Hamas sweeps to election victory

[eclectics]

If they push Israel to war, they can kiss their backside goodbye.

That is the truth. I've said it before, don't mess with the Israelis, and especially don't back them into a corner. I pray the peace process can continue and clear heads will prevail, but I think the situation is very troubling.

 

[RoyalCanadian]

Why did they do that, do you think?

The Palestinian people are human beings just as we are - things must be pretty dire if they are resorting to violence.

The Arabs have "resorted" to violence against the Jews since long before the creation of Eretz Israel. This is nothing new. This is not a matter of Palestinians responding to Israeli violence -- the Palestinians murder Israelis living in Israel and the court of world opinion expects the Israelis to practice restraint. It is a pattern -- Palestinians plan bombings; Israeli intelligence learns about planned bombings; Israel passes along info to Palestinian Authority to arrest Palestinians planning bombings; Palestinian Authority does nothing; Palestinian bomber detonates bomb; Israelis die; world opinion demands Israeli restraint; repeat.

Build the fence and build it high and let the Palestinians fester in their own much. Israel owes them nothing.

 

[MikeB63]

The reason the Palestinians did this is two-fold; Fatah failed them and they want the destruction of the Jews. Fatah is/was a corrupt organization that did not provide for their people, at least if you believe the interviews with Palestinians on the street. The Arab world's hatred for the Jews goes back many centuries before the creation of Israel. The amazing thing is if you do your research you will find that there are no indeginous "Palestinians" to that region. The Arab/Muslim people who populated the barren land which became present-day Israel were nomadic people of Turkish, Cypriot, and Arab descent among many others. The Jews who built the current state offered and payed much more to those people than the Arab landowners who oppressed them.

Edit: Hamas' campaign included feeding the poor, setting up schools, and generally providing more support for the Palestinians than Fatah had in their reign.

 

[JennyMominRI]

The reason the Palestinians did this is two-fold; Fatah failed them and they want the destruction of the Jews. Fatah is/was a corrupt organization that did not provide for their people, at least if you believe the interviews with Palestinians on the street. The Arab world's hatred for the Jews goes back many centuries before the creation of Israel. The amazing thing is if you do your research you will find that there are no indeginous "Palestinians" to that region. The Arab/Muslim people who populated the barren land which became present-day Israel were nomadic people of Turkish, Cypriot, and Arab descent among many others. The Jews who built the current state offered and payed much more to those people than the Arab landowners who oppressed them.

Edit: Hamas' campaign included feeding the poor, setting up schools, and generally providing more support for the Palestinians than Fatah had in their reign.

And yet for hundreds of years,especially during the middle ages Jews were far better off in Muslim ones then in Western europe..WHile Western Europate was killing them,forcibly converting them expelling them and forcing them into ghettos they were able to live and work in relative peace in Mulsim countries.

 

[Galahad]

How so?



Rich::

For example, root cause is not relevant. If it were it would be just as accurate and useful to analyze how the Treaty of Versailles led to illegal settlements in the West Bank.

 

[Obi-Wan Pinobi]

I don't see any other option but to negotiate with Hamas. They were elected democratically and we're supposed to respect that process. We unfortunately can't pick and choose who other people elect.

I agree with the last three points, but completely disagree with your first. Just because the Palestinians decided on such a radically different party to govern them doesn't mean we have to continue to deal with them.

Once Hamas starts governing, the US should cut aid to the Palestinians until they renounce terrorism and the statement in their charter that calls for the destruction of Israel. Start with cutting it by 50% and give them a month. If they haven't made some changes, then cut the other 50% until they do. Hopefully they will, but somehow, I don't think they will, since they probably believe that is what got them elected.

If acts of violence continue in Israel, the Israelis aren't going to stand for it. The claims of no responsibility and an inability to rein in the terrorists won't wash with Hamas in control. Yes, there may be some loose cannons out there, but without renouncing violence or the call for Israel's destruction, who's going to believe Hamas?

 

[Tanuki]

As I was driving to work yesterday two news stories I heard on the radio got me thinking. The first news story covered the Hamas landslide victory and it's implications and the second covered the demolition of a government housing project that was an example of a failed policy left over from years ago.

At the time the project was constructed, liberals (now discredited) thought that there was a way to solve the problem of poverty in this country. This involved taxing people and using the tax money to "help" the poor by providing them with government handouts. We called it "the great society".
We talked about things called a "social contract".

By now, we have all seen that this just doesn't work. So we have the concept now of the "poverty lifestyle" -that some people are such poor managers of their lives that they are going to be poor no matter how much "help" you provide for them. And people no longer want to see their tax dollars wasted in this way.

Which brings me to my point about Hamas. This is Bush's "great society"

The American people have gone out and borrowed over 300 billion dollars from other countries - mainly China and Japan. We have "invested" this money in the Middle East with the additional cost of over 2000 American Soldiers.

We have been presented with the reasons for the war by this administration. Sure Sadaam was a bad guy, as it turned out there were no Weapons of Mass Destruction - but ultimately we were freeing those people from tyranny and finally bringing democracy to the middle east. Which would then take root and spread. We thought there was some sort of "social contract" here.
That they would reject terrorism.

Well - it doesn't seem to be working out that way at all.

Every time they get a chance to vote they put in a government that thumbs their nose at the United States of America. They got to vote and put in a more oppressive Islamic fundamentalist in Iran. Hamas is a terrorist organization and won by a landslide. We have more terrorists now in Iraq than we did when Sadaam was in power.

So how long do we intend to keep throwing money at this problem?

 

[Galahad]

We thought there was some sort of "social contract" here.
That they would reject terrorism.

Well - it doesn't seem to be working out that way at all.

I think your time frame is WAAAAYYYY too short. History didn't start a few years ago. History won't be over before they next news cycle. Communism still isn't "dead", for example, but its death was predicted, its death was hastened, and its death will come. All of us may not be around to see it, but it will still be dead. That's the kind of time horizon we're looking at. To expect the Palestinians to "get it" is a couple of years doesn't make sense and that they would get it in a couple of years has never been suggested.

 

[MikeB63]

Jenny your statement about living in relative peace is not very accurate, although that depends on the relativity. Jews living in Muslim countries such as Iraq, Morocco, the Sudan, and just about every other Muslim nation were persecuted and treated as second-class citizens. They could not even pass a Muslim on the road without getting off their donkey or camel. They were hung in place of other Muslims for crimes that they did not commit as retribution for the crimes against the victims. Their houses were forcibly taken when it was deemed necessary. When father of a Jewish family died, it was not uncommon for the children to be taken from their mothers to be raised Muslim. These things may seem extreme, but they are well documented in Ottoman records from the reign of their empire. What many people do not see on the evening news is the history of the region, only what is currently happening. I wonder how many people out there sympathetic to the Palestinian cause realize that in the original UN declaration of the Jewish homeland, present day Jordan (then known as Trans-Jordan) was included. It was then taken and given to the Saudi king's brother by Great Britain who had jurisdiction as a reward for intelligence supplied against the Nazi's in WWII. No one today seems to ask why Jordan doesn't give up some land to the Palestinian "refugees". Whatever the history, we seem to be heading to a very delicate and potentially disastrous time.

 

[JennyMominRI]

Jenny your statement about living in relative peace is not very accurate, although that depends on the relativity. Jews living in Muslim countries such as Iraq, Morocco, the Sudan, and just about every other Muslim nation were persecuted and treated as second-class citizens. They could not even pass a Muslim on the road without getting off their donkey or camel. They were hung in place of other Muslims for crimes that they did not commit as retribution for the crimes against the victims. Their houses were forcibly taken when it was deemed necessary. When father of a Jewish family died, it was not uncommon for the children to be taken from their mothers to be raised Muslim. .

Im not saying Jews werent persected under Muslim rule.. I'm saying that with some exceptions,there treatment was *better* than it was in Christian contries. This Acticle sums up much of what I've learned over the years.. Feel free to PM me with your opinion as I don't wish to tie up the board
http://www.hagalil.com/archiv/2003/11/cohen-eng.htm