Ground beef actually contains "pink slime"

[Geoff_M]

Yes and as a chemist I also know that my body creates carbon dioxide and nitrogen too but I also know that it can kill me it I start inhaling and absorbing this crap.

Then as chemist, you probably know what's called The First Rule of Toxicology: "The Dose Makes the Poison." The problem with such media generated food scares is that they often foment an absolutest view that something is "bad". The point that princessmom29 makes is perfectly valid. It's similar to the "Dreadful Toxins Gambit" that many anti-vaccine loons try and use to scare moms because some vaccines contain traces of formaldehyde while overlooking the fact that the human body manufactures its own formaldehyde, in quantities larger than found in vaccines, as an input to other biological processes.

 

[Pea-n-Me]

that is just the thing. You CANNOT tell what companies use it or don't , unless they disclose the infromation. I don't really understand the concern however, becuase small amount of ammonia left behind by the gas treatment is similar in concentration to that produced in our own bodies by the digestive process and poses no health risk whatsoever. It really doesn't make a difference.

Well my concern isn't new or the result of any media blitz.

I got to live through the real life nightmare of an EColi poisoning. Until you see the insides of your child's intestines sloughing out over the course of a week while nurses push morphine directly into a vein to help quell pain and screams, you'll never understand the "concern". My child is fortunate to be alive as others with the exact same germ from the exact same source - died.

Although I no longer eat ground beef (from any source) I am - and have been - aware of the ammoniaization (?) process of some beef. I agree it's probably a good thing (though debatable) as it's an attempt to rid the beef of pathogens before it gets to the public, even it it might be a bit of a bandaid solution IMO. I do think washing (or gassing) with ammonia does leave a chemical taste not only in beef but in poultry and other meat, and I think the public has a right to know this is happening to their food and that there should be disclosure so they (we) can make a choice about what we choose to buy and serve to our families. Companies doing business as usual are not going to change their ways voluntarily - unfortunately it does sometimes take public pressure to gain transparency and institute changes for the better good. (Although food safety is an absolute quagmire as it stands now, IMO.)

As for my original question about whether organic beef is washed/gassed with ammonia, I would really like to know. I've studied this issue a LOT and I've never seen it referenced before here, which is why I am asking. I know it's not something beef companies want to readily disclose, but some posters seem to be in the know about it so I was asking for references. I think that most people believe that organic beef is "safe" from either bacteria or chemicals and are willing to pay astronomical prices because of this. Even if we want to split hairs about whether ammonia is "naturally occuring" or not, I don't believe that most people know or believe it's added to their food, especially when talking organic. They/we should have the choice of whether to eat it.

I am actually glad to see this media storm on this issue if it helps people avoid this type of illness, even if it does ruffle a few feathers (pun intended) from meat suppliers along the way.

 

[marie1203]

One of the many reasons why I don't eat meat. Yuck yuck.

 

[Pea-n-Me]

For everyone who objects so strongly to the ammonia, I would ask this:
Do you really want to consume beef potentially tainted with ecoli or other patogens just becuase you don't like the idea of it being treated with ammonia, or would you rather consume beef that has been treated with a safe, naturally occuring antibacterial that has a really good track record of getting rid of those pathogens and is not harmful to humans? I am taking the treated beef here, hands down.

As long as people realize that this treatment with ammonia is not completely fool proof. USDA testing

Beef can still contain deadly EColi and other pathogens despite treatment with ammonia, and other meat like poultry and pork can still also harbor food borne illness as well despite the same.

Furthermore, we don't even know who's treating with ammonia and who's not. Certainly not all because it takes money, time and specialized equipment, etc., and it also takes committment from those who believe there is a problem and want to protect the public if they can. Some holdouts still think it's not a big deal or don't care one way or the other.

Peanuts, poultry, cookie dough, strawberried, canteloupe, sprouts, spinach, etc., well who knows what's going on there. Until they figure out a bacterial "kill step" that everyone's happy with, we'll continue to see problems in these and other food items.

 

[princessmom29]

Yes and as a chemist I also know that my body creates carbon dioxide and nitrogen too but I also know that it can kill me it I start inhaling and absorbing this crap.
You inhale and absorb both carbon dioxide and nitrogen every day. It can be dangerous in high concentration in the body, however, just like almost everythingels, including water and oxygen. Ithink I still want ot absorb those.
Stop playing like just because the body uses these compounds that all of a sudden that it makes it safe.
We also know that our body stores fats and lipids but yet we also know that too much fat will kill ya.
Key word here is too much. the amount of ammonia transferred here is miniscule. Far too little to have advers effects.
Gimme a break.
The ammonia they are spraying on the beef is NOT the same composition or breakdown as naturally occuring. THAT is why most doctors and nutritionist will advise you to get your vitamins other stuff from non processed foods not from vitamins and supplements. NYT study has shown that some of the beef treated after the ammonia spray had ph's way over the 10 (naturally beef is around the 6 level).
If you are truly a chemist then you must know that this is just not true. Ammonia is a simple molecule made of one nitrogen atom and 3 hydrogen atoms. It is composed of exactly that no matter where it is from. It is chemically identical to all other molecules of ammonia. It is a base and will function to raise pH. that is the point of using it as an antibacterial. The increased pH is not harmful, and it will follow the exact same chemical pathways in the body as any other ammonia molecule.

Vitamins and minerals are another class of molecules altogether that are much more complex and can have many chemically similar versions that perfrom almost identically, with subtle differences. They are not one molecules with one specific structure like ammonia, but rather are devided into groups based on structure and function. To compare ammonia to vitamins in terms of chemical composition and reactivity is an apples to oranges comparision. The functions in the body of vitamins are exponetially more complex.
I totally agree this is a personal decision. for me it's simply I will avoid it at all cost. I don't like the process, I don't like the fact that they start with beef trimmings that are normally labeled unfit for human consumption (so now it's supposed to be ok?) but then I don't like corn feed beef in the first place.

You are right, it is a personal decision, but I would at least hope one would want all of the correct facts before deciding.

 

[princessmom29]

As long as people realize that this treatment with ammonia is not completely fool proof. USDA testing

Beef can still contain deadly EColi and other pathogens despite treatment with ammonia, and other meat like poultry and pork can still also harbor food borne illness as well despite the same.

Furthermore, we don't even know who's treating with ammonia and who's not. Certainly not all because it takes money, time and specialized equipment, etc., and it also takes committment from those who believe there is a problem and want to protect the public if they can. Some holdouts still think it's not a big deal or don't care one way or the other.

Peanuts, poultry, cookie dough, strawberried, canteloupe, sprouts, spinach, etc., well who knows what's going on there. Until they figure out a bacterial "kill step" that everyone's happy with, we'll continue to see problems in these and other food items.

you are correct. NO method of treatment is 100% foolproof, but i would rather have any safe treatment than none at all, and O will still be following safe handling procedures.

Yes, it would be nice to know everything about the inner working s of every company. I don'tthink we ever will however.

 

[MistressMerryweather]

You are right, it is a personal decision, but I would at least hope one would want all of the correct facts before deciding.

That is just it. It doesn't matter what they are using, it's been added in the processing of the beef. The ammonia they are using did not occur naturally, therefore, it should say on the packaging, "treated with ammonia solution to aid in...".
I don't care what they call it and all the scientific running around means nothing.
The fact is that anything that is not beef or naturally occurring in beef should be fully disclosed on the packaging. The ammonia they are using is not what naturally occurred in the beef.
It's a slippery slope when you allow our freedom to know everything added to a food to be taken away. You let others make that choice for you and you lose the freedom to choose, and you don't get it back.

 

[princessmom29]

That is just it. It doesn't matter what they are using, it's been added in the processing of the beef. The ammonia they are using did not occur naturally, therefore, it should say on the packaging, "treated with ammonia solution to aid in...".
I don't care what they call it and all the scientific running around means nothing.
The fact is that anything that is not beef or naturally occurring in beef should be fully disclosed on the packaging. The ammonia they are using is not what naturally occurred in the beef.
It's a slippery slope when you allow our freedom to know everything added to a food to be taken away. You let others make that choice for you and you lose the freedom to choose, and you don't get it back.

I get it, I really do, but a line has to be drawn somewhere. It is just not practical to list every process food undergoes and everything used in those process with an explaination. You would be getting a 20 page booklet with your ground beef. This particular process raises no red flags for me as a scientist and I don't have a problem with it not being included in the labeling. THAT is why the sicence is important. It helps us make informed decisions about what is important information and what is not. This, IMO, is not important information that should be included in packaging because it doesn't negatively impact anyone. If evidence were ever forund that it does, it might change my mind.

 

[npmommie]

Because of all this talk about slime and ammonia I emailed the local farm where I occasionally get steak for dh.
I will report back the answer. I am sure I know it, but we will see.

 

[luvmy3]

That is just it. It doesn't matter what they are using, it's been added in the processing of the beef. The ammonia they are using did not occur naturally, therefore, it should say on the packaging, "treated with ammonia solution to aid in...".
I don't care what they call it and all the scientific running around means nothing.
The fact is that anything that is not beef or naturally occurring in beef should be fully disclosed on the packaging. The ammonia they are using is not what naturally occurred in the beef.
It's a slippery slope when you allow our freedom to know everything added to a food to be taken away. You let others make that choice for you and you lose the freedom to choose, and you don't get it back.

Who has taken away the freedom to know everything added to your food? The information is out there, you just have to look for it.
I'll agree that it should be put on the label by the manufacturers, but the fact that isn't doesn't mean that any of my freedoms have been taken away.

 

[princessmom29]

Because of all this talk about slime and ammonia I emailed the local farm where I occasionally get steak for dh.
I will report back the answer. I am sure I know it, but we will see.

If they are butchering onsite and not using a processor, then likely they aren't mass producing gound beef so this wouldn't even be on thier radar as something to do. It wouldn't effect your steak anyway as the procees is used on ground beef where there is a much higher chance of ecoli transmission becuase the meat is ground. Any ecoli on the surface of a steak would almost vertianly be killed in the cooking porcess. In ground beef, it gets mixed in.

 

[npmommie]

If they are butchering onsite and not using a processor, then likely they aren't mass producing gound beef so this wouldn't even be on thier radar as something to do. It wouldn't effect your steak anyway as the procees is used on ground beef where there is a much higher chance of ecoli transmission becuase the meat is ground. Any ecoli on the surface of a steak would almost vertianly be killed in the cooking porcess. In ground beef, it gets mixed in.

Yes, I know it won't affect the steak, I asked them about ground beef.
and you are right it was not even on their radar. they butcher and process on site. the owners daughter emailed me back and said when all this came up she even verified with their usda inspector about their process. apparently I am not the first to ask.
so they do not use pink slime, nor do they wash or gas poof the meat with ammonia.
no fillers. no chemicals.
it is just as I thought grass fed organic beef. 100 %.

 

[cm8]

Oh my word. It's because ammonia isn't beef. Ammonia is not beef. I am going to the store to buy beef, not beef with a puff of ammonia.
"Food grade" means nothing to me. This country is so messed up in what they deem "okay" for human consumption, it's not even funny.
It is about informed consent. I should have a say in what goes in my body, not led to believe one thing and fed another. I personally don't have a problem with the "trimmings", nor the slopping them around in a centrifuge.
It's the ammonia that I have a problem with.
I don't care about organic or not organic. Toe jam is organic, but I'd surely like to know if they are "puffing" my food with it.

Agreed and the same for medications and vaccinations

 

[MistressMerryweather]

Agreed and the same for medications and vaccinations

Oh no you didn't. LOL
I agree 100%.

 

[princessmom29]

Agreed and the same for medications and vaccinations

if you want this level of control, the only way to actually get it will be to buy a piece of land far enough from a city that it isnt getting and air pollution and have the soil throughly tested, then grow or raise everything you consume, and have no contact with anyone no doesn't do the same. otherwise, you are putting things you not have control over into your body.

vaccines are a whole other discussion which I am just of getting into because There is really just no convincing some that solid science outweighs superstition, speculation, and just plain falsehoods. it makes me too angry, because it hits too close to home for me.