Has anyone actually done the math on DDP v. paying OOP?

[Cafeen]

If we used the TiW card:

Breakfast:$67.08 total bill - 20% TiW discount = $53.67...PLUS 18% auto tip = $63.32 cash total OOP
Lunch: $101.92 total bill - 20% TiW discount = $81.54...PLUS 18% auto tip = $96.21 cash total OOP
Dinner $128.99 total bill - 20% TiW discount = $103.92...PLUS 18% auto tip = $121.77 cash total OOP
Snacks, $10 cash, no discount

According to this post on the tipping thread (no, this isn't about the act of tipping, etc, but it is part of the math) the 18% is charged before the discount and tax. Also, the tax is taken off of that same base amount. (Ed: No, it's not. It's taken off of the Discounted price, see retooled example in later post.) Not sure if the prices include tax or not but the calculation would look like:

Ed: Note, the calculation below is incorrect (was based on incorrect assumption), 
see my next post in the thread for the correct one)
------------------------------------
Total = Base - Discount + Tip + Tax

Discount = Base × 0.20
Tip = Base × 0.18
Tax = Base × 0.065

Total = Base – (Base × 0.20) + (Base × 0.18) + (Base × 0.065)

It only changes the values in the original post by a couple of dollars (more if tax wasn't include originally), but it's something to note.

We're going to Disney in the fall (a day AFTER free dining!) and so many people have expressed feelings of "why WOULDN'T you do the dining plan?!?!" to us. We've thought about it a lot, and are confident that not doing the dining plan is the best choice (although if we were getting there a day early to do free dining, I guess we would, but no way would we use all the credits.)

Here's out reasons not to:
-My daughter has a lot of food allergies, and although I know a lot of people have had great experiences with CS, I'm just not there yet. This will be our 1st trip with eating out daily, and that's nerve wracking enough!
-We preferred to stay in a villa (are staying in BLT.) Using the kitchen was great justification for that splurge. We can easily do cereal before we leave, sandwiches for lunch, snacks, etc.
-We are doing 1 meal out a day, and 2 of those (Narcoosee's & Citricos) are 2 TS credits on the dining plan.
-We don't drink soda, and my kids rarely drink juice, so the drink credits would go to waste. My husband & I either drink water or wine / beer / mixed drinks.
-My kids are little (they'll be almost 4 & 2 on the trip) but they like food. A lot. I can't imagine restricting them to the things on the kids' menu. Going to an awesome seafood restaurant and ordering chicken nuggets?! Not for my little foodies.
-We did the math, and our way will save us money. There's no way we'd eat all the TS, drink & snack credits on the meal plan, so it'd also be very wasteful.

Good luck deciding!

And you are a perfect example of my "Get the dining plan to fit your dining, not fit your dining to get the plan" crusade It's tough getting everyone to understand the math behind it, but I figure that if I simplify it down to a statement like that, it'll get the message out that the dining plan will not automatically give you savings (and your example is a good one where OOP/TiW* is much better)

*TiW would be better than pure OOP if you plan to make up the cost of the card in the amount of trips that the card will cover. This may not apply to the quoted trip at all, but just a general notation.

 

[Tricia1972]

Correct except that TiW Tax is not based on the base amount. TiW tax is based on the discounted price.

 

[WINTER]

We can eat cheaper than the DDP. However, this year we are going with the quick service dining plan just because I want to try it out. I bypass a lot of food items on our trips simply to stay 'cheaper' but this year we are splurging a bit and are going to enjoy Disney a bit more. The DDP will allow us to try different things that we normally wouldn't on a vacation to Disney.

 

[DaParkers]

It will be 3 of us on our trip. DW, DS 11, and myself. We've always had free dining, so we never did the "math". We were planning on going this year with free dining, but it wasn't available for our times. Then I got a 40% off pin code for the time that we want to go(late NOV/Early DEC). We also thought about paying for the DDP, but we also have one day tickets from Give a day/Get a day that we can upgrade at the gate, so that factored into our planning also because you have to buy a ticket with the package in order to get the DDP. We would also have to pay rack rates at Pop at $82 a night. So, I did the math. The DDP would have cost us $126 a night for 6 nights which comes up to $756. So, I made a list of the places I would like to eat, including a few that's not on the dining plan like Shula's and Rainforest Cafe. I know. My son wants to eat there. This is how it breaks down.
1. Room $82 x 6= $492 40% $49.20 x 6= $295.20 Savings=$196.80
2. Tickets $234 x 3= $702 Give a Day/Get a Day tickets $79 x 3= $237
$702 - $237= $465 Savings =$237
3. Food DDP $126 x 6=$756 12 meals/6 snacks per person
OOP $900 14 meals/6 snacks per person
Total cost with DDP $1950.00 With Discounts and OOP $1660.20
4. Total savings $289.80

 

[branv]

I agree that if you're the person who will take the dining plan and let that choose how you dine, you will save money.

But I'm not that way, so it's not a savings. We are not frugal on food expenses when we go to WDW (well, except no V&A). We're foodies, so we consider dining part of the experience. We dine whereever sounds best, and we choose the entree that is most appealing regardless of price. Sometimes the entree is the most expensive, sometimes it wasn't...but it was always what sounded yummiest.

So I sat down and figured out the places we'd want to dine next trip, then picked out the foods that would most appeal for meals and snacks (including for TS, appies and dessert). And to be honest, it was probably still a lot more food then we could realistically eat even despite being...errr...well girded. I then picked out what would be covered by the DxDDP and DDP, and compared it to what it would have cost us out of pocket. With the DDP, we would break even, but the DxDDP would have cost us about $50 more than OOP.

I know even if someone just saved a little money or broke even, they would still do the DDP as they consider it easier. I consider it much more restricting. At least every trip we end up cancelling an ADR b/c we don't feel like a big meal, are tired/sick, don't want to leave the area we're in, or whatever. But if we were on the dining plan, we'd know we'd be wasting money to do that and would feel compelled to force ourselves. I love food, but I don't want my whole vacation to answer to the demands of the dining plan. And handing them my key to charge it to the room is the same amount of effort as handing them my key to take off dining credits (though with less finagling with OOP items, etc).

I think there are plenty of people who have done real math and found a savings. I have also seen lots of reports from people who will report all the money they saved while also reporting how much food was left behind on the table. Which isn't just a waste of food, it's a waste of their dining dollars. Hey, if that's what floats their boat, more power to them...but it's not really an honest reflection if you're trying to sell the dining plans as saving money.

 

[Cafeen]

Correct except that TiW Tax is not based on the base amount. TiW tax is based on the discounted price.

Well, now I know! (And knowing is half the battle!)

This won't change the outcome too much at least, but it's good to know for proper calculations.

So, this changes it to:

Total = Base - Discount + Tip + Tax

Discount = Base × 0.20
Tip = Base × 0.18
Tax = (Base – Discount) × 0.065

Total = Base – (Base × 0.20) + (Base × 0.18) + ((Base – (Base × 0.20)) × 0.065)

 

[Mrs. Charming]

I did the math for our family-- DDP was definitely worth it. This time though, we're going to pay OOP for a few character breakfasts, breakfasts are the least expensive of the TS meals!

 

[AirGoofy]

Thanks all. To answer some questions, we are staying for that portion of our trip, four nights.

The dinners I have scheduled are:

Liberty tree Tavern
Garden Grill
Mama Melrose
Boma

There are two adults and one under three. So based upon Cafeen's math, does it seem better to do DDP? I'm so bad with numbers!

OK. So, I pulled the numbers -
And we still (!) haven't factored in your 8 snack credits among you. Basically 7 of your snacks are free. And the 8th, is costing you $1.19.

When I did DP and DxDP, I figured basically the same thing, that if you ordered the same amount of food OOP vs DP, the snacks are included with the same price. DW likes the DP because she does not feel she has to order the cheapest thing on the menu. But, as others have mentioned for original post, if you drink water, bring groceries from home, pack a cooler, split meals, plate share, order cheap things off menu then you can save money OOP.

So, answer your own question - on your Disney vacation, do you want to nickel and dime yourself for "savings". Or, do you want to pre-pay a meal plan (QSDP, TS with ADRs, DxDP), and not worry about the cost.

 

[girls]

So, answer your own question - on your Disney vacation, do you want to nickel and dime yourself for "savings". Or, do you want to pre-pay a meal plan (QSDP, TS with ADRs, DxDP), and not worry about the cost.

I'd disagree with this. As I said early, we REALLY like food. The DxDP would just be too many meals, esp with 2 small children. We felt like the reg. dining plan would either be a waste because we wouldn't use it all or make us eat far less well than we'd normally eat. Looking at the menus of most (I'm sure there are exceptions that I'm unaware of!) CS places, it's not what I'd consider "good food." The buffets don't sounds extremely appealing either. The food that is most appealing to us comes from the signature places, which looking at what we'd order vs the cost of 2 TS, don't seem to be a great way to go. Plus we'd be paying for drinks we'd never consume, and feel like we couldn't order appetizers. Seeing as I already paid the money, I'd feel like I'd need to obsess over actually getting out of the plan what I put in rather than just order what I was & enjoy it.

 

[AirGoofy]

I'd disagree with this. As I said early, we REALLY like food. The DxDP would just be too many meals, esp with 2 small children.

We did the DXDP last week and it is way too much food. Our two dds (8,6) could not eat all their food. Neither DW nor I could eat all the food. But, we never would have tried the different places if we weren't on the DP. We do character breakfasts for the characters and not the buffets, then a signature dining or dinner show (2 TS) in the evening. If hungry for lunch, a poolside snack is a nice option. It was fun eating an ice cream sandwich for lunch.

We have went on DP, DxDP, and OOP. We have also packed a cooler and food and drove to WDW. And, I would wheel the cooler around and fill it up with ice, lug it up and down stairs, eat meals in the room while standing or sitting on the bed because that are not seats for 4 people, unless you drag the chairs in from the balcony. We've ordered meals we thought our children would eat (chicken, burgers, fries) so that we could split it with them instead of ordering what everyone wanted. I spent less money and consumed a lot less calories OOP, but it was not fun. If I am concerned about saving money, then I am not going to WDW for a vacation.

 

[Quacktatty]

I'm actually surprised at the number of people I see getting the Dining Plans. I guess it's because that is totally not how I eat. I don't want dessert at every meal, a lot of times I don't even want an entree! And I definitely never get a dessert at counter service. When I do the math, and I do in some form every trip, I compare what I would actually order to what I would be entitled to on the DDP. It never works out in the DDP plan favor. More money and lots of wasted food.

As for free dining, because I am a party of one, it almost always works out that it would actually cost me money because of having to pay the rack rate.

But, to each his own, you have to do what is best for your party.

 

[jojomoore]

I'd disagree with this. As I said early, we REALLY like food. The DxDP would just be too many meals, esp with 2 small children. We felt like the reg. dining plan would either be a waste because we wouldn't use it all or make us eat far less well than we'd normally eat. Looking at the menus of most (I'm sure there are exceptions that I'm unaware of!) CS places, it's not what I'd consider "good food." The buffets don't sounds extremely appealing either. The food that is most appealing to us comes from the signature places, which looking at what we'd order vs the cost of 2 TS, don't seem to be a great way to go. Plus we'd be paying for drinks we'd never consume, and feel like we couldn't order appetizers. Seeing as I already paid the money, I'd feel like I'd need to obsess over actually getting out of the plan what I put in rather than just order what I was & enjoy it.

I completely feel the way you feel.

Also, I don't like someone telling me what I can and cannot order. But that is just me.

 

[jojomoore]

I am not using the dining plan this year and here is why:

My children were 9 last year when when we visited WDW and used the DDP. plan. They were forced to eat from kids menu at TS and CS meals. At buffets and most Table services this is ok but at CS and limited menu TS restaurants this definately caused my children to get upset.

This year if we use the dining plan I have to pay for four adults on the DDP.
Therefore, my children can only eat from the adult menu's at TS and CS restaurants. I suppose if you add up the cost of eating OOP (all adult meals) to the cost of the DDP (all adult meals) the DDP would come out costing less.

However, at most TS restaurants my children will order from of the children's menu or split an adult plate (they are not sacraficing. that is all they truly want and will eat)We will only have to pay OOP Children's menu price or for one adult meal instead of two. They can still eat from adult menu at CS. Plus we do not eat alot of snacks between meals. So we do not need all those snack credits. A bottle of water in a back pack in between meals is plenty (We do not travel during summer months). Therefore it will not cost us more to pay OOP than the DDP costs. And the restrictions on my children's eating choices make the choice to not use the DDP a no brainer. Also, me and my dh will be able to eat whatever we desire from the adult menu at California Grill, Yatcthsman steakhouse, kona cafe, yak and yeti , beaches and cream, crystal palace, 1900 fare, cape may, and tuskerhouse, and hopefully the new pizzaria in epcot.

 

[familyS]

I did the math many times. For my family it depends on the time of year we visit. If it will be hot out we will not be eating as many large meals and definitely no fries or desserts at cs.

 

[ReneeA]

Kinda late to the party, but here's why we still go with the DDP. We've used it every year since 2005 (when it was a super good deal - went during free dining and it still included tip and appetizers). As long as my kids are still considered "children" at Disney, it's a good deal for us. I've used the menus, figured out where & what we would eat with and without the plan, and then added it up.

Without the plan, we'd eat 3-4 TS for the 10 days we're there, DH & I would eat less snacks, and we'd eat 2 CS meals a day. From looking at the menus, we'd spend about $70-85 a day on food eating that way. Tips for the trip would cost about $60. The plus is that we can move around without planning around too many TS meals (a definite minus in DH's mind - he likes the sit down meals). The minus is that we would be sharing sides and drinks, I'd drink water when I really want Diet Coke, and I'd have a hard time ordering *exactly* what I want on the menu...instead I'd order something more inexpensive.

With the plan, we eat a TS dinner, and an early CS lunch every day. The plan costs our family $98 a night (when we pay for it...normally we go during free dining, and stay at a moderate resort so it really is the biggest discount for us). DH & I really like to slow down and have a TS dinner every night, and we wouldn't do that without the plan, rather have one every other night or so. Tips end up costing us about $140 OOP for the 10 day trip. We get to order what everyone wants to eat, everyone gets their own drinks, I can get my coffee drinks in the morning for a snack credit, and there's no blinking at all 4 of us ordering the more expensive meals on the menu at a TS restaurant if that's what they want. Cons? It'll be less cost effective when the kids are adults on the plan (at 7 & 8 years old now - a few short years). However, my 8 year DS is almost 5 foot tall and outeats me now...he'll NEED the adult portion by that time.

So for now, the plan works for us. Every year, I sit down and work the numbers and it continues to work for us. Depending on if they change the plan in the future, it looks like it will continue to work for us, at least for a few more years.

 

[Melodious]

We did the DXDP last week and it is way too much food. Our two dds (8,6) could not eat all their food. Neither DW nor I could eat all the food. But, we never would have tried the different places if we weren't on the DP. We do character breakfasts for the characters and not the buffets, then a signature dining or dinner show (2 TS) in the evening. If hungry for lunch, a poolside snack is a nice option. It was fun eating an ice cream sandwich for lunch.

We have went on DP, DxDP, and OOP. We have also packed a cooler and food and drove to WDW. And, I would wheel the cooler around and fill it up with ice, lug it up and down stairs, eat meals in the room while standing or sitting on the bed because that are not seats for 4 people, unless you drag the chairs in from the balcony. We've ordered meals we thought our children would eat (chicken, burgers, fries) so that we could split it with them instead of ordering what everyone wanted. I spent less money and consumed a lot less calories OOP, but it was not fun. If I am concerned about saving money, then I am not going to WDW for a vacation.

I too disagree with the idea that having a DDP will make everyone feel more 'free' on your vacation. My mom and I will be at WDW for 13 nights, we made ADRs at every restaurant on property that appeals to us. It's not cost-effective for us to do the plan because we want to do a lot of buffets (CP, Akershus, Biergarten, Fantasmic pkg), which in my calculations don't get as much worth from the plan because it's a flat fee for three courses basically. Also we want to do breakfast at the GF cafe. IF we were on the plan, we'd count that on our TS credits to make 13 TS credits, but we'd only spend maybe $15 on the meal OOP. THat's an even worse use of a TS credit. And we want to do room service breakfast...that's probably the worst use of TS credits ever. And wanting to do a meal at Cali Grill, definitely not worth two TS credits when we won't even get dessert since we intend to order a specialty cake.

But we don't want to do more TS meals than we have planned. We're going to hit everything we want and we're worried about having too many sitdown meals! Also I've heard too many stories of this sundae is a snack on the plan, this is not blah blah. I don't want to choose the sundae that's on the plan, but I would because that's the kinda person I am. Plus I'm more likely to have an adult frozen beverage as a snack while strolling around and those are NOT on the plan

The plan just isn't for everybody and you really need to figure it out for yourself if it suits your needs. We just couldn't save money with it, and didn't see any other reason to get it since we can prepay with gift cards

 

[MissionMouse]

Run the numbers, but remember the other items: Kids are restricted to some not so great choices incomparison to what is available in the main restaurant menu. If you don't normally dine counter service you will be introduced to the Disney extreme table hording phenomenon, also some very long lines at some of the cs restaurants with some of the better menu offerings. Using most if not all of your ddp tickets is important, since you paid for your meals in advance. When you are on site you now need to manage your savings, since they don't happen automatically. If you stay club level, you may find you can do without a lot of the counter service tickets. Lastly, as some other have mentioned, your own eating habits may differ from the plan design.

 

[prttynpnk]

For us- it's perfect.
We don't have kids, we like to divide our days with sit down meals- to get away from the heat and change our atmosphere.
-Normally we do basic and pool our snack credits for edible gifts for co-workers
- During F&W we do deluxe- 1 cs a day and a 2ts dinner, pooling all the snack credits for a big graze at the festival.
- We don't like to think about costs at meals and my husband has a spreadsheet on blackberry and eagerly computes our savings at each meal and it has always worked out well for us.
I know some of the menu items are not as exciting as they were pre-ddp, but if you lived in our town, you'd just be excited to not be eating fried chain restaurant meals!

 

[allshookup]

I'm late to this party too, but I actually find it kind of odd that people would order "cheap things" just because they are NOT on the dining plan. To me dining is a big part of my vacation since I do a lot of cooking, serving & cleaning at home & I'm not about to pack a PB&J to save a few bucks, when I can go sit in a nice A/C restaurant & eat something I really enjoy. When we are on vacation, it's just that a vacation & we eat what we like. That being said, we STILL don't think the DDP is a good deal. The dining plan is far from cheap & i'm surprised that people who will save money by avoiding expensive meals, will go ahead & purchase it.

I've crunched the numbers & I've added up everything we would normally eat & I'm telling you that DDP is NOT a savings. It's about a break even & it is a great way to prepay if that's what people prefer. But seriously look at what you would "normally" order (not what's cheap or most expensive) throughout a few days at disney including snacks & then compare it to the dining plan. Like others have said, don't forget to add tax & gratuity & see what a savings it really is. If you add up what you "get" on the dining plan & then compare to what you would've paid for it, then yes it looks great, but would you have really ordered all that??? If everyone in your family LOVES & finishes a dessert at every meal, and everyone has popcorn, mickey bars, etc. throughout the day along with 2 full meals then maybe it is a great deal for you, but be realistic in your calculations.

For us we just don't eat desserts at every meal & if I do decided to eat dessert I usually split w/ DH, not because we're cheap, but because I sometimes just want a "taste" of something & I hate wasting food. I actually prefer an appetizer, but even then I like to split it because the entrees themselves are filling enough. Sometimes like a PP mentioned I might just order an appetizer as my meal, i.e. sushi, since nobody else in family eats it & I'm not about to eat a full serving of sushi & then scoff down a steak. We've done the dining plan a couple of times & the amount of food that is placed on a CS tray for a family of 4 is mind boggling & we are not light eaters by any means.

If it was just DH & I and we were there for a few days, I would probably do the DXDP, just for convenience sake, but a huge savings? No way not unless it's free!

 

[Cafeen]

I'm late to this party too, but I actually find it kind of odd that people would order "cheap things" just because they are NOT on the dining plan. To me dining is a big part of my vacation since I do a lot of cooking, serving & cleaning at home & I'm not about to pack a PB&J to save a few bucks, when I can go sit in a nice A/C restaurant & eat something I really enjoy. When we are on vacation, it's just that a vacation & we eat what we like. That being said, we STILL don't think the DDP is a good deal. The dining plan is far from cheap & i'm surprised that people who will save money by avoiding expensive meals, will go ahead & purchase it.

I've crunched the numbers & I've added up everything we would normally eat & I'm telling you that DDP is NOT a savings. It's about a break even & it is a great way to prepay if that's what people prefer. But seriously look at what you would "normally" order (not what's cheap or most expensive) throughout a few days at disney including snacks & then compare it to the dining plan. Like others have said, don't forget to add tax & gratuity & see what a savings it really is. If you add up what you "get" on the dining plan & then compare to what you would've paid for it, then yes it looks great, but would you have really ordered all that??? If everyone in your family LOVES & finishes a dessert at every meal, and everyone has popcorn, mickey bars, etc. throughout the day along with 2 full meals then maybe it is a great deal for you, but be realistic in your calculations.

For us we just don't eat desserts at every meal & if I do decided to eat dessert I usually split w/ DH, not because we're cheap, but because I sometimes just want a "taste" of something & I hate wasting food. I actually prefer an appetizer, but even then I like to split it because the entrees themselves are filling enough. Sometimes like a PP mentioned I might just order an appetizer as my meal, i.e. sushi, since nobody else in family eats it & I'm not about to eat a full serving of sushi & then scoff down a steak. We've done the dining plan a couple of times & the amount of food that is placed on a CS tray for a family of 4 is mind boggling & we are not light eaters by any means.

If it was just DH & I and we were there for a few days, I would probably do the DXDP, just for convenience sake, but a huge savings? No way not unless it's free!

I did the same thing, compared what I would get OOP vs what I would get DxDDP. I even changed up locations for places I'd go on DxDDP but not if paying OOP (I also compared DDP and QSDP at the same time).

The totals came out to about $485 for OOP and $740 for DxDDP (1 person, 8 nights, including estimated tips and OOP expenses). So, I could get off cheaper OOP for sure. However, I'd miss out on several meals that I did desire to have as well as skipping desserts and/or apps at several of the places I still would go, that extra $255 was worth it to me for the experiences. Comparing what I would spend if I dined as I would on DxDDP, it would have been $908.

Experience is sure a factor in the decision and why I specifically do my math is a certain way. The key is to define your ideal itinerary and then compare what you want to order. For myself, it's easy, I'm picky so there's only a couple items on each menu that I think I'll like , when estimating for others, I usually grab the median or mean prices (depends on the menu) and use that as the estimation (not the maximum!).