Half the street shuttered – Now that’s MAGIC!!

[SnackyStacky]

Yes. I pick a hotel based on cost per square foot. Oy.

Was my point really THAT missed?!!?!?!

Disney can't cut measures SO abruptly that you're paying $50 for a stuffed toy instead of $20. SO, they cut things like chicken fingers, jack up the room rates a couple bucks....SMALL things that most people don't even notice. But yet, people are still getting less, and Disney's bottom line is miraculously UP!

I wouldn't have gotten that nit picky if someone hadn't suggested that they're getting less for same, and then brought up resorts.

Anyway, I had a whole reply formulated in my head, but I just don't have the energy to type it out. Sewage is spewing out of the ground in front of my house, and I've been trying to get surly state construction crews to let me use my own parking lot!!!!!!! Oy.

 

[d-r]

It's OK. I get it. Of course they do!
DR

 

[raidermatt]

All that being said, what's really the big deal?

DK's response sums up the big deal in five words:

It is simply bad Show.

Bad show is bad for business. Boarded up storefronts, or even just dark empty ones, give a bad impression, and exude a feeling of failure. They break the illusion and crush the fantasy. Yeah, its worse when its attractions, but restaurants and stores have the same effect.

I still feel bad for our friend gcurling, who simply wanted to purchase an ice tea for his wife, but couldn't find a place to do so because everything was closed a 1/2 hour before the park closed. (alright, not everything, be he tried several places, which he shouldn't have to do)

 

[KNWVIKING]

We arrive on Wednesday for the long weekend. While I originally had no plans on venturing into the parks due to crowds I'm anticipating, I think now I'm going to have to see for myself just what is and isn't closed and if the park feels differently to me.

 

[mickey2001]

Hey Viking, were neighbors! I'm from South Jersey Washington Twp. Near the Deptford Mall. We are flying in to Orlando in the morning for 10 nights at VB & WDW.
Mickey

 

[KNWVIKING]

taking the 7:00 am out of AC or heading over to Philly ? If you've never been to VB, you're going to love it...great resort.

 

[mickey2001]

Taking the 7 AM out of phil.
Have a great trip! Thanks..........

 

[EUROPA]

Originally posted by thedscoop
But, its simply a case of a store closing 120 minutes or less early because everybody is getting lined up for the parade, fireworks, or finishing rides on Space or Splash, then that just doesn't fit into the bad show category for me.

Ahh...so there is some set number of guest that has to notice the closed stores before it becomes bad show?

 

[raidermatt]

1- Parades/fireworks aren't nightly.
2- Not everyone lines up for them. A significant enough number do not.
3- Granted, operating Adventureland for fewer hours would be worse, but then again, that never actually happened. Its not like we're talking about extended operating hours here, either...still shorter hours, now with more closed "commodity outlets".

Come to think about it, if stores and restaurants are being referred to as commodity outlets, its not hard to figure out why the idea of "bad Show" gets lost. With a name like that, it would be easy to forget its even a part of the Show... (Not a knock on you personally, Scoopy)

 

[Another Voice]

Why do early store closings matter?

How come those very same stores were profitable enough to remain open a few years ago when attendance in the Magic Kingdom was lower than it was today? How could the park afford to stay open longer with even fewer paying gets?


Stickers

Some people are interested just to hold a box with a Disney® sticker and will happily accept whatever's on the inside. Other people actually care what's on the inside and won't shell out their money until they see.

The fans are one group, the public is another.

 

[Glenn]

First i should say that ive been going to WDW since the later 80s & 3 of the last 4 yrs. Im wondering what is with disney now days. The MK seems to be busy(friends there in the last 2 wks had hour+ waits) but they close at 7. Sure doesnt give you a chance to go back to the room for rest(then why stay on site). Why do they have to close stores. If there a little slow go down to 1 or 2 clerks. At $6/hr you dont have to sell much to make a profit. As they cut back when will new folk say it was nice but not worth the travel & expense to come back for a good long while. I believe the cutting will reduce the experience & reduce the repeats. Look at Epcot still no parade, the saloon is closed in adventureland and on and on. Im a disney nut but fear they will keep taking away a little here & there and just become another theme park.

 

[crusader]

How could the park afford to stay open longer with even fewer paying gets?

It couldn't. The old "keep the show going" approach was sucking up big dollars into a vacuum, trying to maintain the parks as fully operational when in reality you only had 25-40% capacity. The cutbacks were more gradual than they appear. You are only feeling the full effect of them now because they seem so apparant due to the sheer magnitude. Not to mention the fact that we do benefit from this little thing called the internet.

 

[Pinnie]

Crusader,

Thank you....a voice of reason!!!!!

Glad to see someone gets it!!!



pin

 

[EUROPA]

I just wish that those with Rose Colored Glasses would get their stories straight You guys keep flip flopping back and forth and keep coming up with wilder and wilder explanations for the problems.

I'll put the list out and you guys pick one and agree on it. Feel free to add to it as well.

1. Problems at Disney- There are no problems its a magical as ever.

2. None of these things effect my family so it's not a problem for us.

3. Disney is a business.

4. 9-11 and the bad economy are to blame.

5. You can't please today's customers.

6. Disney is merely training more people to work that is why they are cutting back on the hours that the stores are open.

7. They built Mission Space and have announced EE so everything is fine now.

8. Attendance is up due to all of these great deals they are offering.

9. Attendance is down that is why they are cutting staff.

 

[crusader]

Europa -

It's not rose colored glasses. It's just patience coupled with a bit of practicum. I don't see this industry giant toppling so I'm not jumping on your Disney is a "very bad company and it's all because of Eisner" bandwagon. I happen to be looking beyond the scope of this superficial membrane.

Do a little random surveying yourself my friend. I'll admit I never claimed to be a proponent of the "magic" market but I can't deny its' impact. Truly astounding.

Oh and by the way omit the words "is" and "are" for point 9 and insert the words "was" and "have" respectively - at least for the next few months anyway. (and change the tense for "cutting" )

 

[DisneyKidds]

Glad to see someone gets it!!!

But here is what you guys aren't getting. Sure, it was fine for Disney to make the cuts they did in response to certain events. I have said that many times in the past and believe it to be true. However, do you believe that when/if attendance is back and guests visits exceed the levels that Disney had back in the mid 90's (before the cuts started) that the hours, etc. of that time will return? Unfortnately, I don't believe that will ever happen. I think summer hours until midnight are a pipe dream, even if MK attendance were to be double what it was in 1995. Either disagree with me on that, or explain how that could possibly be ok under your justifications.

IMHO, the reduced hours we are seeing now have become more standard operating procedure than necessary response to bad economic conditions. That is truely unfortunate.

 

[KNWVIKING]

I don't think anybody agrees with #1. We all see some decline.

***2. None of these things effect my family so it's not a problem for us.

3. Disney is a business.

4. 9-11 and the bad economy are to blame.

5. You can't please today's customers.

6. Disney is merely training more people to work that is why they are cutting back on the hours that the stores are open.

7. They built Mission Space and have announced EE so everything is fine now.

8. Attendance is up due to all of these great deals they are offering.

9. Attendance is down that is why they are cutting staff.***

Since #2 appears directed at me I'll start here. Just like Pirate doesn't think Nemo is the greatest or I don't like Alfredos, we are all affected differently. I didn't like to see EE (not the ride) disappear,but I wasn't outraged because I never used it anyway. I don't know if Car 3'ers used EE, but they were outraged because to them it was another "chip" gone. The people who use EE were the ones truely injured.

3.Yes it is a business.A very unique one,but a business none the less with stock holders who don't care about pixie dust.

4. Not entirely, but they are a contributing factor. How much so, well we can debate that till we're blue in the finger but we just won't ever know the truth.

5. Yes you can,just not all of them. I operate a GMC service department. I can fix a higher percentage of trucks then I can owners. Some people expect their truck to have the ride of their Caddy just because they both cost the same.Ain't goin' to happen.

6. Has anybody posted an absolute fact as to why the stores are closing. I think number 6 clasifies as an "I don't know,maybe this is why". Car 1-2 IMO will see a problem and try to determine a reason it happened, Car 3 people just scream foul. Just look at the title of the OT, is it what has really occured in MK, or was the posters intention to create a thread like this. It's interesting that I posted a little blurb from another site that stated MGM was actually extending the hours of some of its restaurants which was totally ignored. guess good news don't count.

7. No, alls not fine,but it's a step-a big step to some- in the right direction.

8 & 9. kinda go hand in hand. Attendance down,cut the workforce. Put out a discount,huge success, MK got caught with their pants down.

***I'll put the list out and you guys pick one and agree on it. Feel free to add to it as well.***

#10: A little bit of most of the above.

That's my choice. I'm done now. On to other threads.

 

[raidermatt]

Scoop, if the parks are being forced into closing storefronts and/or restaurants to meet a budget number, things are not better. They are just making choices that aren't as bad.

The lessor of two evils is still evil.

(Yes, the use of the word evil is hyperbole...)

The cutbacks were more gradual than they appear. You are only feeling the full effect of them now because they seem so apparant due to the sheer magnitude.

Nobody is saying there have been a sudden increase in cutbacks. Most are saying the cutbacks have been very gradual and have been happening for many years. Its just that now, Disney has some issues outside of its control that have allowed them to accelerate the cutbacks over the last 18 months or so.

Oh and by the way omit the words "is" and "are" for point 9 and insert the words "was" and "have" respectively - at least for the next few months anyway. (and change the tense for "cutting" )

If stores are closing, staff IS being cut. At least from an FTE perspective, if not from a headcount perspective.

I just continually amazed at the dark black-colored glasses crew that haven't seen a recognizable shift in WDW since Pressler left.

Likewise I am amazed at how low expectations have sunk. Yeah, there may have been a shift, but again, "not as bad" doesn't cut it.

 

[hopemax]

Back on page 2, which I'm assuming Scoop didn't read, I said...

I just thought of something, don't know if it's why or not, but it's the only thing I can think of. A few years ago DL, shuttered a bunch of things around July 17th. The same questions were asked, why would all of this stuff stop the week of DL's actual 45th birthday?

The rumored culprit was, that as DL approached the end of it's fiscal year, there wasn't enough money to fund everything. Given the state of the rest of the company, and the attitude Burbank has for the parks these days, it's not like the parks can go ask Burbank for money, no matter if the crowds are there or not.

DL took the path of decreasing operating hours of many of it's attractions (Mark Twain, Tiki Room, Toontown), and shutting a few down altogether (Jolly Trolley). The reaction to that was, "People come to ride the rides, why shut them down!"

Now, if WDW is facing a similar budget crunch, which kinda makes sense. They were given budget for a certain level of crowds, and if it's higher (or is projected to be higher because of the FTP) they know they are going to need extra staffing on the attractions, custodial, security. The money has to come from somewhere, and if Burbank isn't going to give them anymore, it means cuts at WDW. WDW seems to be taking the "leave the attractions alone" route, and even re-opening COP (which is good), and shutting secondary services like shopping and dining.

As a guest, which would you prefer? Attractions closing early, or something else?

In DL, October came, the new budget was released and many of the summer cutbacks were rescinded.

Then Scoop said

But, what is important to me is that, if WDW or Attractions is being told it must cut more at the end of the old fiscal year (or beginning of the new one however you'd like to phrase it), then the first thing approached for these cuts are not attractions and shows but instead retail overhead.

So while I guessed right about the "end of the fiscal year" thing, you appear to be saying that it wasn't "unexpected higher costs due to an uptick in attendance" that is the problem, but Burbank pulling more budget away?

Well, that really sucks, because even if all the disillusioned Disney fans were to hop down to WDW, IT WON'T MAKE A BIT OF DIFFERENCE. Burbank is still going to be like that scene from Disney's Robin Hood where the Sheriff of Nottingham takes the coin out of the poor box to help "Poor, poor Prince John."

 

[DisneyKidds]

I just continually amazed at the dark black-colored glasses crew that haven't seen a recognizable shift in WDW since Pressler left.

Sorry Scoop, you can't get off that easy. First off, you know I wear anything but dark black-colored glasses. I belived that EE would come back. I believe there are good things happening and great new stuff in the pipeline. I believe it so much that I have created moderators on other sites . However, the return of midnight hours is beyond the stretch of even my imagination.

As for the shift since the departure of Pressler, I agree with you. What you missed in not reading this whole thread was my disagreement with Baron. He implied that Rasulo is no different than Pressler given that both have demanded cuts. I, like you, pointed out that Presslers cuts gave us DinoRama, and Rasulo is cutting other things to give us the likes of Everest. No, Rasulo is not Pressler and there has been a shift, and that is why my optimism is on the uptake. However, if Disney can mend attendance with hours no later than 10:00, what incentive will they have to bring back midnight hours? None, absolutely none.