having second thoughts...

[Revtel]

Thanks for the honest and helpful comments.

We've been with DVC for 12 years now, and for us, the cost of travelling, even with DVC points, is becoming prohibitive (and poor value)

Our 300 OKW points cost us around £1000 (and rising) each year in dues. The cost for my wife and I to travel is another £1000, and we would reckon on paying another £1000 on additional stuff - car parking, car hire, meals etc. We don't do the parks any more.

Anyway, that's around £3000 for a two week trip, admittedly in quality accommodation, but still OTT. This year, we just booked two weeks in Mexico, Riviera Maya in May. Five star, all inclusive, unlimited drinks and food, right on the beach, and we get change from £2000. Not only that, but I can now rent my OKW points and cover the holiday cost that way.

OK, we don't get to experience the Disney magic, but we need to be realistic. I think WDW is pricing itself out the market for many ordinary Brits.

 

[dixonsontour]

It is the cost of flights that has really bumped up the cost for us. A few years ago about £300 a flight was our limit but now the additional taxes make them so much more expensive. Plus personally for us DD has stated school and school hol flights are so much dearer. £500 a flight is now my 'norm'.

I am in awe of families with several children who manage to go. One of the main reasons we have managed to go so often is DD is an only child.

I still think the accomodation prices and eating out in florida are good value and good standard. It's just the cost of getting there.

 

[joolz1910]

I have been watching prices since 2009 as we plan to go in 2012. The increases are scaring me. I keep cutting out things to keep the trip within budget but the total cost is still making me feel

 

[wideeyes]

No, you can't put a price on memories however personally I don't believe that I need to spend thousands of pounds on a holiday to create these happy memories.

 

[disneyholic family]

ok, now i think i'm shocked....
many of the posters in this thread - me included - are died in the wool WDW fans!
and yet many of us are seriously considering giving up our WDW holidays.....or at least having second thoughts....

i really hope someone in disney is reading these posts.....if they are at all interested in the UK market, they should be concerned....

 

[2Tiggies]

ok, now i think i'm shocked....
many of the posters in this thread - me included - are died in the wool WDW fans!
and yet many of us are seriously considering giving up our WDW holidays.....or at least having second thoughts....

i really hope someone in disney is reading these posts.....if they are at all interested in the UK market, they should be concerned....

I don't think it's any loss of loyalty towards Disney. WDW will always tug at the heartstrings of the true fans. I think for many it is becoming a case of being realistic though. It's all very well to go without a social life, not buy new things for the house, make do with the clothes you have - but when it gets to a point where you have to choose between mortgage (or rent) arrears and cutting out a meal a day I think most will agree that they have hit the threshhold.

Like you, I also noticed deep discounts for the value resorts. We stayed at ASMu in 2009 and while a mod/deluxe is more comfy, we really enjoyed ourselves that trip and I would stay at a value again if savings were significant enough. A 30% discount on a value resort, out of peak season is VERY cheap!! We don't get that. If we don't want our free dining, they don't offer a cut in the resort price as an alternative. I think holiday companies, Disney included, have marketed the 'typical' holidays for 'typical' families. For example and 'normal' family is 2 adults and 2 children under, say 12. That, by today's standards is not the norm. As far as I'm concerned, it's the ideal. There are many single parent families, families where one parent has remarried or has a relationship with someone who has thier own children and now has a family of 7 ..... And a 'typical' holiday used to be a package with everything included. While this is still fairly popular, I think your regular Disney goers tend not to do this because it IS a pricier holiday and you CAN cut back if you are willing to do a bit of the work yourself.

What is needed is a change in the way that packages, discounts and deals are structured and more flexibility in the way in which they are marketed.

Yes, you are quite correct in that the UK is seen as a valued market from Disney's point of view.

The average American family goes to Disney for 4-7 days. The do NOT always buy park hoppers.

The average British guest visits for 14 days, some for 7, but also some for 21. Even the most frugal person staying at WDW for 3 weeks is going to spend substantially more there than the guest there for a week.

I won't stop going, but it may mean waiting a little longer between trips. I refuse to give it up entirely. To tell me I can't have something is usually my assurance that I WILL have it Or maybe someone in Florida will think I'm a lovely person and ask me to stay there .....

 

[wayneg]

Just had a look at cost of 14 day price rise since its introduction in 2005, back then it cost approx £160, now £224. converted into $'s (what Disney recieve)
£160 in Aug 2005 rate was approx $1.80 = $288
£226 today at $1.59 = $359

A $71 or 25% rise in 6 years, approx 3.5% year on year increase.

I dislike price rises as much as anyone but looking at it from a business point of view I would expect their operating costs over the past 6 years to have increased way beyond 3.5%/year, I know mine have(subtantially more)

For the hotel side of it they are trying to go down the free dining route instead of discounting, although they are trying the discounts as well. 3 years ago I said no more onsite after 9 night ASmovies & 3 nights AKL(over 15 years of visiting) by end of this August we will have spent 53 nights at OKW(over last 3 years) plus we are taking relatives this year for their 1st visit, that adds another 14 days onsite.

While Disney are obviously losing some customers going by this thread they are also attracting others.

So much goes into the mix for affordability, living costs at home, flight prices (incl tax rises) etc, yes Disney are a part of it but they are a business and have to make money, UK travellers only being a part of its income, can they do more? do they want to do more? I don't know.

 

[UKDEB]

Overall visitor numbers to Orlando dropped 4.7% in 2009. By far the biggest drop was in the UK market where numbers fell 13.3% to 831,000 (from 959,000 in 2008). A further drop of 12.4% to 790,000 is predicted for 2010. Whilst there's no doubt that the UK market is a key one to Orlando, we account for less than 2% of the total visitor volume (which was 46.5 million in 2009). [The UK's share of the international visitors statistic has declined from 35% in 2000 to 25% in 2009.] However, total US arrivals from the UK were down 14.6% in 2009, and Orlando's share of the total actually increased.

So, in summary, it seems that Orlando is more than holding its own in a depressed UK visitor market. What we don't know, though, is whether Disney is managing to keep its share of total visitors to Central Florida. My guess is that its attendance is down, but more likely due to the lure of WWoHP, than to any hike in its own prices.

Fascinating topic.

 

[disneyholic family]

Just had a look at cost of 14 day price rise since its introduction in 2005, back then it cost approx £160, now £224. converted into $'s (what Disney recieve)
£160 in Aug 2005 rate was approx $1.80 = $288
£226 today at $1.59 = $359

A $71 or 25% rise in 6 years, approx 3.5% year on year increase.

I dislike price rises as much as anyone but looking at it from a business point of view I would expect their operating costs over the past 6 years to have increased way beyond 3.5%/year, I know mine have(subtantially more)

For the hotel side of it they are trying to go down the free dining route instead of discounting, although they are trying the discounts as well. 3 years ago I said no more onsite after 9 night ASmovies & 3 nights AKL(over 15 years of visiting) by end of this August we will have spent 53 nights at OKW(over last 3 years) plus we are taking relatives this year for their 1st visit, that adds another 14 days onsite.

While Disney are obviously losing some customers going by this thread they are also attracting others.

So much goes into the mix for affordability, living costs at home, flight prices (incl tax rises) etc, yes Disney are a part of it but they are a business and have to make money, UK travellers only being a part of its income, can they do more? do they want to do more? I don't know.

yes they do seem to be pushing the free dining 'discount' as well as the regular dining plan even when it's not free...
as a result, they seem to have hiked their food prices - possibly to make the dining plan appear even more attractive...
but for anyone planning a budget stay, the cost of food if they're not on the dining plan is really prohibitive..

i tried pricing a stay at one of the value resorts using the 35% pin code discount i received from them last week.
the resort itself wasn't too bad, but when i worked in the numbers for eating onsite (without a dining plan), the cost of the total onsite holiday went through the roof..

as for the 3.5% rise - i think they've hiked up food prices far more than that...or at least the prices of the snacks i like to eat - which were doubled in price from my last visit 3 years ago to my visit this year. they pushed them up to $4. Not a problem for dining plan guests, but ridiculously expensive for anyone paying out of pocket for those snacks. i know it seems silly to complain about a $4 frozen coke, but what can i say - it does affect my enjoyment when i feel i'm being gouged.

 

[disney_princess_85]

i know it seems silly to complain about a $4 frozen coke, but what can i say - it does affect my enjoyment when i feel i'm being gouged.

We had the same issue in DLP, where they decided to increase the cost of popcorn to €5 over Christmas. It's usually €3! It's disgraceful really, particularly at that time of year when you're already spending a fortune to be there.

 

[wayneg]

I agree Disney are not catering well for the budget traveller but they never have for me, apart from the odd meal onsite I have never paid their TS food or snack prices. CS I still think is reasonably priced for a theme park, costs us about $30 for 3 of us.
I couldn't pay $4 for a frozen drink when they are about 89 cents just outside at the Hess garage(and its larger)
If I am wanting a budget trip it has to be offsite and offsite dining as it will be next month for us.

Disney were holding up in 2009 for visitor numbers, waiting for new report to come out, I suspect a big jump for IOA and not much change in Disney's attendance, maybe a slight drop.
http://www.aecom.com/deployedfiles/.../2009 Theme Index Final 042710_for screen.pdf

 

[disneyholic family]

i just looked up the inflation rate in the US over the past 5 years:
the inflation rate in 2005 was 3.4%
the inflation rate in 2006 was 2.5%
the inflation rate in 2007 was 4.1%
the inflation rate in 2008 was 0.1%
the inflation rate in 2009 was 2.7%
the inflation rate in 2010 was 1.5%

so Disney's 3.5% annual increase Wayne calculated cannot be justified by inflation.

Wayne, was the 3.5%, the increase in the cost of free dining accommodations?
i wonder how much ticket prices have gone up? and food..

 

[disneyholic family]

I agree Disney are not catering well for the budget traveller but they never have for me, apart from the odd meal onsite I have never paid their TS food or snack prices. CS I still think is reasonably priced for a theme park, costs us about $30 for 3 of us.
I couldn't pay $4 for a frozen drink when they are about 89 cents just outside at the Hess garage(and its larger)
If I am wanting a budget trip it has to be offsite and offsite dining as it will be next month for us.

Disney were holding up in 2009 for visitor numbers, waiting for new report to come out, I suspect a big jump for IOA and not much change in Disney's attendance, maybe a slight drop.
http://www.aecom.com/deployedfiles/.../2009 Theme Index Final 042710_for screen.pdf

i know - 89cents for the hess frozen coke that's larger (i bought several of them...i'm addicted )....that's what made it all the more irritating when i bought the pricey disney one....
but i have my rituals....and it is silly to be bothered by $4....i mean, in terms of the total cost of the holiday it's nutty to be bothered by it....

but it does somehow put a damper on things for me....the thing is, i never remember disney being so bad about little stuff like that..
i used to admire the fact that their snacks were cheaper than other parks and entertainment venues....

 

[wayneg]

3.5%/year was just for a 14 day ultimate ticket bought thru UK agents.

Cost of OKW with free DDP has risen from £90/night in 2009 to £100/night in 2010 and upto £118/night this year these are not taking into account cashback.

Taking into account the cashback the increases equate to approx 7% from 09-10 and 17% from 10-11.

We have paid around £114/night this August incl DDP for 3 of us, still think thats good value compared to a budget trip offsite but if they increase by 17% again for 2012 I doubt we will be onsite again. As this thread is showing they are pushing the limits for us all.

Not sure what inflation covers these days but its certainly nothing to do with the running costs of a business.

 

[disneyholic family]

3.5%/year was just for a 14 day ultimate ticket bought thru UK agents.

Cost of OKW with free DDP has risen from £90/night in 2009 to £100/night in 2010 and upto £118/night this year these are not taking into account cashback.

Taking into account the cashback the increases equate to approx 7% from 09-10 and 17% from 10-11.

We have paid around £114/night this August incl DDP for 3 of us, still think thats good value compared to a budget trip offsite but if they increase by 17% again for 2012 I doubt we will be onsite again. As this thread is showing they are pushing the limits for us all.

Not sure what inflation covers these days but its certainly nothing to do with the running costs of a business.

wow! 17% from 2010 to 2011??????
it looked like a large increase....but 17%!!! yikes...
no wonder i was shocked when i was working the numbers..

although £114/night for the 3 of you is definitely still good value....but 17%....wow!!

 

[joolz1910]

I priced up an onsite stay for us, looking at this year's prices:

Family of 2 adults/3 children in October
Flights approx £2500
OKW with free dining and tickets approx £4500 (through Complete Orlando)
That's £7000!

If it increases significantly for 2012, we will have to look at offsite accommodation. I am constantly revising my preferences due to cost. I just hope that I'm not priced out of Disney completely.

 

[Kath2003]

For us, it's not the cost of Disney tickets alone. It's the cost of Disney tickets as a proportion of the total holiday costs and in comparison to other parks.

£239 for 14-days at Disney.
OR
£172 for 14-days of Sea World, Universal, WnW etc.
OR (and this is what keeps us going)
£92 for 14-days of the two Universal Parks.

So, we just do Universal. Simples

We've basically cut it down to the barebones to keep going. In 2010, for 9 nights per person in the school holidays we paid:
£340 flights
£170 hotel
£70 park tickets
£20 transport
£200 food and drinks
TOTAL cost £730 per person in the school

I genuinely don't know how we can cut it down much more to keep going.

 

[UK Princess]

Just got back this morning and trying to stay awake

We're all still in shock from paying more for 5 glasses of Butterbeer than it cost for a whole meal for us all!!!

We were quite lucky in that we were a group of adults (2 couples 3 singles) so the costs are a bit more spread out but if it was one family paying for it all it would be insane. I was also spoilt last time as we stayed onsite with 'free' dining plus we'd done a honeymoon registry so didn't have to think about all the extras but this time it was different.

I still bought a $10 balloon on Main St though

 

[Disneymadhouse]

Oh jeez now i'm worried! I have an abundance of brochures covering xmas 2011 so i know roughly (i hope!) what it will cost for xmas 2012. I have always travelled with VH but am now looking at holiday companies that go to ASMo but with Virgin flights - my best one so far (on 2011 prices) is booking with Thomas cook signature and using virgin flights through them it - was over £500 less than on VH prices!
Just waiting for those preview brochures now!!

 

[disneyholic family]

3.5%/year was just for a 14 day ultimate ticket bought thru UK agents.

Cost of OKW with free DDP has risen from £90/night in 2009 to £100/night in 2010 and upto £118/night this year these are not taking into account cashback.

Taking into account the cashback the increases equate to approx 7% from 09-10 and 17% from 10-11.

We have paid around £114/night this August incl DDP for 3 of us, still think thats good value compared to a budget trip offsite but if they increase by 17% again for 2012 I doubt we will be onsite again. As this thread is showing they are pushing the limits for us all.

Not sure what inflation covers these days but its certainly nothing to do with the running costs of a business.

ok - so i just priced free dining for 2 weeks in august at OKW for 6 of us (3 couples)...

£1,638.00 for one studio (couple #1)
£3,108.00 for a 2 BR suite (couples 2 and 3)
for a total of £4746 for OKW for 14 nights including free dining - that works out to £339/night for 3 rooms and 6 people.....
which is £113/night per room, including free dining......good value for money as Wayne pointed out.

on top of that, we have to add six 14 day ultimate tickets at the disney price of £232/person (total of £1392 for six tickets)

and add on the rental car - that i priced at about £250 for a minivan for 2 weeks

so that's £6388 for hotel, free dining, tickets and car....

that's everything except airfare right?

and airfare for us is about £1,000 per person, so that's another £6,000 for six economy seats

so the total WDW holiday all in will be at least £12,388 for six adults for two weeks at disney (i haven't added in the cost of a night at universal and six 2 day tickets)...

sounds a wee bit pricey....but i really want to do it...this might be the last opportunity for all 6 of us to be together...