Gulf oil spill

[SaraJayne]

Okay I stand corrected. Last year's earnings for BP were $20 billion which is slightly lower than the $24 billion derived from the the $66 million a day number you quoted. Return on investment 7.57% which is in the middle for International Energy Companies. That is based on Revenues of $367 billion vs costs of $303 billion which puts them in the middle of Major Energy Companies. Still their return is by no means obscene again based on the fact that many companies and industries have much higher return on assets invested with much less risk involved.

I have no idea what you just said.

Okay, I do, but I had to read it three times (slowly) to understand it.

 

[Lanshark]

What happens to those that depend on the area to earn a living? If there are no fish, there are no fishermen. If the fishermen go under how about the businesses that fishermen support. The boat mechanics, the gear suppliers and so on.

If there are no tourists then the hotels, restaurants and businesses that depend on the tourism dollar are in trouble.
Property values along the coast will take a hit. The environmental impact is tremendous but the economic and psychological impact is also devastating.

I don't blame BP as much as I blame our government for allowing oil companies to set their own rules because they are huge political contributors.

 

[SaraJayne]

For those near a TV, Rick Sanchez is on CNN right now, speaking to a professor about this very thing.

And man, this guy (Prof Satish Nagarajaiah) is scary smart. Which is why I guess he's a Prof.

 

[TheZue]

I think BP should be made to pay every penny back, screw the cap. And Mexico should go after them too, it must impact them as well.

Honestly I think this is everyone's fault. I don't feel so good about going car rides for "fun" right now. It's one thing when it hits your budget, it's another when you know that it's your habits that you share with everyone that led to this. Yes BP should have had a regulator on there, but no matter how or where we get oil out it's a liquid, some is going to spill every so often.

 

[SaraJayne]

I think BP should be made to pay every penny back, screw the cap. And Mexico should go after them too, it must impact them as well.

Honestly I think this is everyone's fault. I don't feel so good about going car rides for "fun" right now. It's one thing when it hits your budget, it's another when you know that it's your habits that you share with everyone that led to this. Yes BP should have had a regulator on there, but no matter how or where we get oil out it's a liquid, some is going to spill every so often.

I agree with you.

 

[Colleen27]

There are statutory limits set out there for the private liability that BP will owe, as there should be. If there wasn't they would end up bankrupt and paying nothing.

With the current limits, they may as well be paying nothing. The cap is at less than 10% of the last estimate of costs that I saw, and if we learned anything from the Exxon Valdez and subsequent clean up, the real costs will be many, many times what is currently being forecast.

In the long run, I'll be surprised if BP is held responsible for more than 1 or 2% of the directly attributable costs, and none of the indirect costs like cancer and other illness rates that will suddenly spike (but won't be proven to be a result of exposure to toxic oil and dispersants).

 

[Colleen27]

What happens to those that depend on the area to earn a living? If there are no fish, there are no fishermen. If the fishermen go under how about the businesses that fishermen support. The boat mechanics, the gear suppliers and so on.

If there are no tourists then the hotels, restaurants and businesses that depend on the tourism dollar are in trouble.
Property values along the coast will take a hit. The environmental impact is tremendous but the economic and psychological impact is also devastating.

I don't blame BP as much as I blame our government for allowing oil companies to set their own rules because they are huge political contributors.

Amen! But just watch... In a month's time, everyone will have forgotten about the long history of safety abuses, the undue lobbying interests, even the repeated block of the bill that could have increased the cap to hold BP responsible, and will have moved on to blaming politicians for resorting to a gas tax to fund the cleanup and railing about all those people this has/will put out of work needing assistance.

 

[brerrabbit]

I have no idea what you just said.

Okay, I do, but I had to read it three times (slowly) to understand it.

Sorry, sometimes I type my thoughts and the fingers don't keep up with the brain. Bottom line BP should pay but their earnings and return on investment is not out of line with other big oil companies. And big oil companies numbers are really big because finding and producing oil takes a lot of money. The return they see on their investment is not out of line when looked at on a percentage return basis. On a personal level think of it this way, you can invest a lot of money in a CD and earn 1.5% return with virtually no risk or you can look to make 15% or more in the stock market but have much more risk. A 7.57% return with the risk of a Gulf Oil Well blowout and the ramifications of such an event might not always be the best way to invest money.

 

[minkydog]

Go down there and tell the people of the Gulf Coast this. Are you kidding? This is bigger than the Valdez spill. This will ruin peoples livlihood for a long time, maybe a generation.

Just *a* generation? More like 1000s of generations, if we have to wait for Mother Earth to make things right. IMO, fishing, crabbing, and shrimping are finished in Lousiana. Sure, those families will get a settlement(eventually ) but in the meantime, what are they gonna do? They have equipment loans, house loans, car loans, school loans, just like every other small businessman. But the thing is, they can't just pack up the shrimp boat and move to Nebraska to start over. In the meantime, how are they to pay their bills? And how is this going to affect those generations in the immediate future who have suddenly lost a way of life that stretches back to the Acadians.

unbelievable and crass.

And there is no hind sight issue.


But I live and work in Southern Louisiana so it means something to me.
A little emotional? Guess so.
But thats how the French revolution started....emotion and passion.

Indeed, Vive la revolution! My whole family lives on the Gulf Coast. I grew up about 10 miles from Bayou la Batre(AL). If you've seen Forrest Gump, you've seen it. I took my drivers test in sight of those shrimp boats. EVen though the oil hasn't actually touched the Alabama coast, everyone there is extremely worried about it. My sister in MS has a theory about the cleanup: If this oil spill had happened off the coast of Oregon or California, or in Hudson or Chesapeake Bay, you can bet your booties that they would have pounced on it tut suit! Somehow, the dear folks in Washington can't seem to wrap their great big heads around the environmental impact of spilling oil in some Lousiana wetlands. I mean, you know? nuthin' but gators and marsh and stuff down there anyway... Not sure that I totally buy her theory but having lived in the deep South all my life I have to say,I've seen it all done before. Two words: Hurricane Katrina

 

[Muffin]

Any employees of any of the involved companies (MMS included) who had prior knowledge of the shortcuts being taken should be criminally prosecuted.

BP should have their MMS operator approval revoked and never again be able to conduct drilling operations in the Federal waters.

And (this was actually Eddie Vedder's idea, but it bears repeating) BP executives should send their kids to South Louisiana during their summer breaks to help clean up the mess.

 

[FireDancer]

And (this was actually Eddie Vedder's idea, but it bears repeating) BP executives should send their kids to South Louisiana during their summer breaks to help clean up the mess.

Ah, so now it is the children of the executives fault too, not just the executives.

Once we start sending the children of bank robbers and rapists to prison with them and make the children of sex offenders have to register then perhaps that plan will make sense.

 

[Muffin]

Ah, so now it is the children of the executives fault too, not just the executives.

Once we start sending the children of bank robbers and rapists to prison with them and make the children of sex offenders have to register then perhaps that plan will make sense.

Jesus christ, did you honestly take that literally?

 

[handinpocket]

Jesus christ, did you honestly take that literally?

I thought you sounded serious.

 

[chisnpeke]

Any employees of any of the involved companies (MMS included) who had prior knowledge of the shortcuts being taken should be criminally prosecuted.

BP should have their MMS operator approval revoked and never again be able to conduct drilling operations in the Federal waters.

And (this was actually Eddie Vedder's idea, but it bears repeating) BP executives should send their kids to South Louisiana during their summer breaks to help clean up the mess.

Not their kids, how about the executives themselves?

 

[MarkBarbieri]

Wow, there is a lot of misinformation in this thread.

First, this was not preventable by a $500,000 valve. I suspect that this comes from the fact that Brazil and Norway require a remote actuator for the blow out preventer and the US does not. These have been widely quoted as costing $500,000 and one was not in place for this well.

The remote actuator doesn't stop the flow of gas or oil. It is used to trigger the blow out preventer (BOP). It is the BOP that actually shuts off the well. The BOP is normally triggered automatically whenever the pressure or flow rate exceeds a preset limit. If that fails, there is a remote cabled switch on the drilling rig. If that fails, there is a manual switch on the BOP itself. The advantage to having a remote actuator is that it can be triggered by someone not on the drilling rig if there is an accident that prevents the switch in the rig from being used. Without one, when a blowout like this occurs and the BOP doesn't get triggered automatically or by someone on the rig, you have to wait until a remote vessel can dive down to the BOP and trigger it.

In this particular incident, having the $500,000 remote actuator would not have helped. The BOP itself was faulty. Triggering it wasn't the problem. It didn't work. At this point, we don't know why. There are indications that some portion of the BOP may have been leaking hydraulic fluid and been faulty. There are also reports that junks of rubber from the BOP came up with the drilling mud, indicating that it had broken.


This will unquestionably be damaging to the environment. How badly or for how long is unclear. A similar incident occurred in the Gulf of Mexico in 1979 off of Mexico. The oil slick hit Mexico and Texas. It was nasty. I remember finding tar balls years afterward (although some of those may have been caused by natural seepage or other sources). The environment survived and there are few traces remaining today. That was about 30 years.


Should Mexico be compensated? It seems unlikely. The current flow patterns appear to be taking the spill north and east, so Mexico will probably not be affected except for the impact on migratory birds and marine life. Even if Mexico is affected, it is worth remembering that they refused to pay any claims related to the Ixtoc spill, claiming sovereign immunity.


The $75 million cap applies to damages to private parties. BP is still on the hook for all of the cleanup and remediation costs. The cap comes from the Oil Pollution Act of 1990. The act created a fund that is to be used to pay for damages. Every oil company has been paying into the fund since the act passed. It is that money that should cover the cost to fisherman, beach hotels, etc. Congress has talked about changing the law and retroactively applying it. Personally, I think that the liability limits are too low, but I abhor the idea of changing laws retroactively. Doing so corrupts the whole concept of being a nation ruled by laws.

 

[handinpocket]

Wow, there is a lot of misinformation in this thread.

First, this was not preventable by a $500,000 valve. I suspect that this comes from the fact that Brazil and Norway require a remote actuator for the blow out preventer and the US does not. These have been widely quoted as costing $500,000 and one was not in place for this well.

The remote actuator doesn't stop the flow of gas or oil. It is used to trigger the blow out preventer (BOP). It is the BOP that actually shuts off the well. The BOP is normally triggered automatically whenever the pressure or flow rate exceeds a preset limit. If that fails, there is a remote cabled switch on the drilling rig. If that fails, there is a manual switch on the BOP itself. The advantage to having a remote actuator is that it can be triggered by someone not on the drilling rig if there is an accident that prevents the switch in the rig from being used. Without one, when a blowout like this occurs and the BOP doesn't get triggered automatically or by someone on the rig, you have to wait until a remote vessel can dive down to the BOP and trigger it.

In this particular incident, having the $500,000 remote actuator would not have helped. The BOP itself was faulty. Triggering it wasn't the problem. It didn't work. At this point, we don't know why. There are indications that some portion of the BOP may have been leaking hydraulic fluid and been faulty. There are also reports that junks of rubber from the BOP came up with the drilling mud, indicating that it had broken.


This will unquestionably be damaging to the environment. How badly or for how long is unclear. A similar incident occurred in the Gulf of Mexico in 1979 off of Mexico. The oil slick hit Mexico and Texas. It was nasty. I remember finding tar balls years afterward (although some of those may have been caused by natural seepage or other sources). The environment survived and there are few traces remaining today. That was about 30 years.


Should Mexico be compensated? It seems unlikely. The current flow patterns appear to be taking the spill north and east, so Mexico will probably not be affected except for the impact on migratory birds and marine life. Even if Mexico is affected, it is worth remembering that they refused to pay any claims related to the Ixtoc spill, claiming sovereign immunity.


The $75 million cap applies to damages to private parties. BP is still on the hook for all of the cleanup and remediation costs. The cap comes from the Oil Pollution Act of 1990. The act created a fund that is to be used to pay for damages. Every oil company has been paying into the fund since the act passed. It is that money that should cover the cost to fisherman, beach hotels, etc. Congress has talked about changing the law and retroactively applying it. Personally, I think that the liability limits are too low, but I abhor the idea of changing laws retroactively. Doing so corrupts the whole concept of being a nation ruled by laws.

Thanks for the information.

 

[Poppinsme]

Wow, there is a lot of misinformation in this thread.

First, this was not preventable by a $500,000 valve. I suspect that this comes from the fact that Brazil and Norway require a remote actuator for the blow out preventer and the US does not. These have been widely quoted as costing $500,000 and one was not in place for this well.

The remote actuator doesn't stop the flow of gas or oil. It is used to trigger the blow out preventer (BOP). It is the BOP that actually shuts off the well. The BOP is normally triggered automatically whenever the pressure or flow rate exceeds a preset limit. If that fails, there is a remote cabled switch on the drilling rig. If that fails, there is a manual switch on the BOP itself. The advantage to having a remote actuator is that it can be triggered by someone not on the drilling rig if there is an accident that prevents the switch in the rig from being used. Without one, when a blowout like this occurs and the BOP doesn't get triggered automatically or by someone on the rig, you have to wait until a remote vessel can dive down to the BOP and trigger it.

In this particular incident, having the $500,000 remote actuator would not have helped. The BOP itself was faulty. Triggering it wasn't the problem. It didn't work. At this point, we don't know why. There are indications that some portion of the BOP may have been leaking hydraulic fluid and been faulty. There are also reports that junks of rubber from the BOP came up with the drilling mud, indicating that it had broken.


This will unquestionably be damaging to the environment. How badly or for how long is unclear. A similar incident occurred in the Gulf of Mexico in 1979 off of Mexico. The oil slick hit Mexico and Texas. It was nasty. I remember finding tar balls years afterward (although some of those may have been caused by natural seepage or other sources). The environment survived and there are few traces remaining today. That was about 30 years.


Should Mexico be compensated? It seems unlikely. The current flow patterns appear to be taking the spill north and east, so Mexico will probably not be affected except for the impact on migratory birds and marine life. Even if Mexico is affected, it is worth remembering that they refused to pay any claims related to the Ixtoc spill, claiming sovereign immunity.


The $75 million cap applies to damages to private parties. BP is still on the hook for all of the cleanup and remediation costs. The cap comes from the Oil Pollution Act of 1990. The act created a fund that is to be used to pay for damages. Every oil company has been paying into the fund since the act passed. It is that money that should cover the cost to fisherman, beach hotels, etc. Congress has talked about changing the law and retroactively applying it. Personally, I think that the liability limits are too low, but I abhor the idea of changing laws retroactively. Doing so corrupts the whole concept of being a nation ruled by laws.

http://www.wwltv.com/news/gulf-oil-...-moments-before-after-explosion-94964369.html

Please read this article.

lxtoc I oil spill-1979. 2nd largest oil spill in the gulf of of Mexico and the world.
Took 9-10 months to cap and Red Adair was brought in to help.
Texas had over 2 months to get ready for the spill to reach there shores.
162 miles of beach were affected and over 140,000,000 gallons of oil reached Texas.

Here in Louisiana we don't have 2 months to get ready.
39,000,000 gallons have already leaked in only 5 weeks.

 

[palmtreegirl]

Jesus christ, did you honestly take that literally?

 

[handinpocket]

Yeah, I was pretty offended by the use of JC too (at least I think that is what offended you, apologies if I'm off base). Really an unnecessary way to get the point across on message boards, imo.

 

[FireDancer]

Jesus christ, did you honestly take that literally?

Only my friends refer to me by that name and based on the reactionary BS all over this thread I did take it seriously since I'm sure the measure would be supported by some who have no concept of free will.