Heartbreaking - Flame Away or Discuss

[luvthatduke]

IMHO this woman is a prime example of the argument
for forced sterilization - at the very least any child she bears
should be taken away 30 seconds after birth, and the State
needs to explain why ALL of the children were not removed.


Pregnant Mother Of 14 Accused Of Hitting Kids With Belt, Fists
January 27, 2006

MILWAUKEE -- A pregnant woman is in custody after police said they found three of her 14 children taking refuge in an abandoned house in Milwaukee.

Police spokeswoman Anne Schwartz said the 9-year-old twin boys and a 6-year-old boy had scars and bruising to their backs, buttocks and faces.

The 35-year-old woman's six oldest children had been previously removed from her home by child welfare officials.
The remaining eight have since been removed.
The children range in age from 3 to 20.
Ummm...Why didn't they take them all? Why did they leave EIGHT??

The three were found Thursday night in an abandoned house in Milwaukee. Police said the children had created a "safe house" where they'd go to escape their mother's beatings.

Authorities said the floor was covered with garbage and feces.

The three children found in the abandoned house told police their mother regularly punches them with her fist and hits them with belts and a broomstick.
Police said there had been complaints about the woman since 1997
related to the care of the children.

Police said she was arrested in 2000 accused of punching an 11-year-old son in the face, but the district attorney didn't prosecute.

Milwaukee Alderman Michael McGee was upset that no one knew
-- that the children didn't feel they had anyone to turn to.
"These young people had needs, and nobody knew about it. Somebody at school, some adult in their life -- there should be some connection with these young people so they know that somebody's there for them," McGee said.

 

[tiggersmom2]

I could never condone sterilization but this woman needs all of her children taken and any future ones taken at birth!

 

[Aidensmom]

As someone who grew up in similar circumstances, this just makes me sad. I just pray for those children, that they know there is a God who loves them and that not everyone wants to hurt them.

And I can theorize why not all children were taken. In my family, I was the oldest and "to blame" for everything my siblings did for "not being a good enough example". Nothing ever happened to my siblings until I moved out. They only removed those children that had actually been abused at the time, not thinking that the others would be "replacements."

 

[Stacerita]

Its just sad and sickening. I feel for those poor children. My only hope is that this so-called-mom gets exactly what she deserves. What goes around comes around and kicks you in the a**.

 

[tiggersmom2]

As someone who grew up in similar circumstances, this just makes me sad. I just pray for those children, that they know there is a God who loves them and that not everyone wants to hurt them.

And I can theorize why not all children were taken. In my family, I was the oldest and "to blame" for everything my siblings did for "not being a good enough example". Nothing ever happened to my siblings until I moved out. They only removed those children that had actually been abused at the time, not thinking that the others would be "replacements."

I love you sweetie....God definitely had a plan for you and I am a much better person for having you in my life.

 

[luvthatduke]

As someone who grew up in similar circumstances, this just makes me sad. I just pray for those children, that they know there is a God who loves them and that not everyone wants to hurt them.

And I can theorize why not all children were taken. In my family, I was the oldest and "to blame" for everything my siblings did for "not being a good enough example". Nothing ever happened to my siblings until I moved out. They only removed those children that had actually been abused at the time, not thinking that the others would be "replacements."

Wow, Aidensmom, I am so sorry you lived through this kind of thing!
eta: That didn't sound right.
I'm glad you lived, I'm just very sorry this was part of your life

Your last part about replacements is exactly why the State's
action/non-action is making me nuts!
I would automatically assume, if I was a DYFS worker,
that any child left in the home would be worse off??

 

[barkley]

Wow, Aidensmom, I am so sorry you lived through this kind of thing!
eta: That didn't sound right.
I'm glad you lived, I'm just very sorry this was part of your life

Your last part about replacements is exactly why the State's
action/non-action is making me nuts!
I would automatically assume, if I was a DYFS worker,
that any child left in the home would be worse off??

unfortunatly the laws are not written such that the workers can do what they many times believe is the moraly correct thing. i knew many a worker that entered the field to help children and found that the laws prevented them from doing so. they opted to go into other lines (advocacy, counseling) where they felt they might be able to work to change those laws.

 

[bettyann29]

wow .. very sad..

 

[maps]

I once called DCYS and spent an hour on the phone trying to report what I felt was an abuse/neglect issue. They told me that if there was no direct evidence that anything occured they could do nothing about it. I said I was trying to PREVENT it from occcuring. Sorry, nothing we can do. Once it happens, call us back. !!!!???

 

[PrincessKitty1]

As someone who grew up in similar circumstances, this just makes me sad. I just pray for those children, that they know there is a God who loves them and that not everyone wants to hurt them.

And I can theorize why not all children were taken. In my family, I was the oldest and "to blame" for everything my siblings did for "not being a good enough example". Nothing ever happened to my siblings until I moved out. They only removed those children that had actually been abused at the time, not thinking that the others would be "replacements."

I think your experience is not unusual. Parents do pick target children to bear the brunt of the abuse.

 

[Caradana]

Sounds like there was alcohol/drug addiction involved in that story, eh?

 

[msdznyduck]

NYC just had a case that not surprisingly made the national news....Nixzmary Brown..........poor baby. I can't imagine what that poor child went through. Her mother was (I think) 28 years old, and had 6 children, the oldest 9. (Nixzmary was 7) In the days after her murder, the brother of her 'father' (I think it was her stepfather) said he didn't know what happened.....he,(the father) was "such a great guy, he just hit her with the belt, "like everyone does", just hit her too hard." GIVE ME A BREAK!!! Not EVERYONE uses that to punish someone. The problem is that some people just think that there is nothing wrong with this kind of behavior.

 

[J.C.&ALI'SMOM]

The question of sterilize/not sterilize wouldn't have to be raised if she was where she belongs, in jail...

I work in the public schools and we have some "families" that have more and more children who they eventually give to others to raise, can't keep clean/healthy, have shown signs of abuse/neglect. They have more because their checks aren't as much as when they had the ones that were taken/given away... If they have one that has disabilities/gets SSI, you better be sure that child will stay in the home.

 

[kilee]

My MIL regularly beat my dh w/ a broom and shoes to the head when he did something wrong. She would literally put a shoe or slipper over her hand and use it to hit in the back of the head repeatedly. She was still doing this recently to her bf's kids that live w/ them until they moved out because of it. We didn't know until we found out why they moved out. My dh grew up thinking this was they way things were handled, and that everyone was punished this way- because ironically he had a friend who's father was even more violent.

Just a side note-- my dh has been in my son's lives for 9 yrs now and he's never once laid a hand on him in anyway. He does know this isn't the right way things are handled now as an adult. But he said as a child and early teen he didn't think anything of it. To me it's amazing he still talks to his mom.

 

[PrincessKitty1]

If they have one that has disabilities/gets SSI, you better be sure that child will stay in the home.

Yes, I'm a pediatric nurse, and we see that all the time--people who won't take proper care of their disabled kids but won't give them up because of the SSI. Between SSI, Section 8 housing, foodstamps, etc., their disabled child allows them to not have to work for a living. It's shameful that this goes on. The $$$ from SSI isn't even very much--we see whole families living on their child's $660 per month SSI check.

 

[kilee]

How in the world could a whole family live on $660 per month???? The quality of life must not be the best.

 

[PrincessKitty1]

How in the world could a whole family live on $660 per month???? The quality of life must not be the best.

The small city I live in is surrounded by unbelievably poor rural areas (there are also very poor residents in my city, but the rural areas are shockingly poor). The quality of life is not good--I made home visits as part of a birth-to-3 developmental program as a nurse AND I did home care as an occupational therapist in geriatrics so I've seen the poverty of both ends of the age spectrum. Kids who don't have a single toy, not even an 8-pack of crayons. Families who are hungry.

So having a disabled child may be the only source of permanent income for a family (what used to be called "welfare" is now tapered off over a period of a few years in Florida). Having a disabled child and qualifying for SSI opens up other benefits, such as subsidized housing, food stamps, and Medicaid.

Please don't misunderstand me--many very poor people take WONDERFUL care of their families, disabled or otherwise, to the very best of their abilities. Until I went into nursing, though, I NEVER believed women had babies for the $$. The amount of money they get from the social services or disability systems is pitiful. The sad truth is that there are plenty of people out there who either are not capable of supporting themselves or don't want to, and there children are their income.

 

[barkley]

Yes, I'm a pediatric nurse, and we see that all the time--people who won't take proper care of their disabled kids but won't give them up because of the SSI. Between SSI, Section 8 housing, foodstamps, etc., their disabled child allows them to not have to work for a living. It's shameful that this goes on. The $$$ from SSI isn't even very much--we see whole families living on their child's $660 per month SSI check.

if the entire family is living off the ssi either they are grossly uniformed about what else they may be eligible to or (and this is often the case) they are refusing to comply with the regulations to receive public assistance for the remainder of the family.

ssi is based on both the disability of the child and the parent's income/assetts (alot of which are exempt from consideration). the parents (if both are in the house and unemployed/underemployed) as well as their other children would likely be eligible to afdc (and the ssi is not counted to reduce the grant). if one of the parents needs to be home to care for the disabled child that parent would be excused from any work requirement, the second parent (if any) would be required to participate in a work program (either a job or if they lack skills/educations/training-a program that will provide these). that would also make both the parents and the other kids eligible to non cost medical care. if the family is truly in financial need there is financial aide available.

there are families that truly struggle with this-i however saw families with financial circumstances (all from forms of public assistance) whose were far bettter "set" than the average american.

example: for a family of say 5 (mom, dad, 1 disabled child, 2 non disabled children)-receive 600 ssi
receive 650 afdc (aprox varies from state to state on budgeting)
income 250 (not all earnings are counted as job incentive)
f-stamps300.

o.k so 1800.00 per month does not seem like much for a family of 5, but when you also consider that their rent (section 8) may be only 5% of thier income per month, they are receiving full pay/free childcare for the other children, their children receive free lunches (some school free breakfast), they have no medical expences, receive as much as a 40% utility discount, and depending on the ages of the children WIC program may be further providing vouchers for free food (milks, cheese, beans, cereals...). and these are BASIC benefits (if any work supplies or uniforms are required of the employed parent they may be eligible for full reimbursement/or a clothing allowance, the children may be eligible to yearly stipends for school supplies, if they have older applicances that are not energy efficient some utiltiy companies will trade (no cost) them for new energy efficient models, free camperships for kids, waived tuition at community colleges...).

those states that do have programs that taper off the afdc for families generaly do it only for the parents-the children remain eligible. adult individuals with children in their homes who are deemed unable to work continue to qualify for public assistance-they are exempted from time limitations and work program participation (and if they have a disability that would likely result in their eligibility to ssi-they will be assisted in making applications, securing documentation (even having medical appointments schedualed for them, taking them to and from appointments) and be provided free legal assistance should any need for an appeal come up.

the truly disadvataged unable to work adult is one without a child to link them to the services/funds/medical treatment programs. this is why many women choose to continue having children (i saw far too many who would plan a pregnancy as their youngest neared 18 to "lock in" another 18 year "safety net"

 

[TnKrBeLlA012]

The one thing in life I hate the most is when people abuse children. Children are so innocent. To hurt a child ranks with killers in my book. One question I ask myself as a person of faith. Why are children allowed to be abused in any way?

 

[luvthatduke]

The question of sterilize/not sterilize wouldn't have to be raised if she was where she belongs, in jail...

True statement.
I'm not really an advocate, per se, of sterilization,
it's just when there are this many children involved w/one woman,
it doesn't matter a hill of beans to me what led her to
these circumstances - she needs to be stopped!

o.k so 1800.00 per month does not seem like much for a family of 5, but when you also consider that their rent (section 8) may be only 5% of thier income per month, they are receiving full pay/free childcare for the other children, their children receive free lunches (some school free breakfast), they have no medical expences, receive as much as a 40% utility discount, and depending on the ages of the children WIC program may be further providing vouchers for free food (milks, cheese, beans, cereals...). and these are BASIC benefits (if any work supplies or uniforms are required of the employed parent they may be eligible for full reimbursement/or a clothing allowance, the children may be eligible to yearly stipends for school supplies, if they have older applicances that are not energy efficient some utiltiy companies will trade (no cost) them for new energy efficient models, free camperships for kids, waived tuition at community colleges...)...

snip...
the truly disadvataged unable to work adult is one without a child to link them to the services/funds/medical treatment programs. this is why many women choose to continue having children (i saw far too many who would plan a pregnancy as their youngest neared 18 to "lock in" another 18 year "safety net".

I'd have to use up a whole row of 'negative' smilies to even
begin to describe my reaction to this!