Gratuities and Tipping !

[TiggerDad3]

While your point is excellent, there is a big difference between
tipping based on one's perception of service
and
opting not to tip, period, several months before entering the restaurant

Reading a thread is usually an important part of participating in it!
At no point have I seen anyone post in here and say that it was thier intention to not tip ???????????
If you want to debate, at least bring a case.

 

[i3utterfli82]

Mm, nope. Unless the establishment is violating existing laws, you do not have a "right" to eat in any restaurant you choose. You have the right to eat in any restaurant in which the proprietor or manager chooses to allow you to eat.

Yes, and did you know (at least in the state of Florida) a server can deny you service for any reason without explanation.

 

[apostolic4life]

Mm, nope. Unless the establishment is violating existing laws, you do not have a "right" to eat in any restaurant you choose. You have the right to eat in any restaurant in which the proprietor or manager chooses to allow you to eat.

As a proprietor, I will assure you we have very little right to refuse service to anyone.........even dress codes can be questioned in court if the right lawyer wants to represent the case. Basically you have to let everyone in unless it could be detrimental to peace or safety of the establishment. Age is the only thing you can really refuse service on these days; under 18 must be accompanied by guardian/parent is the one that comes to mind.

 

[TiggerDad3]

Yes, and did you know (at least in the state of Florida) a server can deny you service for any reason without explanation.

I challenge you to find any restaurant on the DDP's that would refuse service based on the tip alone.

 

[apostolic4life]

While your point is excellent, there is a big difference between
tipping based on one's perception of service
and
opting not to tip, period, several months before entering the restaurant

Agreed!!!

 

[MaryKatesMom]

That said, I don't presume to impose my tipping standards on anyone else, or decide how they should spend their vacation budgets. If you can afford to eat at tableservice restaurants after paying for Mouse hotels & Mouse park tickets, then go for it. If you can afford to tip on top of that, then tip. But I don't believe that people should be shut out when their dollars only stretch so far. Some have to squeeze every last bit out of that last nickel to buy the magic of Disney. And just because they're not as affluent doesn't mean they should stay home until they are. For many families, that would mean staying home until the kids grew up & moved away (as my husband often says, most middle class families discover they're "rich" as soon as the last kid moves out!) Bottom line is, we shouldn't shut people out of great vacation experiences just because they can't afford to do everything top of the line.

I'll respectfully disagree. A vacation is not entitlement and to pay for it on the backs of the waitstaff, the hard working people who you choose not to pay for their services because you can get away with it is not socially acceptable.

I've never seen WDW "shut out" those visitors who choose to bring in a peanut butter sandwich instead of eating at the BD. There are plenty of options to provide sustainance but once someone hands me a glass of water, free at the water cooler, I am morally obligated to pay them for this extra service.

If you can not afford to tip the server then you should not hire one. Hence the "service" in table service.

 

[apostolic4life]

Yes, and did you know (at least in the state of Florida) a server can deny you service for any reason without explanation.

Just curious, but what gives a server the right to refuse service to any guest without permission of the owner/manager?? This could lead to some very tangled legal issues for the owner of the restaurant. If my servers ever refused service without explanation or permission they run the risk of termination! Servers are often not as powerful as they want guests to believe.

 

[MaryKatesMom]

I challenge you to find any restaurant on the DDP's that would refuse service based on the tip alone.

Hmm. Are you sure you want to be honest with your server and tell them you are planning on paying a flat rate and nothing they can do will change the amount you are going to pay them?

Get back to us on that.

 

[TiggerDad3]

Hmm. Are you sure you want to be honest with your server and tell them you are planning on paying a flat rate and nothing they can do will change the amount you are going to pay them?

Get back to us on that.

well if I were ever in that scenario... yes I would definately do that, because it is called honesty.
And I believe that 99% of the time the server would understand and appreciate that fact.
As well, I belive that in most every case the restaurant would still appreciate your patronage!

 

[Dumbo76]

In response to the post about everything not being the servers fault is not how I intended it to sound. Lots of times I knew if I made a mistake or a big error and knew my tip would be lowered, all of the apologies in the world wouldn't raise it up, but I was very humble about it and would own up to my mistakes. But I shouldn't have to own up to others mistakes or that you have had a bad day and want to take it out on somebody. I was always friendly, nice, tried to make things as pleasant as possible, fast and correct, but things happen. And even when they don't and the customer says they loved everything and the service was great they still give me a crappy tip. How should I feel? Servers are still human beings with feelings. I can remember quite a few times I went home crying because I worked so hard and came home with $25 bucks after tipping out the bartenders, the bus boys, the hostesses and the food runners. It seems like cheap people will try to justify their miserly habits any way they can. They say things like "society is not going to tell me how to spend my money." How many times has a server asked you for a tip? Yeah probably never, unless they really were at the end of their quickly fraying rope and wanted to get fired. If you can't afford the money to go out to eat, then you shouldn't go. You can't punish other people who also work hard and are trying just like you to have money for their families and bills. Try feeding your family on $360 a month. Thats all servers would make without tips. You are passing the buck by saying, "I'm sure someone else will tip them, I don't have to. I'm entitled to my hard earned money, why should that server get it. They have brown hair. They should have had blonde hair. I can't enjoy my meal with that brunette walking about." Ok Ok, yes I know I am being a bit ridiculous here, but sometimes I have to wonder what do they really expect from us? If their boss started taking away their pay because of forgetting ketchup when they brought back lunch for the office, they would have a fit. I get better tipping for better service. But some people don't even do that. It's unfair to make people work for you and not pay them. They really only get paid $2.65 an hour. That is not an exaggeration. That is an actual figure. I know I can't be the only server that actually cared about the guest's experience and took it personally when they treated me poorly. I have a very strong work ethic and sense of integrity. I have returned money to customers because I knew they overpaid, like if the bills got stuck together, becausde I knew they weren't tipping $40 on a $25 meal. I couln't do that to another person and I would expect that they wouldn't do that to me in return. Yes we all know you don't HAVE to tip, but how mean not to. I'm sorry it's not rude, it's just plain selfish. If you can't spare $5-$20 on top of your meal, then honestly you shouldn't be going out to eat. Save that $65 + and put it towards things you do NEED, not want. Get carry out or eat at counter service places or better yet cook for yourself. And when your family doesn't appreciate then maybe you might see how it feels when are your efforts go completely unnoticed.

 

[i3utterfli82]

Just curious, but what gives a server the right to refuse service to any guest without permission of the owner/manager?? This could lead to some very tangled legal issues for the owner of the restaurant. If my servers ever refused service without explanation or permission they run the risk of termination! Servers are often not as powerful as they want guests to believe.

In almost all cases the server would go to management and let them know they are not serving the table, therefore another server would have to replace them. This would all be done behind the scenes and the table would probably never know a change of servers had occurred. My husband is a manager for a restaurant in Florida (not Disney) and we have had discussions about this. The server could not be fired by management for refusing service to the table for whatever reason.

 

[HeatherinVT]

I didnt read thru all the posts as im not really interested in reading how much flame you have gotten. YIKES!

I will say this as just something for you to think upon....and im not passing judgement but......
I was a waitress.... Waitresses DO NOT make the same minimum wage as the next person
They are required to claim their tips to bring them up to that minimum wage.

So when someone doesnt tip well or in your case possibly not at all they are taking away from that persons livelyhood.... possibly taking food out of that waitperson and their familys mouth just so you can save a dime to take "your" family out. I know its crazy to pay all the hoopla of disney and then factor in the tips and beleive me i am VERY sad that gratuity is gone but I am choosing to take full advantage of the dining plan and i will take the responsibility of paying the tip

If i couldnt afford it i would stick to counter service and forgo the DELUXE dining.


Anyway.... have a great trip and i hope that u weigh all the factors when you go to dinner and you and your children get treated like royalty

 

[Pooh's-Honey-Pot]

That said, I don't presume to impose my tipping standards on anyone else, or decide how they should spend their vacation budgets. If you can afford to eat at tableservice restaurants after paying for Mouse hotels & Mouse park tickets, then go for it. If you can afford to tip on top of that, then tip. But I don't believe that people should be shut out when their dollars only stretch so far. Some have to squeeze every last bit out of that last nickel to buy the magic of Disney. And just because they're not as affluent doesn't mean they should stay home until they are. For many families, that would mean staying home until the kids grew up & moved away (as my husband often says, most middle class families discover they're "rich" as soon as the last kid moves out!) Bottom line is, we shouldn't shut people out of great vacation experiences just because they can't afford to do everything top of the line.

That's the most sensible post all day!!!

 

[apostolic4life]

In almost all cases the server would go to management and let them know they are not serving the table, therefore another server would have to replace them. This would all be done behind the scenes and the table would probably never know a change of servers had occurred. My husband is a manager for a restaurant in Florida (not Disney) and we have had discussions about this. The server could not be fired by management for refusing service to the table for whatever reason.

Glad I'm not in Florida........when I shell out my money to open a business, I don't want to give control of that business to the server who may refuse to wait on a guest just because of some personal prejudice or bad attitude. Seems restaurant owners in Florida have been laid wide open for lawsuits from angry customers who are discriminated towards by servers (who do not even have to give reason why). I can't fire without legal justification in WV, neither can I refuse service without legal justification. I'm glad it is that way, it protects everyone equally!

 

[i3utterfli82]

Glad I'm not in Florida........when I shell out my money to open a business, I don't want to give control of that business to the server who may refuse to wait on a guest just because of some personal prejudice or bad attitude. Seems restaurant owners in Florida have been laid wide open for lawsuits from angry customers who are discriminated towards by servers (who do not even have to give reason why). I can't fire without legal justification in WV, neither can I refuse service without legal justification. I'm glad it is that way, it protects everyone equally!

I honestly don't think this happens that often. I was a server for many years and never refused service, however I have seen it a few times. Again, the table never knew the situation, and quite frankly I really didn't either, I assume possible bad experiences with the guests on a prior visit...

 

[TiggerDad3]

That's the most sensible post all day!!!

I absolutely agree.

 

[pigletto]

"Bottom line is, we shouldn't shut people out of great vacation experiences just because they can't afford to do everything top of the line. "
Really?
Using a service and then paying for it is considered top of the line?
I wonder how people would feel if their job.. any job at all.. were dependant upon whether the people who use your services felt like it was extravagant to pay you?

 

[stellablue]

I, for one, despise the whole restaurant tipping concept. I hate that restaurants pass the responsibility of paying their staff onto their customers-it's not fair to the server and it's not fair for the customer. Letting a common person decide the salary of another person just turns into a degrading power issue for many.

& I hate that they call it a "tip" because for servers it's not. In the US, a tip for a server is not actually a "tip" by definition-it's a service charge & thus, the server's salary.

My boss decided my salary when I got hired. She is experienced in choosing this salary for me. If I have a bad day one day, my salary still stays the same. I might get a talking to so I understand that I did something wrong, but my salary stays the same. & if I do something above and beyond, I get rewarded-whether that's with praise or a monetary bonus. My boss decides these things and she is a trained professional in this area.

Guests are generally not trained professionals to decide whether a server gets to pay his mortgage or rent this month. & guests often take advantage of this by finding fault with EVERYTHING just so they can justify leaving little to no tip.

We've all seen the clowns who present a pile of one dollar bills in the middle of the table and dramatically remove them one by one, each time they find fault in their server.

I can't even imagine how these customers would react if I walked into their place of business and announced that I was going to see to it that they would not be paid that day because you spent too much time on the Disboards when you should have been doing your work, or you were late getting back to me because you had been tied up at another meeting, or your parking lot was too full and I had to drive around looking for a spot, or your boss charges too much for your services so I'll just take your services and not pay for them....or maybe I won't give you any reason at all, I'll just pay you 25 cents for the day and let you figure out what you did wrong.

Ridiculous right? Because in most other lines of work, if a customer is having an issue with a service provided, they will speak to the manager or speak to that person directly. Not wait until the end of the job to speak up, or not speak up at all. Customers generally do not do this and therefore it should not be up to them to decide what to pay.

I have seen a few people comment that they will contact a manager as soon as a problematic issue arises and I sing these people's praises, but sadly, it's not the norm

I wish they would just change ALL tips to an automatic service charge that is already added to the total bill. Service charge would be whatever the U.S. tipping norm is. If a customer wants to leave more, they can. and if a customer has a problem with the service, they should do what you do in any other type of job situation-contact the manager. & if ya can't afford to leave the tip, than ya can't afford to eat at that restaurant.

Just my 2 cents.

 

[apostolic4life]

I honestly don't think this happens that often. I was a server for many years and never refused service, however I have seen it a few times. Again, the table never knew the situation, and quite frankly I really didn't either, I assume possible bad experiences with the guests on a prior visit...

Yeah, bad history between people usually is the root of those types of situations. I can understand switching tables between servers, but refusing service is a completely different beast.......refusing service service means the guest/customer is asked to leave. I think we were on two different trains of thought.......our meanings of refusing service were completely different.

 

[pigletto]

I, for one, despise the whole restaurant tipping concept. I hate that restaurants pass the responsibility of paying their staff onto their customers-it's not fair to the server and it's not fair for the customer. Letting a common person decide the salary of another person just turns into a degrading power issue for many. In the US, a tip for a server is not actually a "tip" by definition-it's a service charge & thus, the server's salary.

My boss decided my salary when I got hired. She is experienced in choosing this salary for me. If I have a bad day one day, my salary still stays the same. I might get a talking to so I understand that I did something wrong, but my salary stays the same. & if I do something above and beyond, I get rewarded-whether that's with praise or a monetary bonus. My boss decides these things and she is a trained professional in this area.

Guests are generally not trained professionals to decide whether a server gets to pay his mortgage or rent this month. & guests often take advantage of this by finding fault with EVERYTHING just so they can justify leaving little to no tip.

We've all seen the clowns who present a pile of one dollar bills in the middle of the table and dramatically remove them one by one, each time they find fault in their server.

I can't even imagine how these customers would react if I walked into their place of business and announced that I was going to see to it that they would not be paid that day because you spent too much time on the Disboards when you should have been doing your work, or you were late getting back to me because you had been tied up at another meeting, or your parking lot was too full and I had to drive around looking for a spot, or your boss charges too much for your services so I'll just take your services and not pay for them....or maybe I won't give you any reason at all, I'll just pay you 25 cents for the day and let you figure out what you did wrong.

Ridiculous right? Because in most other lines of work, if a customer is having an issue with a service provided, they will speak to the manager or speak to that person directly. Not wait until the end of the job to speak up, or not speak up at all. Customers generally do not do this and therefore it should not be up to them to decide what to pay.

I have seen a few people comment that they will contact a manager as soon as a problematic issue arises and I sing these people's praises, but sadly, it's not the norm

I wish they would just change ALL tips to an automatic service charge that is already added to the total bill. Service charge would be whatever the U.S. tipping norm is. If a customer wants to leave more, they can. and if a customer has a problem with the service, they should do what you do in any other type of job situation-contact the manager. & if ya can't afford to leave the tip, than ya can't afford to eat at that restaurant.

Just my 2 cents.

Bravo.