Heart Murmur in Kitten

[robinb]

Edit, update on page 3.

Have you ever had a cat with a heart murmur? If so, what happened with the cat? Did your cat outgrow it? Did you have an echocardiogram? Do you give your cat medication?

We are a two cat household. My boy, Peter, is 13 and we euthanized my other kitty Ponyo in April because of a fast growing tumor on her face which came back after surgery. I have been on the waitlist for a special breed kitten since early last summer. It's a pretty rare breed and there are less than 3,000 of them in the US. I have had this breed for the past 20+ years because I find my allergies are better with them because they only have a single coat. Both Peter and Ponyo and my previous 3 cats were all this breed. The breeder is very reputable with nearly 40 years of breeding and well known in the cat show world. Many of her cats and their prodigy are Grand Champions and many other breeders trace their cats to this cattery. A litter was born in November with a short haired male kitten (finally!) and I was given first choice since I had been waiting so long. I selected a very cute kitten with blue eyes. The breeder encouraged me to name him last week so she can start to use his real name while raising him.

The breeder just contacted me to let me know that my 6 week old kitten not only weighed 6 oz less than his brother, but that she also thinks he has a medium grade heart murmur . I am so bummed. She said that about 50% of the kittens with a heart murmur outgrow it at 4-8 months and my research confirms that. But my research has also said that "stunted growth" is a sign that the heart murmur that is caused by a structural heart disease or an extracardiac problem. Cats with that kind of heart murmur do not grow out of it and they may need ongoing medical treatment. She told me that she's had 5 kittens with a heart murmur in 40 years: 3 outgrew it, 1 had an echocardiogram and his heart was fine and the 5th died when he was about 1 years old. She has not taken he kitten to the vet yet since her regular vet is on vacation until mid-February.

The breeder has offered me various options, including keeping the one I selected at a discount with a 7-year health guarantee (replacement) or taking a kitten from another litter that I had also shown previous interest in (a solid smoke color cat with green eyes, born late December) or a combination of both (BOGO kittens).

I am so all over the place on this. The breed, in general, is not known for cardiomyopathy or heart problems. So the odds that it *is* something bad is low. Then again, I don't want to have a "special needs" cat that needs medical treatment and medications the rest of his life. Like many here on the DIS, we like to travel and having a cat that needs the administration of medication makes it harder to find pet sitters. OTOH, that face. He's so darn cute and someone has to take care of him.

That face (at 4 weeks):


To add another twist to all of this, the breeder would like me to make the choice of whether I want the smoke kitten from the 2nd litter by next week. They are starting to get inquiries on that kitten and the breeder would like to place him with someone else if I don't want him. I am thinking of telling the breeder to still hold the second smoke kitten for me until the white kitten actually sees a vet who can professionally diagnose the intensity and location of the heart murmur.

Any advise? Experience with cats with heart murmurs? Thanks all.

 

[Lynne G]

Well, if it were me, I’d take known healthy cat. Would hate to have the kitten die, after you opened your home and heart to enjoying the cat.

With heart issues, you are taking a chance the cat may not lead a long life or need care, with a shortened life. I know a friend had a dog with that issue at birth. It died at 5 years old with a heart attack.

Even though a good breeder, with known heart issues in her past litters, that would give me pause to take a known heart issue cat.

 

[#1hoosierfan]

Our 11 year old cat developed a heart murmur. He had to have a kitty cat EKG before he got his teeth cleaned. It does not affect is health on a day to day basis and he does not take any medication at this time.

Not sure what I would personally do in your situation. Im glad it sounds like the breeder wants to find it a good home. I work in animal rescue and the number of breeders that take puppies to the vet for euthanasia due to oftentimes treatable problems is heartbreaking.

I'm being nosey, so you don't have to answer if you don't want to. What kind of cat is it that you are getting from a breeder? Cats are a dime a dozen where I live. We have 3 of our own. We adopted one from the shelter and 2 were given to us by people that were giving them away for free.

 

[tinkerbellandpeterpan]

I definitely think it is reasonable that you wait until you have further information from the vet. It only makes sense that you make a decision after you hear the vet's opinions/recommendations. I don't think it is fair to expect you to make a decision without all the facts.

Best of luck to you! You sound like a really dedicated and caring pet owner so I wish you all the best with whichever kitty you end up bringing home.

 

[robinb]

I'm being nosey, so you don't have to answer if you don't want to. What kind of cat is it that you are getting from a breeder? Cats are a dime a dozen where I live. We have 3 of our own. We adopted one from the shelter and 2 were given to us by people that were giving them away for free.

I'll share with you privately. I am a cat person who is very allergic to "dime a dozen" cats. I've had some non-purebred cats in the past and they are night and day for me compared to my favorite breed. I'm also allergic to dogs. After having an Akita for 16 years who "blew her coat" twice a year leaving me in swollen-eyed misery most of the time, I swore to only have dogs that don't shed and need to be groomed. We've had a standard poodle and now we have a Maltese/Poodle cross.

 

[leahgoogle]

We had a cat that had a heart murmur as a kitten and he did not grow out of it. It did not affect his everyday life and he did not need ongoing care. He was not a pure bred cat. He ended up throwing a blood clot when he was 10 years old and couldn't walk so we euthanized him. My mom has had two cat with heart murmurs who both threw clots and passed on their own. They were between 7 and 10 years old. It's a hard decision. Our vet said 10 years was a long life for a cat with a true heart murmur.

 

[robinb]

Well, if it were me, I’d take known healthy cat. Would hate to have the kitten die, after you opened your home and heart to enjoying the cat.

With heart issues, you are taking a chance the cat may not lead a long life or need care, with a shortened life. I know a friend had a dog with that issue at birth. It died at 5 years old with a heart attack.

Even though a good breeder, with known heart issues in her past litters, that would give me pause to take a known heart issue cat.

I appreciate your response. Taking only the healthy smoke kitten is certainly on my mind.

I do want to say that I don't believe the breeder really has "known heart issues in her past litters". That makes it sound like her kittens have heart murmurs all the time. She's been breeding for nearly 40 years, so that averages 1 kitten every 8 years. Since she has multiple litters per year, the percentage of kittens born with a murmur is really low. I think she was sharing her experience with me to show me that 4 out of 5 kittens went on to live happy and full lives.

 

[tinkerbellandpeterpan]

I appreciate your response. Taking only the healthy smoke kitten is certainly on my mind.

I do want to say that I don't believe the breeder really has "known heart issues in her past litters". That makes it sound like her kittens have heart murmurs all the time. She's been breeding for nearly 40 years, so that averages 1 kitten every 8 years. Since she has multiple litters per year, the percentage of kittens born with a murmur is really low. I think she was sharing her experience with me to show me that 4 out of 5 kittens went on to live happy and full lives.

Not that my opinion counts for much, but I didn't get the impression the breeder has a history of heart issues with her cats. Just that she had experiences with 5 kittens and what the outcomes were to give you an idea of what to expect. Over the course of 40 years, I wouldn't say she breeds with known heart issues. Heart defects just happen from time to time.

 

[LSUmiss]

Is the breed known for this issue? I have a ragdoll & they’re known for heart & kidney issues so my breeder does testing on the parents b/c it’s genetic. So I wouldn’t take a ragdoll kitten with health issues. But it’s not a heart murmur so rhe issues are definitely not something they grow out of.

 

[robinb]

Is the breed known for this issue? I have a ragdoll & they’re known for heart & kidney issues so my breeder does testing on the parents b/c it’s genetic. So I wouldn’t take a ragdoll kitten with health issues. But it’s not a heart murmur so rhe issues are definitely not something they grow out of.

No, the breed is not known for heart problems. I have heard of a blood test that can be done before and echocardiogram. Is that the test done on the parents? I've also read where all cats of certain breeds, like Ragdolls, are recommended to have an echo.

 

[Imzadi]

But my research has also said that "stunted growth" is a sign that the heart murmur that is caused by a structural heart disease or an extracardiac problem. Cats with that kind of heart murmur do not grow out of it and they may need ongoing medical treatment.

The breed, in general, is not known for cardiomyopathy or heart problems. So the odds that it *is* something bad is low.

She's been breeding for nearly 40 years, so that averages 1 kitten every 8 years. Since she has multiple litters per year, the percentage of kittens born with a murmur is really low.

Robin, it seems like you are trying so hard to hope/convince yourself that the odds are low that the heart murmur may not be much of a problem. Yet, you DO know one thing already, the kitten is exhibiting signs of stunted growth. So, whatever the "odds" are, that is a real fact now.

You also don't mention how much funds you have available to take care of a special needs cat, if it turns out it IS a special needs cat. Will you and your family be willing to divert funds from vacationing and traveling if this cat has special needs? Or to pay for special care when you go away? Will this curtail the amount of traveling you may do, if the cat needs more care than you planned on? How will that impact the rest of the family and will they be alright with that?

Most importantly, how much is the price to your heart, if you lose this cat early? You're already attached on one level, due to the "cuteness" factor, before you even have this cat at home. I lost a 12 year old cat back in 2015 due to cancer. It shredded my heart to have to put her down. And I did everything I could to get her treatments before doing that. I haven't been able to get a cat since because the thought of having to do that with another cat is too great for me.

I frankly don't know how other people are able to go through that with multiple animals. When one picks a pet, you are also picking the end day you when you will have to say goodbye. We just don't know when that date is. But, it's an eventuality. Choosing a cat with known issues, may mean that date is sooner than later. Can your heart handle that?

As much as it seems that your choices are limited right now, they aren't. You may decide to pass on the healthy smoke kitten in favor of waiting for some test results, only to find they are bad, and you decide to pass on the heart murmur kitty, for any number of reasons. I would think this breeder would put you at the head of the line when her next round of kittens comes along? It may seem like a long wait now. But if you end up with a healthy kitty then, which you get lots of joyful years to spend together, and travel and do other things, this waiting time will be short. As that new cat, who isn't even born yet, was meant to be with you.

Or your heart may tell you to get the heart murmur kitten anyway. You are going in with eyes and heart open, even if the time together may be short. Yet, you know in your heart it's the right decision.

I say, instead of focusing on which of these kittens to choose from. Meditate/pray on you getting the right kitten MEANT to be YOUR cat. It may be one of these. It may be a different opportunity. In my experience, when you do that, your right cat will come to you and you will KNOW it.

It could even turn out that you pass on the healthy smoke kitten, it goes to someone else. You wait and find out the results of the stunted, heart murmur kitty is not good. Then by some strange fluke of "luck" the healthy smoke kitten ends up coming back to the breeder. And suddenly that one is yours!

Again, in my experience, asking/focusing on YOUR right kitten will bring the energies, opportunities and results for that to happen. Often times, the Universe will surprise you in very unexpected ways. But, the point will be: you will KNOW when it's your right kitten. There will be no doubt, like you are having now.

 

[LSUmiss]

No, the breed is not known for heart problems. I have heard of a blood test that can be done before and echocardiogram. Is that the test done on the parents? I've also read where all cats of certain breeds, like Ragdolls, are recommended to have an echo.

Yeah they did blood tests & echo on the parents.

 

[QueenIsabella]

A couple stories that might or might not help you:

We had a cat with a heart murmur. It was discovered long after he'd become a member of the family. We even took him to a heart specialist an hour away for extra tests. He was a big cat--15 or more pounds, and definitely lazier/less energy than even a regular cat (saying something!). But, he was also a great cat--absolutely wonderful with babies, sweet, a cuddler. He died at age 13 of kidney failure.

We also had a cat who tested positive for FIV as a kitten. The theory was that it was antibodies from his mom, but we wrestled with what to do, especially since we had other cats (who were vaccinated, but still...). He ended up living to be 15 with nary a symptom. He eventually died of a brain tumor.

So, there's no way to know. If you feel that you can't give this kitten the home/love/care it deserves, that doesn't make you a bad person. You have to do what you feel is right for your circumstances.

 

[princesscinderella]

I’d say get the one you want but get pet insurance as a hedge against large vet bills. We had a Boston that ended up having hydrocephalus and only lived to be 2 1/2. She lost the use of her back legs and went downhill really fast after that where we had to make the decision to euthanize. It was more difficult but I loved her so much and we gave her the best life possible so I have no regrets. Pet insurance was the best decision I made for her as they reimbursed most of my expenses, even seeing a pet eye and neuro specialist. The neuro wanted to do surgery to put a shunt in her brain to help with the fluid buildup but it wouldn’t help with the progressive neuropathy she was having in her back legs so we opted to just keep her comfortable.

 

[leahgoogle]

I’d say get the one you want but get pet insurance as a hedge against large vet bills. We had a Boston that ended up having hydrocephalus and only lived to be 2 1/2. She lost the use of her back legs and went downhill really fast after that where we had to make the decision to euthanize. It was more difficult but I loved her so much and we gave her the best life possible so I have no regrets. Pet insurance was the best decision I made for her as they reimbursed most of my expenses, even seeing a pet eye and neuro specialist. The neuro wanted to do surgery to put a shunt in her brain to help with the fluid buildup but it wouldn’t help with the progressive neuropathy she was having in her back legs so we opted to just keep her comfortable.

I agree with the pet insurance, but make sure it would cover any heart issues especially since it might be considered a pre-existing ailment.

 

[AprilsZoo]

Can the breeder basically keep you as “first up” to choose a new kitten from a subsequent litter if the vet says this kitten’s heart has a defect? (Call this option #4)

If you like the smoke kitten too, you could go with option #3 (BOGO). Although, to me, it seems odd that the breeder is offering such rare (and, I assume, expensive?) kittens as 2 for 1.

I wouldn’t be too concerned with the number of kittens having murmurs. As long as they are “functional murmurs”— that is, the kittens outgrow them, and there’s no associated heart defect— then those are no different than a child with an innocent murmur. Sometimes it’s just one of those things, where the heart just needs to get bigger.

If there’s really only been one true defect in 40 years, that’s extremely low— even lower than what would be statistically expected. Proving that the breeder is breeding very selectively to avoid known defects, which probably has the effect of lowering the risk of other sorts of anomalies as well.

 

[Boopuff]

We had our lovable Boo (my signature honors him). He had a heart Murmmer. He lived to 10, sadly he had a stroke. His litter mste lived until 17

 

[PollyannaMom]

I've had two cats with slight murmurs - one lived to be 16, and one is currently 13 with no special needs. But they were/are both "mutts" - I don't know if purebreds are more at risk.

(I'm also biased because I have a slight heart murmur myself, and no limitations.)

Like you, I would be somewhat worried about care needs when on vacation, but if finances weren't an issue, I'd probably find a way around that. I would be more worried that nobody would take him if I didn't.

The breeder is probably offering the deals because she's also afraid nobody will want him. I'd be tempted to take the "BOGO", but would probably opt for the discount/guarantee of another cat if something tragic happens far too early.

 

[Pea-n-Me]

Well the kitten is here, and has to live somewhere. Part of the question, I think, is where will he be best off? Maybe he’s one for the breeder to keep, idk.

That said, when I was struggling to start a family, I talked to a lot of people with experience in these matters and one of the things that came up that I never forgot was: You can have a perfect child and something can happen that makes them not perfect. With a living being, there are never any guarantees. So you could get the other cat and have something happen to him, meanwhile heart murmur kitty is sailing along nicely…

I, personally, would always be thinking of the “what if’s”. I take the other cat and spend years wondering if I made the right choice. It could go the other way, too. So you really just have to go with your gut and your heart.

I also wonder if you could ask if the breeder could watch him when you go away, should there be special needs or medications.

I think what I would do, since you’ve seemingly fallen in love with him already, is sort of bypass the middle (vet) man and ask if you can take him to see a veterinary cardiologist directly to get their opinion. If they say he’ll be generally ok but small, then you have a small cat! (If you can live with that. I see so many three legged pets and those with permanent injuries and scars, sometimes it makes them more endearing.)

Btw, who diagnosed the murmur, the breeder? Maybe it’s not so. I would definitely wait to see what the vet has to say before I make any final decisions either way.

Good luck. He is a cutie!

 

[TipsyTraveler]

My logical mind says to take the healthy kitten. Because, duh.

Then there’s my real mind who says I should take both because I both want a healthy kitten and because I know how these things go. And, how they “go” is, that heart murmur kitten will most likely be quietly euthanized if you don’t take him. That breeder wouldn’t normally make her “mistakes” known, but you had already claimed that kitten, so that’s why she had to tell you about his medical condition.

I ended up with a collie this way. I worked at a veterinary referral practice and a “totally reputable, breeds show dogs, editor of Collie Fancy Magazine (or something to that effect)” brought in 17 eight-week old puppies. Sixteen were there for opthomology exams, one was there for euthanasia because she had an overbite. Otherwise, completely healthy. My coworker begged for this breeder to not kill the puppy and agreed to sign paperwork signing over ownership, swearing she would never make it known whose genetic line this “dud” had come from. Another stipulation was that, if my coworker ever changed her mind at any point and decided she didn’t want the dog, she would return her to the breeder to be euthanized. I pet sat the puppy while my coworker was out of town the following weekend. Once she was back, she decided she didn’t want the dog after all so, after a failed attempt to find her a new home, I kept her for the rest of her life until she died of natural causes, rather than send her back to the breeder to be euthanized for an overbite.

If you have the time, money, and heart to take on a special needs kitten then that’s what I would encourage, because he’s not likely to have another option once you pass him up. Sorry to lay the guilt trip on you. The good news is, sometimes these medical issues don’t require as much care as they are predicted to, IME.