Handicapped viewing for the parade problem

If there is an "accepted" sentiment that ECVs, or their inexperienced users, are a specific nuisance that needs to be addressed do you believe that WDW should stop making ECVs freely available to the general public and replace their availability with a policy that would reserve the Disney ECVs not for those with preexisting conditions, who should either have their own or know in advance they will need to rent one offsite, but for those needing to use one because of an emergency medical condition that developed at the parks, as supported by treatment by the First Aid stations?
 
videogal1 said:
If there is an "accepted" sentiment that ECVs, or their inexperienced users, are a specific nuisance that needs to be addressed do you believe that WDW should stop making ECVs freely available to the general public and replace their availability with a policy that would reserve the Disney ECVs not for those with preexisting conditions, who should either have their own or know in advance they will need to rent one offsite, but for those needing to use one because of an emergency medical condition that developed at the parks, as supported by treatment by the First Aid stations?
I would have to disagree with you a bit. The first time I decided I needed an ECV I was at Epcot. Afterwards, Judy commented that she had a better time with me in the ECV than with m struggling to walk and having to rest often. I did daily rents the rest of the trip, and ever since (until buying my own) I rented from off-site.

A potential problem related to inexperienced using an ECV, the off-site rentals can go about 4½ MPH while the Disney ones are limited to 2.0 MPH. A few months ago my mother was visiting and I "forced" her to use the ECV that had been Judy's (Mom is 91) and I made sure we stayed at "turtle" all the time. She kept trying to locate the brake pedal.
 
what is more annoying is that even if you are disabled or are the parent of a disabled person the same rules about common sense should apply .. just because you are disabled, doesn't mean you are entitled to special FOL treatment

It all boils down to common sense and common courtesy. Some folks do seem to feel they are entitled because they are in an ECV/wc. I think they are same folks that think the w/c ECV gets FOL at every attraction. We have all seen them.They probably are the same way at home.
 

Even though we had rented an ECV from off-site, my FIL preferred the WDW ECVs since he had used them before and felt comfortable with driving them (we were hoping my FIL would use the one we rented, but also were traveling with a guy with really bad knees who did use it). The park ones also went slower, felt more secure to him because of the 4 wheels and he didn't have to worry about getting it to the park on the bus.
If WDW were to stop renting them, he would be very limited in what he could do in the parks. We worked at trying to convince him to use one for a bout 15 years before he actually did use one. By that point, he was pretty restricted in where he could go in the parks and he ended each day in a lot of pain from knees and hips. He would not rent from off-site and would not have one of his own because he doesn't consider that he needs one every day.

I think the people who are a problem with ECVs would be the same people who are a problem without them - those people who don't think of others and only think of themselves. Not having an ECV would probably not make much difference in their behavior, it just gives them a better way to get around. And, some of the "worst" offenders I have seen were not using WDW park ECVs, they were using their own or off-site rentals.

Some of the other problems are caused not by people driving ECVs/wheelchairs, but by impatient people who are not using them.

I think Nanajo said it really well:
Nanajo1 said:
It all boils down to common sense and common courtesy. Some folks do seem to feel they are entitled because they are in an ECV/wc. I think they are same folks that think the w/c ECV gets FOL at every attraction. We have all seen them.They probably are the same way at home.
 
videogal1 said:
If there is an "accepted" sentiment that ECVs, or their inexperienced users, are a specific nuisance that needs to be addressed
I am not certain that this view is "accepted" by everyone reading this board as a nuisance that needs to be addressed. I am not certain that there very ocassional inconvenience caused, needs to be addressed other than by tolerance.


videogal1 said:
do you believe that WDW should stop making ECVs freely available to the general public
No. As soon as you do that you are forcing people to justify their need to use them. Those in need shouldn't have to prove their need.


videogal1 said:
and replace their availability with a policy that would reserve the Disney ECVs not for those with preexisting conditions, who should either have their own or know in advance they will need to rent one offsite
My wife has arthritis, which might be considered a pre-existing condition. Sometimes she sets out on foot with good intentions, gets part way round the park then goes back for an ECV. She also loves relaxing by the pool and only goes into a park about one day in three, despite having an AP. Renting off-site would be unnecessary and expensive. (we usually visit after labor day when the parks are less crowded and disney's ECVs are usually available.)

And back to the thread...
My wife is lucky in that she is married to someone who is disabled, and is therefore allowed into the areas set aside for the disabled with him. However, her arthritis sometimes forces her to abandon him to look for somewhere to sit down. This means she often misses the parade (or Wishes) altogether because of a wall of people standing in front of her. Next visit we need to bring a folding stool for her.

And next visit we need to find somewhere to view Wishes. Last trip we watched the light parade from the 'disabled' area outside the fire house, then I moved across to the end of main street to see Wishes. Unfortunately my wife missed Wishes altogether because she couldn't find a seat with a view. My own view was restricted because you're not very tall sitting in a wheelchair in a crowd and it's hard to see over everyone.


Andrew
 
I have had varying experiences. Our situation is pretty unique. My sister and I both use electric wheelchairs full time. My mom also has an electric wheelchair that she uses outside of the house. We all have Muscular Dystrophy. We rent a wheelchair for my Grandma because she has severe artritis, macular degeneration, and heart disease. My Dad pushes her. So we need a lot of room :). Also my Dad has to assist all of us. Our last trip to WDW was 4 years ago :(. My sister also has a kidney reflux problem where she damages her kidneys if she waits to pee. We'd been sitting there for an hour and a half when my sister had to pee. We were told if she left she might not get back in. This is a problem since my Dad assists all of us. We held our breath...Meanwhile there was this family to our left. The man in the ECV was nice enough but his wife :sad2: The incident ended up with security being called. My sister did get back in...

In other cases, people have been very polite. They'll move over nicely. Let families be together. I will let small children sit in front of me but not adults because I can't see.

The rule about no one standing next to me would be a big problem now. I now have a trach that needs suctioned at anytime. My voice is very soft. I wear a vent 5-7 hours during the day. When I need the vent, the need is urgent. I can't talk on the vent so someone has to read my lips. I take breathing treatments every 2-3 hours. So it's essential that my Dad be near me and able to access my equipment.

I agree that the viewing areas can get very crowded. I think Disney should allot more space for parade/fireworks viewing.


Christamae
 
I agree with you Kirlinale.... although I am in and ECV and my daughter in a wheelchair, so I sit next to her fopr parades and my husband stands behind us. If Talking_Hands (nana) is with us we flank her (Nana is in a power chair) and DH (and anyone else is behind) We have learned to be very vocal, especially with those that come up 5 minutes before the parade when we have been there for an hour or more when it clearly says to arrive at *least* 30 minutes to parade time.
 
My son uses a wheelchair at WDW, and on the rare times that we take in a parade, we use the handicapped seating. I have to say I had no idea there was a limit in the number of people allowed inside the roped area. OUR biggest issue was regular folks trying to sit in the handicapped area, esp jumping in just as parade was tro start. One went as far as lying to the CM who told them to move, saying they were WITH another family next to us (Brits who did not seem to understand what these idiots were saying)
 
MommytoMJM said:
If Talking_Hands (nana) is with us we flank her (Nana is in a power chair) and DH (and anyone else is behind)

I had no idea you guys were related!!! :)
 
PatMcDuck said:
I have to say I had no idea there was a limit in the number of people allowed inside the roped area. OUR biggest issue was regular folks trying to sit in the handicapped area, esp jumping in just as parade was tro start. One went as far as lying to the CM who told them to move, saying they were WITH another family next to us (Brits who did not seem to understand what these idiots were saying)
If you are going during a time when it is not busy, they often do not limit the people allowed into the roped off area. It all depends on how busy it is.
If it's not busy, the CMs might allow 5 plus the person with a disability and not say anything except if they need more room. If it's sort of busy, they may tell you when you come into the area, that you will all be allowed in, but some will have to leave if more room is needed for people with wheelchairs.
I'm guessing that you went during a non-busy time (since there was room for anyone to jump in as the parade is starting). We saw that happening at Fantasmic when we were there laast week. The CM was not right by us and we had several families who just sat down as if they knew someone in the area and were part of their party.
We've also had several times during waits for rides when someone tried to join our party. One was on the Safari, where there is a separate handicapped boarding area that you are pulled off for not far before the regular boarding area. A family behind us in line started talking to us right before that point and then tried to follow us in. When we said how many were in our party, the number of course, didn't include them. The CM asked who they were with - they pointed to us. The CM asked us, we said no, and the people pointed beyond us - "Oh, we didn't mean them, we meant them" (pointing at another family. The CM asked that family, who said no, so he asked the whole area - "Is this family with you." They weren't with anyone, so they got escorted back out of line (and I don't know what happened to them). The ironic thing is that they apparently thought they would save some time, but we have almost always waited way longer at the handicapped boarding area for the Safari than we would if we were able to use the regular boarding area.
 
Something that a lot of you seem to forget. When our childern our severly handicap not just physically but also mentally "getting there early like the rest of us" won't work . I can not take her to run around to keep her busy while we hold the spot because she cant run. If I took her for a walk with her WC her spot would be taken. I am sorry the the handicap viewng area is a really sore subject for me. My DD also does not understabd other peoples personal space and loves to "say hi" to everyone around her by touching them. By putting others chairs close up to hers it is really hard to help her keep her hand to her self.
 
michelle9343 said:
Something that a lot of you seem to forget. When our childern our severly handicap not just physically but also mentally "getting there early like the rest of us" won't work . I can not take her to run around to keep her busy while we hold the spot because she cant run. If I took her for a walk with her WC her spot would be taken. I am sorry the the handicap viewng area is a really sore subject for me. My DD also does not understabd other peoples personal space and loves to "say hi" to everyone around her by touching them. By putting others chairs close up to hers it is really hard to help her keep her hand to her self.
That's why I think it would be nice if they had 2 sorts of handicapped viewing spots. Right now, they have groups of people with very different needs sharing the same space.

If I ran WDW, I'd have one area that is for people who basically need a place to park their wheelchair or ECV. For that area, it could run the way things currently run - you get there and get a space and stay there. The wheelchairs could be parked close to one another, with some benches behind and places for other members of the party to stand behind the wheelchair/ECV.

The other area would be for people who may have a wheelchair or ECV (or maybe not), but have issues that make it difficult for them to be in such a closely packed environment. Those areas could be run differently. They could actually tape off "spots" and number them. The spots would be big enough for a group of up to 6 (5 plus a wheelchair) so that people who really need their family with them would be able to do that. Also, spaces with enough separation that there would be no worry about guest who really don't understand personal space.
When you come to the area, you could get a ticket indicating which "spot" would be yours. There would be some space for moving around within the roped in area and you could leave and come back as long as you had your "ticket".
 
michelle9343 said:
Sue
That is exactly what we need.
I'm not sure how to get it, but it would be nice if they did do things that way.
 
The other area would be for people who may have a wheelchair or ECV (or maybe not), but have issues that make it difficult for them to be in such a closely packed environment. Those areas could be run differently. They could actually tape off "spots" and number them. The spots would be big enough for a group of up to 6 (5 plus a wheelchair) so that people who really need their family with them would be able to do that. Also, spaces with enough separation that there would be no worry about guest who really don't understand personal space.
When you come to the area, you could get a ticket indicating which "spot" would be yours. There would be some space for moving around within the roped in area and you could leave and come back as long as you had your "ticket".
Maybe this could be included on the GAC. The GAC notation that already helps those with personal space issues of waiting in line. Just a thought.
 
Not being a wheel chair user I just wanted to give my opinion. Not every person that is disabled is in a wheel chair. My daughter has autism and though we are able to use the designated area we have never.
From reading this list I don't think I every would.

I see several problems.

If a person is parking an ecv they should be sitting in it. They should not be allowed to abandon it and sit on a bench elsewhere even if it is to sit with a family member. There could just as easily be a person with difficulty walking that could not afford a Ecv and they should be given a spot on the bench. Taking up two spots is not fair to anyone. Just like a cm will rearrange strollers left in inapporpriate areas I think they should move them out of the Disabled area. That includes anyone parking it and running to get ice cream they don't need to be in that area. :moped:

I think it would be good idea to have colored wrist bands for the designated spots. A certain number of colored bands could be designated for each area. Pick up locations could be determined 2 per handicapped individual available early in the day. When they are gone they are gone. No one else gets in. No crowding no arguement. By allowing pick up earlier in the day, people would have to plan appropriately.

Last May we were eating in MK did not realize we were in a restauant with a out door area were you could see paradee. We were eating in side because it was warm. When we heard the noise we went out. We of course would not let her go to the front of other people. Other Adults without even realizing her disability moved back so she could have a spot up front. She was amazed. The entire paradee she waved that classic homecomming queen wave. To the point she was physically holding her elbow up with her other hand because her arm was so tired, but she could not stop what would mickey think if he noticed her and she was not waving. To a child those characters are real. It is not a CM dressed up as Cinderella its the princess she's dreamed about. With that being said I would never get in the way of a child seeing a paradee. They should be allowed to sit in front of others adults even those in wheelchairs. If my daughter was sitting she would not even be above the persons knees so How is that interfering with your viewing. I thank God :angel: for the people that allowed my daughter this experience that she can still remember and talk about almost a year later. By the way remember she does have autism and limited verbal skills.

Before I get any flack let it be known. I do open the doors for someone in a wheel chair. I also do it for a parent pushing a stroller. And I have my child (though she is getting big) sit on my lap on the bus before I would allow someone to stand on the bus. There are people out there that try to do the right thing, unfortunatlly it seems our numbers are decreasing.
 
Not every person that is disabled is in a wheel chair. My daughter has autism and though we are able to use the designated area we have never.
From reading this list I don't think I every would.
We did use the accessible area at AK for the parade (ds has aspergers & SID)and it was wonderful. He was able to comfortably watch and not feel crushed or crammed. There were only 3 other families in the area, although I could hear one of the families complaining that we were in the area without a wheelchair. :rolleyes: It's not like were taking any space away from them. They actually ended up leaving and going to another accessible spot because the one we were in was going to leave them trapped at the end of the parade? :confused3

When we went to attempt using the accessible area at MK we opted to pass. It was more crowded than just sitting on the curb, plus it was in direct sunlight which is a problem for ds since he tends to overheat to easily. So we just staked out a space on the curb and spread out a bit so he didnt feel crushed. We normally would have skipped the MK parade altogether, except my nephew was in the opening marching band and we wanted to see him march down Main Street.

I like the idea that someone posted earlier about reserving some spaces for those with SID type disabilities.

My only other beef from this trip was the non-helpful CM at Honey, I Shrunk the Audience. They wouldnt let us in the accessible area, even with the GAC. So when we got into the pre-show area DH stood off ot the side with DS who was in the middle of a meltdown, although not quite full-blown. We needed to remove him from the crush of people and found a spot along the side wall. The CM walked over to us and basically told us if he couldnt stand with the crowd he had to leave and showed us the exit. Yes, I know we were in an area they wanted to keep clear, but when I showed the GAC, pointed to a crying ds, and asked again if we could just go to the accessible area we were again told no we would have to leave if he couldnt stand with the crowd.
Sorry, got a bit OT since I know we are talking parades, but the CM at Honey really annoyed me.
 
You have said what I think I tried to say .. Except you did it much better.. :cheer2: You are right, those people who could park, run and abandon those ECV's or rental chairs really should not be taking the space and could accomondate those who need it. I also agree that allowing a child to sit in front, on the ground up against the ropes NOT intereferring with an adult who has JUST mobility type issues as you can easily see over without it affecting your view. Obviously, if there is a more significant disability such as visual or hearing etc that require a very clear view then that is totally justifiable.

I also agree with you about children believing in the magic my daughter truly believes in Cinderella and this is where she lives..
I also think that adults should have the same rights viewing a parade as a child but should not be so inflexibile to consider possible options to accomondate everyone.. Most adults should have the maturity level to understand this difference.

I like the wrist band idea. My child does not look disabled, many disabled people don't. She rides in special stroller but has significant disabilites that prevent her from be able to enjoy things in the same manner as the general non-disabled public (Inoperable brain tumor, intractible epilepsy, cognitive delays, hypotonia, mobility issues, visual delays and significant phobias due to tumor treatment ...etc) so for US it is important that she has her family with her and not just pushing her up to the ropes and stand behind her where she looses the comfort of having us near, she is 4 years old and when I asked the CM if I could move her chair and keep the space with her on my lap and he said 'No' only chairs up there.. There were alot of things I saw on my trip that was just plain UGLY human behaviour, thankfully I saw way more good than bad.. I have still not gotten over the man in the ECV telling me that either my 4 year old sits in her chair or he is telling the CM then proceded to get ugly with us. I also am quite annoyed that 5-10 minutes before a parade starts and everyone is already crammed and settled that families, many with significantly disabled children and adults are being forced to move to allow space for the newcomer without first asking those with parked chairs sitting elsewhere to move. There were also many people who were there with their family , that typically included sibilings who were under 8 that were being technically punished because they had to be there for their disabled family members and not one single 'ABLE' person and yes there are handicapped ABLE people who could move a foot back and let some of these kids see too and you know what, it would not have affected them one bit.

This is why I was so upset with the significant number of people, who, abused and yes, they abused these areas by parking unattended ECVS/Chairs and did other 'not too poilite' things thus taking away from the enjoyment of all the people there not just children, but even adults who need more hands on care.

I like the wrist band idea, it would ensure those who need it some space, it would also insure that those needing hearing or visual support get access to that, yes , you would have to plan accordingly but it at least would be fair. The sad fact is that we could not enjoy the parades from anywhere else but the disability areas, mostly because if DD had a seizure it was an easy area to deal with it and had close access to a CM to get help. The disability areas were much better managed at MGM then anywhere else, MK was great for us with the exception of it not really having enough area/well managed areas for the accesible viewing..

A friend of mine told me when she was there last year the trams were packed getting out of MK.. an older couple, one using a cane boarded the tram.. not one single person got up to let at least the one with the cane sit.. When one of the standing adults approached a young adult and his girlfriend about standing.. he said he was tired and got there first .. :sad2: :furious: .. This is the type of behaviour I see more and more often.

When I was talking to the CM at Guest Services she told me that there was alot of abuse in regard to disabilaties which is why they are making it more difficult for them to asess needs and harder to provide appropriate services.. she also said that many people feel the significantly disabled are getting priveldges.. sorry but if any person considers a 4 year old with an inoperable brain tumor 'Privledged' then mabe they are truly disabled.. I was very impressed though with how much Disney tries to help and the level of compassion shown to my DD but most of the Disney CM's. There were two in particular who made our trip very magical and can't wait to find out how to contact Disney to let them know of these very exceptional people. :thumbsup2
 
You have said what I think I tried to say .. Except you did it much better.. :cheer2: You are right, those people who could park, run and abandon those ECV's or rental chairs really should not be taking the space and could accomondate those who need it. I also agree that allowing a child to sit in front, on the ground up against the ropes NOT intereferring with an adult who has JUST mobility type issues as you can easily see over without it affecting your view. Obviously, if there is a more significant disability such as visual or hearing etc that require a very clear view then that is totally justifiable.

I also agree with you about children believing in the magic my daughter truly believes in Cinderella and this is where she lives..
I also think that adults should have the same rights viewing a parade as a child but should not be so inflexibile to consider possible options to accomondate everyone.. Most adults should have the maturity level to understand this difference.

I like the wrist band idea. My child does not look disabled, many disabled people don't. She rides in special stroller but has significant disabilites that prevent her from be able to enjoy things in the same manner as the general non-disabled public (Inoperable brain tumor, intractible epilepsy, cognitive delays, hypotonia, mobility issues, visual delays and significant phobias due to tumor treatment ...etc) so for US it is important that she has her family with her and not just pushing her up to the ropes and stand behind her where she looses the comfort of having us near, she is 4 years old and when I asked the CM if I could move her chair and keep the space with her on my lap and he said 'No' only chairs up there.. There were alot of things I saw on my trip that was just plain UGLY human behaviour, thankfully I saw way more good than bad.. I have still not gotten over the man in the ECV telling me that either my 4 year old sits in her chair or he is telling the CM then proceded to get ugly with us. I also am quite annoyed that 5-10 minutes before a parade starts and everyone is already crammed and settled that families, many with significantly disabled children and adults are being forced to move to allow space for the newcomer without first asking those with parked chairs sitting elsewhere to move. There were also many people who were there with their family , that typically included sibilings who were under 8 that were being technically punished because they had to be there for their disabled family members and not one single 'ABLE' person and yes there are handicapped ABLE people who could move a foot back and let some of these kids see too and you know what, it would not have affected them one bit.

This is why I was so upset with the significant number of people, who, abused and yes, they abused these areas by parking unattended ECVS/Chairs and did other 'not too poilite' things thus taking away from the enjoyment of all the people there not just children, but even adults who need more hands on care.

I like the wrist band idea, it would ensure those who need it some space, it would also insure that those needing hearing or visual support get access to that, yes , you would have to plan accordingly but it at least would be fair. The sad fact is that we could not enjoy the parades from anywhere else but the disability areas, mostly because if DD had a seizure it was an easy area to deal with it and had close access to a CM to get help. The disability areas were much better managed at MGM then anywhere else, MK was great for us with the exception of it not really having enough area/well managed areas for the accesible viewing..

A friend of mine told me when she was there last year the trams were packed getting out of MK.. an older couple, one using a cane boarded the tram.. not one single person got up to let at least the one with the cane sit.. When one of the standing adults approached a young adult and his girlfriend about standing.. he said he was tired and got there first .. :sad2: :furious: .. This is the type of behaviour I see more and more often.

When I was talking to the CM at Guest Services she told me that there was alot of abuse in regard to disabilaties which is why they are making it more difficult for them to asess needs and harder to provide appropriate services.. she also said that many people feel the significantly disabled are getting priveldges.. sorry but if any person considers a 4 year old with an inoperable brain tumor 'Privledged' then mabe they are truly disabled.. I was very impressed though with how much Disney tries to help and the level of compassion shown to my DD but most of the Disney CM's. There were two in particular who made our trip very magical and can't wait to find out how to contact Disney to let them know of these very exceptional people. :thumbsup2
 












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