Graphing Calculator...school supplies are killing me(rant)

[aprilgail2]

Second, I have ran a backpack/ school supply drive the last 2 years and an tell you where to go for any school supply and who has the cheapest prices. This year I can say school supply costs were up. Though I can fill a backpack with supplies for less than $25 it's way too much. The charity we collected for wanted us to even add flash drives and what I call teacher supplies (sanitizer, tissue, etc). I told the charity we supply for the child not the district administrators. For the price of a flash driver a first grader gets all the supplies they need to write, write-on, color, etc.

A flash drive is for administrators?? My daughter carries her work back and forth from school on a flash drive, if she doesn't have one there is no way to get her work from school to home where she needs to complete it. You can get them for 2.00-I don't see a big deal with wanting kids to have a flash drive. I also work for a place that does school supplies for local children and we sponsor hundreds of kids-not only do they get a backpack full of supplies but they also get new sneakers and a new outfit for the first day of school.
We usually run short at the school supply drive on scissors and pencil sharpeners each year. Notebooks are cheap this year - they just had a sale where they were 18 cents each for spiral and marble notebooks but the limit was 30 so I took my daughter and her 3 friends and we each bought 30 of each- so for 43.00 I got 240 notebooks. This year I noticed a lot of people giving the expo dry erase markers- I know they were on my daughters list every year when she was in grade school.

 

[elphaba91]

We have been having a calculator battle for the past couple of weeks in my house. DS will be a senior this year. When he was a freshman we offered to buy him a new calculator as suggested by his school. (Ds attends 1/2 the day at a special high school heavy in science and math). He said he didn't need it as the school had them in class to use and he could use an app when at home. Each year we asked him again and he said no. At this point I figured we would just be waiting until he started college and would buy what was needed then. But no....DS announced a couple of weeks ago he needed a calculator this year. Some of his friends had been using a certain one and were able to finish their work but DS was not able to affecting his grade. Really, never mentioned that when it happened? Just so happens I still had the info from freshman year which suggested the TI-Nspire CX. At Target I found the TI-84 on sale last week for $85ish...a great deal since it was normally $130. They didn't carry the Nspire. I read the back of the package and there was only one slight difference between the 2. I knew the Nspire hadn't been advertised anywhere and it was bound to be even more expensive. Brought home the 84 and DS refused to even consider it. Said he had been using that kind and he needed the other. Of course he never even really looked at it, so who knows if it was the one he was using in school. DH went out on Ebay and found a reconditioned Inspire CX for under $90 and ordered it. I have a message out to one of his math teachers to question the differences and see it he really does need the Inspire or if DS is once again thinking he needs top of the line when the difference it small. Guess at this point it's a moot point since DH ordered the Inspire, but I still want to know. Especially with all the comments here that the 84 got many folks all through college. FYO...the Inspire was on sale for $139 today at Office Max, down from $159.00. Egads!

I know it seems silly, but I think he really will need the correct model. For a lot of things, kids are simply taught 'enter this button, then this button, then this button, then press enter bad there's your answer', without actually knowing the reasoning behind it. Or they will install programs on the calculator, often done by simply plugging their calculator into the teacher's. So, while you're correct that the TI-84 would work just fine (that's what I used at school), but he wouldn't know how to use it correctly and would be working it all out on his own.

I don't have kids but reading this post I have two issues. The first I think it is awful that kids have to beg for pennies for an education. They should be spending their time studying and being kids. This type of activity should only be if they are saving for something fun like a bike, school trip, etc. Second, I have ran a backpack/ school supply drive the last 2 years and an tell you where to go for any school supply and who has the cheapest prices. This year I can say school supply costs were up. Though I can fill a backpack with supplies for less than $25 it's way too much. The charity we collected for wanted us to even add flash drives and what I call teacher supplies (sanitizer, tissue, etc). I told the charity we supply for the child not the district administrators. For the price of a flash driver a first grader gets all the supplies they need to write, write-on, color, etc.

First off, it sounds like you're doing some fantastic work there! However, if your work is going to expand to help older kids then you do need to realise that they will require different supplies to the younger ones and, unfortunately, that can be a lot more expensive. Yes, some of the required supplies are ridiculously unnecessary (e.g. kneadable erasers, mathomats and planispheres - all things on my year 7 booklist!), but others are essential if they're going to be taught skills that can be used in further education and in the real world, like flash drives (which can be bought for under $5, so aren't terribly expensive).

 

[Disneycrazymom]

I agree with everyone saying get the requested calculator. I teach Math and requested the TI cheep model (middle school). They are $9.99. I do exactly what the PP said. Push this button, then this, then this, here's the answer.

Some of our parents thought they were being helpful by buying the model up or the kids wanted a "pretty" one. If I don't know how that one works, I have to spend extra class time trying to figure it out. Time we could have been using to work together. So while they planned it for good - it really made my job harder if everyone didn't have the same calculator.

I also use dry erase markers and boards and even sidewalk chalk. Whatever I can to make math practice "funner".

 

[drinkme]

Ok - I just gotta say it. I was a math major in college, and I never had or used a graphing calculator!!! Not in High School, not in any class in College - including those endless Calculus classes.

I understand times have changed, but I still don't get the need for kids to have calculators like this in high school Algebra and Geometry. The schools should be focused on teaching them on how to do the math themselves so they get the theory behind it - not on teaching them to plug things into a calculator. I understand using these types of calculators in advanced science classes and more advanced math classes that apply the concepts learned in these lower classes, but I just don't get the need for them in Algebra, Geometry and even Trig.

(Oh - and for those of you complaining about the cost of bussing, just know it could be worse. Our district provides NO bussing to middle and high schoolers. None. Zippo. Zilch. They are expected to take the standard city bus service, and of course they've cut back the routes in recent years due to budget cuts so that's easier said than done. My daughter is "lucky" in that she only has to make 1 transfer to get home. And the cost is ridiculous - even the discount student bus pass will end up running me nearly $400 for the year for the lovely privilege of having my daughter ride the city bus with all sorts of unsavory characters )

I have my college degree in Math, too. I graduated in the 80's and a graphing calculator was required. What we learned in college at the undergrad level using our calculators and computer programming is what was learned at the grad level just a few years before.

The kids are taught how to use these calculators in the lower math classes. They don't use them daily, but they soon will at the Junior & Senior grades.

 

[Styx Fan]

I know it seems silly, but I think he really will need the correct model. For a lot of things, kids are simply taught 'enter this button, then this button, then this button, then press enter bad there's your answer', without actually knowing the reasoning behind it. Or they will install programs on the calculator, often done by simply plugging their calculator into the teacher's. So, while you're correct that the TI-84 would work just fine (that's what I used at school), but he wouldn't know how to use it correctly and would be working it all out on his own.



.

Thank you for this explanation! If only my silly kid could articulate it this way. Glad DH ordered it for him.

 

[tvguy]

I have my college degree in Math, too. I graduated in the 80's and a graphing calculator was required. What we learned in college at the undergrad level using our calculators and computer programming is what was learned at the grad level just a few years before.

The kids are taught how to use these calculators in the lower math classes. They don't use them daily, but they soon will at the Junior & Senior grades.

I graduated in the '70s, back when the Texas Instruments SR 75 was just coming out. But they were never ever allowed in the classroom. The kids in the Math club had them. But, it does raise the question, if the calculator is doing all the work, and the kids are not learning the formulas, what are they learning?

 

[crisi]

I graduated in the '70s, back when the Texas Instruments SR 75 was just coming out. But they were never ever allowed in the classroom. The kids in the Math club had them. But, it does raise the question, if the calculator is doing all the work, and the kids are not learning the formulas, what are they learning?

From what I can tell homeschooling Algebra and helping my kids through the homework - theory. A lot of theory. How it works rather than plug and chug. The calculator can do plug and chug and rote memorization isn't that meaningful to a generation that carries the internet in their pocket.

They are also moving through it a lot faster. My son - who is not exceptional, will take the math class I took as a Senior and was the highest math class offered in high school as a Sophomore. My daughter could finish two years of Calc if she chose to pursue Math in high school.

 

[disneylove69]

A flash drive is for administrators?? My daughter carries her work back and forth from school on a flash drive, if she doesn't have one there is no way to get her work from school to home where she needs to complete it. You can get them for 2.00-I don't see a big deal with wanting kids to have a flash drive. I also work for a place that does school supplies for local children and we sponsor hundreds of kids-not only do they get a backpack full of supplies but they also get new sneakers and a new outfit for the first day of school.
We usually run short at the school supply drive on scissors and pencil sharpeners each year. Notebooks are cheap this year - they just had a sale where they were 18 cents each for spiral and marble notebooks but the limit was 30 so I took my daughter and her 3 friends and we each bought 30 of each- so for 43.00 I got 240 notebooks. This year I noticed a lot of people giving the expo dry erase markers- I know they were on my daughters list every year when she was in grade school.

Last year we ran out of sharpeners as well. I found the trick is early in July Wal-Mart puts out it's supplies. The ones by me have them for a quarter. For some reason they don't put many out but mix with higher priced ones. I asked the sales lady and they had boxes of the quarter ones in the stockroom. Not sure why they don't put them out.

 

[tvguy]

From what I can tell homeschooling Algebra and helping my kids through the homework - theory. A lot of theory. How it works rather than plug and chug. The calculator can do plug and chug and rote memorization isn't that meaningful to a generation that carries the internet in their pocket.

They are also moving through it a lot faster. My son - who is not exceptional, will take the math class I took as a Senior and was the highest math class offered in high school as a Sophomore. My daughter could finish two years of Calc if she chose to pursue Math in high school.

Given that we have the highest rate of incoming college freshman having to take remedial math, I do have to question whether maybe they need to do a whole lot more "plug and chug" and less theory.

 

[crisi]

Given that we have the highest rate of incoming college freshman having to take remedial math, I do have to question whether maybe they need to do a whole lot more "plug and chug" and less theory.

We also have a lot more kids entering college as Sophomores or Juniors due to AP coursework, CIS and PSEO. Almost none of the entering Freshman in an Engineering program need Calc - which wasn't even offered when I was in high school. We have a lot of students who wouldn't have gone to college when I did going, they need remedial work, but back when I went, they wouldn't have gone - they might have gone to trade school, or just taken a factory job. Top colleges have gotten far more competitive than they ever were - but there are far more options for average - or below average students.

 

[aprilgail2]

Last year we ran out of sharpeners as well. I found the trick is early in July Wal-Mart puts out it's supplies. The ones by me have them for a quarter. For some reason they don't put many out but mix with higher priced ones. I asked the sales lady and they had boxes of the quarter ones in the stockroom. Not sure why they don't put them out.

We ran out of pencil sharpeners and out of folders today! We were packing up a bunch of backpacks and ran short of both of those! We are set up in a local mall tomorrow by a target so hopefully will be getting plenty more!
We usually run short on actual backpacks but today alone we got almost 200 dropped off--and that was just from 2 people!

 

[SEA333]

From what I can tell homeschooling Algebra and helping my kids through the homework - theory. A lot of theory. How it works rather than plug and chug. The calculator can do plug and chug and rote memorization isn't that meaningful to a generation that carries the internet in their pocket.

They are also moving through it a lot faster. My son - who is not exceptional, will take the math class I took as a Senior and was the highest math class offered in high school as a Sophomore. My daughter could finish two years of Calc if she chose to pursue Math in high school.

Agreed. I didn't want to get into it here, but I've already given part of the clue from the name of the math class he is in, so whats the harm now?

DS14 is gifted (based on several testing criteria and subsequent scores) in math, particularly abstract concepts and computation, so the "Freshman Algebra" class he is in is a self-paced, open ended independent study program where the kids basically lead in the direction they want to go, and the teacher is there to guide and assist. DS taught himself how to do long division in his head at about age 8-9, and pretty much surpassed my math abilities not long after. So as far as needing to defend the reasons to all the pp's who questions why this child might need a graphing calculator in 9th grade, I will pass. All I know is that he needs one, and based on past history with him in math, I'm sure it won't hinder his ability to think for himself.

 

[tvguy]

We also have a lot more kids entering college as Sophomores or Juniors due to AP coursework, CIS and PSEO. Almost none of the entering Freshman in an Engineering program need Calc - which wasn't even offered when I was in high school. We have a lot of students who wouldn't have gone to college when I did going, they need remedial work, but back when I went, they wouldn't have gone - they might have gone to trade school, or just taken a factory job. Top colleges have gotten far more competitive than they ever were - but there are far more options for average - or below average students.

But a lot of colleges are backing away from accepting AP credit, because they are finding...... despite passing their "college level" classes in high school, this students do are not prepared in the material.
DS when to a private university and DD to a state, neither gives credit for AP classes anymore. DS's college puts it this way"we want our students to take our classes, and the AP classes should make it easier for them"

 

[HeatherC]

TVGUY..As far as colleges not accepting AP credit, I personally think they are making those decisions based more on money. When you have larger number of students entering college with a semester or more of classes under their belt, the colleges are losing A LOT of money from this.

 

[havaneselover]

TVGUY..As far as colleges not accepting AP credit, I personally think they are making those decisions based more on money. When you have larger number of students entering college with a semester or more of classes under their belt, the colleges are losing A LOT of money from this.

Yeah, seems like an unfortunate stance. I graduated in three years from a public ivy because of AP credit. I passed the tests and quite honestly my high school AP classes (very competitive public school in New England) were as rigorous as my college level classes--just smaller.

 

[tajz90]

TVGUY..As far as colleges not accepting AP credit, I personally think they are making those decisions based more on money. When you have larger number of students entering college with a semester or more of classes under their belt, the colleges are losing A LOT of money from this.

I'd say it's based on money too. Save big by graduating early. Will still encourage AP testing just in case the chosen school accepts them.

 

[rszdtrvl]

My son's school supplies so far have been easy. All I have purchased at Walmart is some notebook paper, some folders, and a large file folder to attempt to keep him organized. In the past, we have done a large 3- ring binder for him but it gets really bulky. I don't think he will need a fancy calculator this year, but we have a few around the house that should work, as we try to pick up the fancier ones from yard sales when we see them (my "go to" calculator is a TI-85 - nobody in the family uses it but me so it is never missing from it's spot).

He will be a senior this year.

I have a storage tub that I stick school supplies in when I see them. Seriously, yard sales are a GREAT place to find them! I bought him a like-new $80 REI backpack for $7, found some new pencils, notebook paper, etc. at yard sales.

I know last year I sent a calculator to another Dis'er. I hope they got good use out of it!

 

[tvguy]

TVGUY..As far as colleges not accepting AP credit, I personally think they are making those decisions based more on money. When you have larger number of students entering college with a semester or more of classes under their belt, the colleges are losing A LOT of money from this.

My son's college says not accepting AP credit is actually costing them money. Getting a student through sooner opens up a slot for another student, more students means more income from tuition.

 

[crisi]

But a lot of colleges are backing away from accepting AP credit, because they are finding...... despite passing their "college level" classes in high school, this students do are not prepared in the material.
DS when to a private university and DD to a state, neither gives credit for AP classes anymore. DS's college puts it this way"we want our students to take our classes, and the AP classes should make it easier for them"

Our high school offers credits through the University of Minnesota (CIS - College in the Schools). And PSEO is enrolling in college while still in high school. The college coursework is accredited. I'm not sure many colleges wouldn't take a University of Minnesota calc credit.

 

[leebee]

My husband is on faculty at a local university (chemistry department) as are many of our friends. They all say that lots of the kids who come in with AP credit in math classes really aren't prepared to handle the college level work, mostly because they do not know how to use the equations and apply them in a variety of situations. AP classes prepare you to pass the AP tests (or not), but don't necessarily teach you the course material. Depending on your major, if you have AP calc credit, they'll give you 3 unassigned math credits, but will still expect you to take college calculus- especially if you are a science, engineering, or math major.

It's also interesting to me to see how many kids get As in the AP class but can't get above a 3 on the AP test. 18 of 22 kids in my DD's AP stats class got As in the class but only 4 of them got 4s or 5s on the AP test. Either the class isn't adequately preparing them for the test, or the class grades are very inflated. Something is very wrong with that.