Greyhound Bus crash in New York

[seashoreCM]

From one description of the Alabama accident, perhaps the bus driver should have plowed into an errant automobile rather than dive off the bridge. A whole subject of driver ed. could cover the topic of when not to swerve.

Would seat belts be interlocked with the propulsion system so the bus, like Test Track and Dinosaur vehicles, not be able to move until everyone is belted in? Would there have to be CM's going up and down the aisle to be sure everyone is wearing seat belts?

 

[Glorydaz]

back to the subject...my heart goes out to all those who lost someone, this morning, yesterday, anytime whether by plane, bus, train or car....whether it is one person or many.....the pain and sadness is the same.

I lost my 22 year old stepson in an automobile crash this past Memorial day and I can tell you with absolute clarity that it was, is and always will be the most devastating loss for all my days... every moment is a reminder. and so to all of you in the same situation, my heart goes out to you and your families.

Michelle

 

[Edd]

Lewis,

I remember a piece in a newspaper, many years ago, that covered why the Disney/Mears buses do not have seat belts. DCL and DME are Mears owned buses, not Disney. It was the question of money. So I am sure they can be installed on buses. They must be selling them with school buses because the article is copied from the newspaper which I have sitting beside me showing that seat belts are getting installed on school buses.

Seat belts will never be needed on a bus until it crashs, turns over or runs off the road into a wooded area along the roadways down here. Than seat belts will be needed immediately, but will not be available. You don't hear of many accidents because companies are protected by the state. The state will not give out an accident report, of a commercial vehicle, to anyone but the company or its official representative and the insurance company or its representative. I tried getting information about the accident on Disney property that I witnessed. No go Joe, I was informed by the highway patrol at their offices in Orlando. So there was no information in the newspaper about how many were hurt in that accident. Disney has kept its little secret.

Last of all studies that show buses don't need seat belts are, I think, based on industry propaganda.

 

[Lewisc]

Some news accounts think Princess Di would have lived if she was wearing a seat belt.

I'm not sure how many passengers in towncars wear seat belts. I'm not sure how many passengers would bother wearing a seat belt if buses have them.

The issue of seat belts on buses is more a federal issue than a Disney issue.

Lewis,

I remember a piece in a newspaper, many years ago, that covered why the Disney/Mears buses do not have seat belts. DCL and DME are Mears owned buses, not Disney. It was the question of money. So I am sure they can be installed on buses. They must be selling them with school buses because the article is copied from the newspaper which I have sitting beside me showing that seat belts are getting installed on school buses.

Seat belts will never be needed on a bus until it crashs, turns over or runs off the road into a wooded area along the roadways down here. Than seat belts will be needed immediately, but will not be available. You don't hear of many accidents because companies are protected by the state. The state will not give out an accident report, of a commercial vehicle, to anyone but the company or its official representative and the insurance company or its representative. I tried getting information about the accident on Disney property that I witnessed. No go Joe, I was informed by the highway patrol at their offices in Orlando. So there was no information in the newspaper about how many were hurt in that accident. Disney has kept its little secret.

Last of all studies that show buses don't need seat belts are, I think, based on industry propaganda.

 

[jodifla]

Lewis,

I remember a piece in a newspaper, many years ago, that covered why the Disney/Mears buses do not have seat belts. DCL and DME are Mears owned buses, not Disney. It was the question of money. So I am sure they can be installed on buses. They must be selling them with school buses because the article is copied from the newspaper which I have sitting beside me showing that seat belts are getting installed on school buses.

Seat belts will never be needed on a bus until it crashs, turns over or runs off the road into a wooded area along the roadways down here. Than seat belts will be needed immediately, but will not be available. You don't hear of many accidents because companies are protected by the state. The state will not give out an accident report, of a commercial vehicle, to anyone but the company or its official representative and the insurance company or its representative. I tried getting information about the accident on Disney property that I witnessed. No go Joe, I was informed by the highway patrol at their offices in Orlando. So there was no information in the newspaper about how many were hurt in that accident. Disney has kept its little secret.

Last of all studies that show buses don't need seat belts are, I think, based on industry propaganda.

Seat belts are not a panacea. People still die with seat belts on. And, there are upsides and downsides to seat belts on a bus, but you ignore the downside completely.

Buses are safer than cars, seatbelts or not. But accidents still kill people. It's a risk you take every time you get in a motorized vehicle.

If the bus catches fire, then all those children are left to burn alive on the bus. Is that a pretty picture?

Also, mass transit everyone has people standing...which shoots the seat belt idea all to heck as well.

Would you ban children from trains and subways as well?

 

[ztbz]

When do you suppose Mears/Disney will begin to install seat belts aboard the ME and DCL buses? Is there going to have to be deaths before they install seat belts? How long is everybody going to be laughing off the necessity of seats belts as an injury prevention device in the nuses. Of course Mears/Disney are not the only ones. The bus industry as a whole has to wake up.

Disney will not install seat belts on its Buses (except for W/C's) because if they did, they would have to double the fleet of buses (and Hire double the Bus Drivers) from the current 275 buses that they have now.

Disney needs the guests to stand up which can be up to 35 people on each route standing and Disney prefers not to have to spend anymore money on Transportation then they have to, which is why they are going to this new system next year with the GPS dispatch, they are going to this system to save money and do more service while spending less money on equiment and cast members.

ME and DCL buses are Mears Buses not Disney Buses, Disney only contracts Mears to run those routes, so it’s up to Mears on whether to have seat belts on them.

 

[Edd]

Seat belts still save more people than not. Of course buses are bigger and most people think they are safer than other vehicles. Is the theory "the bigger the safer" a good theory? Airplanes are bigger than buses and you are required to sit in a seatbelt on take off and landing. Of course if an airliner gets hit 30,000 feet up nothing can be done. There must be a reason for seatbelts on airliners.

My concern is because there is ratio of almost egual kids and adults on DCL and ME buses. Kids don't have to think for themselves. They go along with the thinking of the adults. Are you trading off a child's welfare and possibly yours for a free bus ride to Disney properties. Your voice can get Disney thinking into having its contractors provide you with a much safer ride to their properties.

 

[Edd]

Another bus in an accident in Atlanta. This time a tour bus built by the same company that builds the busses for Mears transportation. First report say 6 people killed, 20 walking wounded and 9 seriously injured. The bus carried a baseball team from Bluffton University in Ohio.

 

[seashoreCM]

>>> ... same company that built ...
Did the news report suggest a reason for the crash?

(Greater greater Boston) Quite recently a tour bus with a similar appearance to a DME bus had a wheel come off while en route. Another, from the same company which I won't name right here, skidded into a guard rail in the Valentine's Day storm. Driver error was cited in the latter crash.

 

[Edd]

I guess I will watch Paula Zahn tonight. Another 6 deaths maybe due to lack of seat belts. I hope and pray that it never happens here and the DCL, Magical Express or Mears bus lines. Maybe public opinion will take effect and shortly the DME and DCL bus lines will begin to equip themselves with seat belts.

I remember how everyone used to jump all over my case and call me a flamer when I mentioned seat belts on the DME busses. Well this thread is tracing a history of the bus crashes that are being publicized. It is not pretty so far. I was never able to get the information on the DME bus that crashed on 417 a couple of months ago. Of course Disney probably quieted everything down before the newspapers got out there.

It is amazing to me how many families disregard the safety of their children to save a few bucks and ride vehicles that have no seat belts and do not allow the use of baby seats, which, by the way, have a big history of saving lives when they are used.

I would love to see your comments. This thread has been to quiet after such a tragedy.

 

[Chip 'n Dale Express]

From the basics that I've seen, it looks to be driver fatigue. But thats purely my personal speculation based on the limited media coverage I've seen.

By the way, VanHool does offer seabelts as an option on their 2007 models. Not sure if the new DCL's have them or not. In any case, I'm not sure how effective they would have been in this tragic incedent.

 

[Chip 'n Dale Express]

>>> ... same company that built ...
Did the news report suggest a reason for the crash?

(Greater greater Boston) Quite recently a tour bus with a similar appearance to a DME bus had a wheel come off while en route. Another, from the same company which I won't name right here, skidded into a guard rail in the Valentine's Day storm. Driver error was cited in the latter crash.

That's like saying I saw a Chevy in an accident so that means Chevy's are prone to getting hit.

Lack of proper maintenance and poor driver skills/judgement should be blamed on the operator, not the coach builder. This isn't Fox news after all.

 

[Edd]

There was no driver fatigue on this bus. The new driver had just taken over 1 hour earlier. I guess no one can be sure how effective the seat belts would have been, beings no one had seat belts to put on. I am sure there would have been less bouncing around which may have caused a few less fatal injuries. I just heard there are only 5 states in the U.S. that mandate seat belts in busses.

While than who should the deaths be blamed on when studies show that seat belts save lives and every form of transportation uses seat belts except busses and trains. Trains transport the smallest amount of passenger traffic than all the other forms of transportation. Planes fly the most passengers of any transportation system and everyone buckles up before take off and before landing. Also when the weather is rough you have to buckle up.

It is particularly troublesome when you note the number of young kids and babies that are riding on the DME, just to save a few bucks. Other than central Florida and Mears I would bet the ridership of most bus systems range in age much older than the ridership in this area. This is a tragedy waiting to happen, because Disney has thrown pixie dust on those busses and everyone thinks nothing should happen to them.

I am stunned and my heart goes out to the parents who have lost their children they have worked the buts off to bring up.

 

[Chip 'n Dale Express]

Ironically enough I just got an e-mail stating that. Although taking over at 4:30 am means he had been upsince probably 3:30. Who knows if they got adequate sleep.

*shrug*

 

[seashoreCM]

It is particularly troublesome when you note the number of young kids and babies that are riding on the DME, just to save a few bucks. ... This is a tragedy waiting to happen, because Disney has thrown pixie dust on those busses and everyone thinks nothing should happen to them. I am stunned and my heart goes out to the parents who have lost their children they have worked the buts off to bring up.

All the families who ride Greyhound and Trailways and Peter Pan and Coach USA are in the same boat (I mean bus, which has a similar appearance). If I remember correctly, there were no injuries in the mishaps I mentioned earlier.

 

[CleveRocks]

A sad, terrible tragedy.

The bus plunged 30 feet off an overpass. Six people lost their lives, out of at least 34 people on board (I haven't seen a report of exactly how many people were on board, only that 28 others were injured).

Six out of 34. That's roughly one out of six.

Does anyone think that if a car or SUV with 6 seat-belted passengers plunged 30 feet off an overpass that ONLY one out of the 6 in that vehicle would perish? I mean, seat belts DO save lives and save injuries, but I didn't think they were magical.

I'll put it another way. You're driving at highway speed in an SUV; you and your passengers are properly wearing your lap belts and shoulder belts. Your vehicle for some reason goes through the guardrail and plunges down towards another concrete roadway. Do you expect to survive? Do you expect your passengers to survive? It's a horrible thought, I know, but let's be fair ....

 

[CleveRocks]

It is particularly troublesome when you note the number of young kids and babies that are riding on the DME, just to save a few bucks.

It is particularly troublesome when you note the number of young kids and babies that are riding on the Disney Transport buses, just to save a few bucks rather than renting cars, minivans and SUVs equipped with seatbelts.

Other than central Florida and Mears I would bet the ridership of most bus systems range in age much older than the ridership in this area. This is a tragedy waiting to happen, because Disney has thrown pixie dust on those busses and everyone thinks nothing should happen to them.

Respectfully, Edd, you'd lose that bet. I'll bet you've never lived in an urban area. I'm not talking about the outskirts of or upper-middle-class enclaves near cities, I'm talking the heart of big cities, where most people can't afford to travel to Disney (they don't even own cars), or where regardless of expense driving is just not a good option. New York. Philadelphia. Cleveland. Three cities I've lived in. CITIES, not suburbs. Three cities where many families ride the bus or stay home. And yes, plenty of these buses drive on the interstates (well, not in Manhattan) to get from one section of town to another, so it's not all slow city driving. Families are on those MTA, SEPTA, and RTA buses every day and night.

 

[Chip 'n Dale Express]

CNN reports a total of 35 people on board.

 

[Edd]

Yes, all the families who ride Greyhound, Trailways, Coach, USA and what Pete Pan are in the same way. All busses are at risk and companies keep putting off installing seat belts. I saw a fast clip in the CNN report last night, but I am not sure if I believe it.

Since 1990 plane crashes totaled 180. Bus crashes totaled 784,045. I am sorry that I didn't get hear anything else on that figure, but it was flashed across the screen and than immediately gone. I assume everyone will dispute the bus figure. They did it at the end of the news segment and than went to break. You know how that goes.

Eric, seems to ramble on about living in an Urban area. Busses traveling in an urban area move a lot slower than they ones on our highways. To tell you the truth I could give a crap less about that. His argument or lack of argument is distressing when you consider human lives.

I am talking about kids dying. Four teenagers and the bus driver and his wife, I think. Nine kids maimed for life, right now in critical condition, but expected to live, and twenty injured, but walking. What would have happened to any infants sitting on their mothers laps. I guess 6 people out of 34 dead isn't bad, as previous OP, seemed to suggest, because it might have been worse in an SUV or any other vehicle. What are people thinking?

Guess what. 1 kid out of 34 is a tragedy to me whether they are riding in a bus, plane, train, SUV or whatever. You know we spend millions of dollars, or maybe billions of dollars, to keep us safe from terrorists on a plane and so far there is very little evidence that anything has been prevented. It is a good sign that we are doing things right. We have spent millions again to prove the worth of seat belts, in saving lives, and one segment of transportation, bussing, has totally disregarded and fought all the results by not installing them on their vehicles. Seatbelts save lives and have proven their value many times over the years.

And it really amazes me how people think. My grandson, on the Disney Wonder, wanted to eat all the pizza, hamburgers, chicken fingers, paninis and drinks he could, because it was free. I had one heck of a time getting him to the good restaurants because he was always full.

150,000 of you are taking the DME to Disney each month and because it is free you are risking your loved ones instead of telling Disney/Mears you want seat belts and the ability to use baby seats on those busses.

 

[seashoreCM]

I'd be interested in getting a little more information about personal mishaps per passenger hour (time spent on board, not miles traveled) for transit buses, long distance buses, private cars, trains, taxis, commercial planes, private planes, etc. Mishaps to be categorized as death, critical injury, minor injury, etc.

Avoiding an accident and protecting the passengers are not quite the same. While Mears (also Greyhound, Coach USA, Fung Wah, Peter Pan, etc.) might be reluctant to install seat belts, perhaps better training the drivers to protect passengers may be feasible.