Gun Found at AK - Updated Post#25 Guest Found Loaded Gun

[martinm]

I'm just trying to be realistic here--guns go off plenty when a person does not mean for it to happen.

This is called a negligent discharge and it still had the trigger pulled. (lack of training or discipline)

 

[AmyB2006]

LOL. All of this whining will never change the fact that in a big crowd of people anywhere in America more than a few of them are packin' heat.

That's just a fact.

This is guaranteed.

 

[AmyB2006]

This is the problem...and this is what makes us feel so vulnerable. It makes us feel uneasy to know that we could be standing in line at Disney, or anywhere for that matter, next to someone who has no business carrying a gun. How do we protect ourselves from someone who is irresponsible, or from some out of the blue madman who wants to kill people? There are no easy answers, but it would be helpful if Disney focused more on prevention. At the airport, I do not want to walk a through a metal detector, or have my belongings scanned, but if it prevents even one tragedy, then I am willing to go through the trouble.

Well I can assure you that without a gun, it will be a lot harder for you to protect yourself from an armed madman.

 

[Gumbo4x4]

This is the problem...and this is what makes us feel so vulnerable. It makes us feel uneasy to know that we could be standing in line at Disney, or anywhere for that matter, next to someone who has no business carrying a gun. How do we protect ourselves from someone who is irresponsible, or from some out of the blue madman who wants to kill people? There are no easy answers, but it would be helpful if Disney focused more on prevention. At the airport, I do not want to walk a through a metal detector, or have my belongings scanned, but if it prevents even one tragedy, then I am willing to go through the trouble.

Look at it this way, the vast majority of those guns will never leave the holster while in a public place EVER.

On the contrary, every day you get out on the road and surround yourself with many people who have no business operating a motor vehicle. And unlike those holstered pistols, those cars are BEING USED by these unqualified operators. And one of them is far more likely to injure or kill you.

 

[ut*disney]

But haven't I also disarmed the guy who bought his gun on a lark at a gun show at the fairgrounds, has no idea how to really use it, hasn't had any instruction, and keeps it in the glovebox because he thinks it's cool?

Honestly -- if every gun owner was like you and knew how and when to use their weapon and didn't decide to carry just because it's fun to have a gun, I'd have no issue with everyone walking around armed. If everyone who wanted to buy a gun had to pass a test, like we all have to do to drive, I'd be a-okay with it all. But that's not how it works.

So if posting "No Guns Please" at my business stops even one person from bringing his gun inside where he might discharge it by accident, then I'm good with that.

I've lived on my own for over 40 years and have never felt the need to be armed. When I see someone write, "You are scared if I have one, I am scared to not have one.", I always wonder where it is you live and what it is you're scared of. In all my time on this planet, I've never once been in a situation where I thought, "Man ... if I only had a gun right now." Maybe that makes me naive or just really lucky, I don't know.

I have, however, been in two situations where very nervous gun owners pulled their guns to thwart perceived threats (a noise in an alley; a stranger on a street). In one case, they fired -- wildly -- and thankfully only managed to ding a dumpster. They pulled the gun and shot before even saying anything. I looked at him and said, "What the hell was that?!" and he said that he was nervous and "it just happened."

In the other, the "stranger on the street" ended up being an off-duty cop who was walking his dog. THAT was an interesting conversation. And in that case, I had no idea that my friend even owned a gun. When asked about it later, he said, "I wanted to protect myself". He'd never taken any shooting practice, no time on a range, no safety class, nothing.

Those are the people who shouldn't carry guns. But there's no one out there telling them that.

While some buy a "gun at a gun show at the fairgrounds," they also buy their weapons off the street. Do you really think you can disarm a criminal? If the intent to harm is there, they will find a way to obtain the weapon of their choice.

There are tests that are required to conceal carry, as there are retests, requalification standards, etc. to maintain conceal carry. Most of the criminals do not have a CHL because they do not originally qualify to conceal carry. How do you plan on stopping the criminals from purchasing?

Posting a sign at a business will not stop a criminal with the intent to do harm. That is not even logical to believe that way as their intent is to cause harm to someone, which is against the law.

The individuals you refer to for examples are your personal experiences, as we all have them. When trained with a weapon, it is drilled into you to very LOUDLY state you have a weapon, your intention with your weapon and give warning. You are also instructed the simple measure of pulling a weapon, any weapon, is intent to use deadly force and must be warranted as a last resort because your life is in danger.

A gun is a very serious item, as a vehicle. Yes, I am using this analogy because it has been brought up here. How many individuals do you think is behind the wheel of an automobile, with no practice, nor enough time in an automobile, class instruction, etc.? If a wreck occurs with this person, or an individual texting while driving, drinking while driving, speeding, etc., it is reckless endangerment at best. What about all of the illegals here in America? They cannot go to the DMV to obtain their license, or proper instruction in defensive driving, but they drive.

There are people who should not carry guns. But there is nothing you can do to stop them. A criminal will always find a way to reach their outcome.

The whole gun issue is a lose/lose conversation. There is not a right or wrong, but a mere difference in opinion. Each side will argue their "valid point" to the end of time. However, it is unlikely either side will go to "the dark side." The fact is, in the USA it is our right TO or NOT to carry if you meet the qualifications as set forth by the governing state.

 

[capegirl]

Well I can assure you that without a gun, it will be a lot harder for you to protect yourself from an armed madman.

Not everyone is comfortable handling a deadly weapon, myself included. I can respect the rights of individuals who get the proper training to carry a gun, but this does not mean that I want the MK to become Six Gun City.

 

[TurkA77]

I'd also like to add that the few negligent discharges recently that i have heard about happened in cars where the operator was entering a place that prohibited them. Negligent discharges will only happen while handling your weapon. When you force people to handle their gun more than is needed, the chance for negligent discharge is going to be higher. Now add in the extra difficulty of doing it in a car (which can be done very safely, but when untrained feels a little unnatural) you are greatly increasing the likely hood of it happening. Let us leave them in our holsters.

 

[AmyB2006]

Not everyone is comfortable handling a deadly weapon, myself included. I can respect the rights of individuals who get the proper training to carry a gun, but this does not mean that I want the MK to become Six Gun City.

Agreed on all accounts.

I was merely attempting to answering your question of " How do we protect ourselves from someone who is irresponsible, or from some out of the blue madman who wants to kill people?"

The not so great truth is, you can't. There will always be irresponsible people and/or some madman out there with intent to harm. The problem is my opinion and your opinion on how to defend ourselves is different. And when you have places that want all of the law abiding citizens not to carry guns on their private property, you've now disarmed everyone that might have had the ability to protect anyone.

Like pp said, it's just a difference of opinion. And neither side is going to "see the light" LOL.

ETA... I would like to add one point though. There are two kinds of people who carry guns. Responsible people that will follow rules, that have been trained to carry, that know how to handle their weapon. Irresponsible people that have no license, possibly criminals, that won't give a crap what rule you have posted on your front door, with possible intent to harm.

If I owned a business, I know who I'd rather have more of inside.

 

[Lewisc]

Can anyone produce a news link documenting a single occasion where an armed guest at any Disney property used a licensed firearm to defend himself, or anyone for that matter, from a madman/criminal?

I can't seeing any. On the other hand a loaded firearm, left out in the open is an accident waiting to happen.

 

[AmyB2006]

Can anyone produce a news link documenting a single occasion where an armed guest at any Disney property used a licensed firearm to defend himself, or anyone for that matter, from a madman/criminal?

I can't seeing any. On the other hand a loaded firearm, left out in the open is an accident waiting to happen.

Absolutely! Totally agree. He was very careless.

And you're probably right, I don't think there have been any armed madmen at Disney. Yet.

 

[Gumbo4x4]

Can anyone produce a news link documenting a single occasion where an armed guest at any Disney property used a licensed firearm to defend himself, or anyone for that matter, from a madman/criminal?

I can't seeing any. On the other hand a loaded firearm, left out in the open is an accident waiting to happen.

Not that I can think of, but the same was true of almost every site of a tragedy until "that one time".

That's not to say I think Disney needs to change their policy, nor is there any justification for breaking their rules - especially if you can't secure your weapon.

But the common denominator in most of these large scale tragedies is they tend to take place in previously "safe" places.

 

[hburke01]

This discussion is turning to the age old question: are there crazy gun wielding madmen because of the many who take advantage of their right to bear arms or are there more people carrying because there are crazy gun wielding madmen ?

 

[Gumbo4x4]

This discussion is turning to the age old question: are there crazy gun wielding madmen because of the many who take advantage of their right to bear arms or are there more people carrying because there are crazy gun wielding madmen ?

Chicken and egg, eh?

 

[capegirl]

Not that I can think of, but the same was true of almost every site of a tragedy until "that one time".

That's not to say I think Disney needs to change their policy, nor is there any justification for breaking their rules - especially if you can't secure your weapon.

But the common denominator in most of these large scale tragedies is they tend to take place in previously "safe" places.

Yes, there is always that one time. The people of Boston were blindsided by the Marathon bombings. Everyone would have thought Boston's July 4th celebration would perhaps be a likely target; not the Marathon. We learned , once again, that Americans are great 'responders' in the aftermath of tragic events. The City of Boston learned that it needs to take a different approach when it comes to event security, and focus more on prevention in order to protect the public.

 

[AmyB2006]

The City of Boston learned that it needs to take a different approach when it comes to event security, and focus more on prevention in order to protect the public.

Just out of curiosity. How would they have prevented that bombing? Honestly asking.

You are never ever going to be able to "cure" crazy madman with intent to harm people. You can "prevent" all you want, and put people through all kinds of security measures. Crazy, will always find a way.

 

[capegirl]

Just out of curiosity. How would they have prevented that bombing? Honestly asking.

You are never ever going to be able to "cure" crazy madman with intent to harm people. You can "prevent" all you want, and put people through all kinds of security measures. Crazy, will always find a way.

The investigation of these bombings is far from over. There were 'red flags' all over the place about these guys, especially the eldest brother. It was a total security failure on many levels, and it could have been prevented before their killing spree had even begun. The attitude that crazy will always find a way, is one of complacency; it screams 'why bother'? I am certain that there will be major security changes in place for next years Boston Marathon, and I am also certain that there will be polices put in place regarding backpacks at this event.

 

[AmyB2006]

The investigation of these bombings is far from over. There were 'red flags' all over the place about these guys, especially the eldest brother. It was a total security failure on many levels, and it could have been prevented before their killing spree had even begun. The attitude that crazy will always find a way, is one of complacency; it screams 'why bother'? I am certain that there will be major security changes in place for next years Boston Marathon, and I am also certain that there will be polices put in place regarding backpacks at this event.

The fact that there were red flags everywhere, as you say, and yet again people didn't act screams of complacency.

My statement is simple fact. You are never going to rid this world of crazy people with intent to do harm to others.

If you think you can I would love to see you try. Really. Lol.

 

[Gumbo4x4]

I see both sides of the crazy. You do have to take precautions where you can while at the same time acknowledging that nothing is ever 100 percent effective.

 

[capegirl]

The fact that there were red flags everywhere, as you say, and yet again people didn't act screams of complacency.

My statement is simple fact. You are never going to rid this world of crazy people with intent to do harm to others.

If you think you can I would love to see you try. Really. Lol.

When those in authority become complacent, the toxic attitude trickles down; we're fighting a losing battle, so why bother?

Action is a great restorer and builder of confidence. Inaction is not only the result, but the cause, of fear. Perhaps the action you take will be successful; perhaps different action or adjustments will have to follow. But any action is better than no action at all.

Norman Vincent Peale

 

[TurkA77]

Can anyone produce a news link documenting a single occasion where an armed guest at any Disney property used a licensed firearm to defend himself, or anyone for that matter, from a madman/criminal?

I can't seeing any. On the other hand a loaded firearm, left out in the open is an accident waiting to happen.

Disney, no, but a quick google search will reveal plenty of instances where an armed good guy has stopped an armed bad guy. The media does a pretty good job of keeping it out of the national news, but there are plenty of online sources where you can read about it.