GRAND OPENING - GRAND CLOSING (Florida)

[Heigh-Ho]

Just to add on for those saying you can't get to young people. This is what our Premier wants done here after a bunch of parties happened with over 200 people attending.

He wants enforcement to come down hard on them. The home owner should be fined $100,000 and anyone at the party should be fined $800. I fully expect the next time it happens that will be done.

No one said you couldn't get to the young Not sure where you got that idea. We're just saying it's not suddenly new behavior as if suddenly they are this and that.

FWIW it's common in the States to have curfews with certain places fining the parents should the youth be got out after curfew (similar-ish to what you were discussing). Sure maybe not $100K but financial penalties aren't new either. Hopefully any homeowner actually would be fined $100K and anyone at a party fined $800. If you're going to have that stiff of a penalty you better have the bite to go along with it and it better stick as in they pay it not get off with a lesser penalty.

 

[Heigh-Ho]

Here in Boston the big story is that our best starting pitcher who had COVID back before the season started had to be shut down this week because of inflammation around his heart. He is 27 and an athlete. This stuff is no joke even for the young and healthy. Yes there are many, many mild cases but there is a whole gray area between those mild cases and deaths and that is the area that makes me the most nervous.

https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/29542729/red-sox-eduardo-rodriguez-awaits-heart-test-results

I'll just note that it's already been touched upon in other threads over time. Athletes aren't always super healthy, those who do strenuous exercise aren't always healthy, I remember a poster saying people who run marathons or run miles per day or do large amounts of exercise should actually ease up on that during this pandemic (I believe they mentioned doctors were advising this) because it can be incredibly tough on the body lowering your ability to fight it off. Even someone mentioned somewhere (this thread or a different one) about football players in the NFL and being obese.

Now I'm not saying this baseball player is unhealthy or that whatever activity he does creates strain on his heart just speaking to your bringing up athlete and young and healthy.

 

[KBoopaloo]

I'll just note that it's already been touched upon in other threads over time. Athletes aren't always super healthy, those who do strenuous exercise aren't always healthy, I remember a poster saying people who run marathons or run miles per day or do large amounts of exercise should actually ease up on that during this pandemic (I believe they mentioned doctors were advising this) because it can be incredibly tough on the body lowering your ability to fight it off. Even someone mentioned somewhere (this thread or a different one) about football players in the NFL and being obese.

Now I'm not saying this baseball player is unhealthy or that whatever activity he does creates strain on his heart just speaking to your bringing up athlete and young and healthy.

I think the actual lesson here is that lots of people proclaiming “I am healthy and don’t fear it” may not be as healthy as they think they are. I keep seeing the goalposts beIng moved about what constitutes healthy and who is or isn’t healthy anytime a person you can reasonably assume to be “healthy” comes down with a serious case of this virus. “Not all athletes are that healthy.” Fine, fair enough but I bet a 27 year old professional athlete who can throw a baseball 93 miles an hour considered himself to be pretty healthy. I can tell you he is certainly in better physical shape than I am and I have zero known underlying health conditions and would consider myself fairly healthy. And I’d bet he is in better health/physical condition than a good number of the people on this board posting that they are healthy and not worried about it. And that’s the point. Lots of people are likely overestimating their actual level of “healthy” when they say they are unafraid because this does not have severe consequences for most “healthy” people.

 

[Heigh-Ho]

I think the actual lesson here is that lots of people proclaiming “I am healthy and don’t fear it” may not be as healthy as they think they are. I keep seeing the goalposts beIng moved about what constitutes healthy and who is or isn’t healthy anytime a person you can reasonably assume to be “healthy” comes down with a serious case of this virus. “Not all athletes are that healthy.” Fine, fair enough but I bet a 27 year old professional athlete who can throw a baseball 93 miles an hour considered himself to be pretty healthy. I can tell you he is certainly in better physical shape than I am and I have zero known underlying health conditions and would consider myself fairly healthy. And I’d bet he is in better health/physical condition than a good number of the people on this board posting that they are healthy and not worried about it. And that’s the point. Lots of people are likely overestimating their actual level of “healthy” when they say they are unafraid because this does not have severe consequences for most “healthy” people.

You're the one who brought it up. I'm just commenting on it

I'm not changing the goal posts just reiterating what people have discussed over time. There's a concept of what healthy means to people which is why some people get so shocked when it's athletes who come down with it because we just have this image that athletes must be healthy because they engage in activity. It's like when we have athletes who collapse suddenly many are shocked because it's just not the image we are used to.

Maybe if you're saying "people who think they are healthy" yeah I can go with that but you said "the young and healthy". I bet you a baseball player who throws 93 miles per hour is aware of how his daily workout, and his activity level can do to his health if he over does it (and I'm sure he knows about the strain it does to his joints and muscles though that isn't quite the same relevancy to COVID-19).

Obesity is but one component. So maybe the lesson here is looks are deceiving? You look healthy so we assume you're healthy and in better shape to combat this virus than someone who doesn't look as healthy.

 

[sam_gordon]

From the actual study paper:
"Demographic characteristics, cardiac blood markers, and cardiovascular magnetic resonance (CMR) imaging were obtained. Comparisons were made with age-matched and sex-matched control groups of healthy volunteers (n = 50) and risk factor–matched patients (n = 57)."
"Compared with healthy controls and risk factor–matched controls, patients recently recovered from COVID-19 had lower left ventricular and right ventricular ejection fraction, higher left ventricle volume and mass, and raised native T1 and T2 measures. A total of 78 patients recently recovered from COVID-19 had abnormal CMR findings, including raised myocardial native T1 (n = 73), raised myocardial native T2 (n = 60), myocardial LGE (n = 32), and pericardial enhancement (n = 22)"

Barring actual MRI of patients before being infected, they did try to control for common preexisting conditions between the groups. Quoting the paper, "using Mann-Whitney U tests for continuous data and Fischer exact tests for proportions", this outcome is impossible just by random.

This isn't the first study to show this clinical finding among recovered patients. It's an additional supporting paper among many from around the world on this topic.

So they can't say for sure? Wouldn't that be a good metric to know? Surely there is some reason the 78 patients had "abnormal CMR findings" and 22 didn't.

 

[KBoopaloo]

You're the one who brought it up. I'm just commenting on it

I'm not changing the goal posts just reiterating what people have discussed over time. There's a concept of what healthy means to people which is why some people get so shocked when it's athletes who come down with it because we just have this image that athletes must be healthy because they engage in activity. It's like when we have athletes who collapse suddenly many are shocked because it's just not the image we are used to.

Maybe if you're saying "people who think they are healthy" yeah I can go with that but you said "the young and healthy". I bet you a baseball player who throws 93 miles per hour is aware of how his daily workout, and his activity level can do to his health if he over does it (and I'm sure he knows about the strain it does to his joints and muscles though that isn't quite the same relevancy to COVID-19).

Obesity is but one component. So maybe the lesson here is looks are deceiving? You look healthy so we assume you're healthy and in better shape to combat this virus than someone who doesn't look as healthy.

I am not even really sure what we are arguing about? Let me be clear that from my own personal experiences with this since March I am not shocked by how it effects anyone - young, healthy, old, unhealthy or otherwise. I know young, healthy people who had terrible experiences (40+ days in ICU) and old people who caught a mild case and managed to beat it in a nursing home which would have seemed to be a death sentence (shout out to my 90 year old Aunt Pat!) I think it is deadly serious and unpredictable and I have done everything I can since March to ensure that I don’t get it or spread it because of that. I think the examples of younger, healthy (or should I say “healthy”?) people having more serious symptoms and after effects can be helpful for those who continuously make the argument that it is mostly mild for young, healthy (or “healthy”) people which is why I posted it in the context of the larger conversation that was happening about the unknowns concerning long term effects on those who might survive what might be seen as a more mild case.

 

[SaintsManiac]

Here in Boston the big story is that our best starting pitcher who had COVID back before the season started had to be shut down this week because of inflammation around his heart. He is 27 and an athlete. This stuff is no joke even for the young and healthy. Yes there are many, many mild cases but there is a whole gray area between those mild cases and deaths and that is the area that makes me the most nervous.

https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/29542729/red-sox-eduardo-rodriguez-awaits-heart-test-results

Agree. I’m not willing to risk having lifetime effects.

 

[RamblingMad]

You're the one who brought it up. I'm just commenting on it

I'm not changing the goal posts just reiterating what people have discussed over time. There's a concept of what healthy means to people which is why some people get so shocked when it's athletes who come down with it because we just have this image that athletes must be healthy because they engage in activity. It's like when we have athletes who collapse suddenly many are shocked because it's just not the image we are used to.

Maybe if you're saying "people who think they are healthy" yeah I can go with that but you said "the young and healthy". I bet you a baseball player who throws 93 miles per hour is aware of how his daily workout, and his activity level can do to his health if he over does it (and I'm sure he knows about the strain it does to his joints and muscles though that isn't quite the same relevancy to COVID-19).

Obesity is but one component. So maybe the lesson here is looks are deceiving? You look healthy so we assume you're healthy and in better shape to combat this virus than someone who doesn't look as healthy.

diabetes is the number one at risk category. You can’t look at someone and know they have it.

 

[Heigh-Ho]

diabetes is the number one at risk category. You can’t look at someone and know they have it.

Yes that's my point

 

[penn19]

Florida's testing is such a disaster, honestly. It's no wonder the virus is running rampant.

My parents are in their early 70s. They live in a retirement community near Kissimmee. My dad got tested 14 days ago. He STILL has not received his test results.

Here is his timeline of "illness":

July 8: symptoms began. Fever, chills, lethargy, headache, body aches

July 11: last day of symptoms

July 13: COVID test done

July 14: he had to take my mom to the hospital for an angiogram (mom had been tested a week prior to the procedure, but BEFORE my dad started showing symptoms....got her negative result AT the procedure). My dad stayed in the car.

July 16: my dad went in for a scheduled CT. He had called the center the day he took the Covid test to ask if he should reschedule. They told him "as long as you aren't having symptoms the day of, you are good to come in." (Excuse me, but WHAT???)

July 22: new onset wheeezing

July 27: still no test results

In the meantime, my parents have been out to eat breakfast at a restaurant (the morning of my moms procedure), he had been out shopping at Costco and Publix WITH SYMPTOMS (don't even get me started on that...I yelled at him for being so irresponsible, but he is VERY stubborn), and who knows where else he went without telling me.

This is a major problem that test results are taking so long to come back. Florida is FULL of stubborn elderly people who just WILL NOT stay home if they feel sick. When I expressed outrage at the fact that my parents went out to eat when they both should have been staying home, they said "well, what are we supposed to do, just stay in the house forever?" Ugh.

And WHY are medical offices allowing probable positive people (and those who live in their houses) in for non emergent medical procedures? What the heck?

So, the lesson here is, Florida is the worst.

I have a nephew in Pa that was tested 2 weeks ago. No results yet. So it’s not just Fl.

 

[Heigh-Ho]

I am not even really sure what we are arguing about? Let me be clear that from my own personal experiences with this since March I am not shocked by how it effects anyone - young, healthy, old, unhealthy or otherwise. I know young, healthy people who had terrible experiences (40+ days in ICU) and old people who caught a mild case and managed to beat it in a nursing home which would have seemed to be a death sentence (shout out to my 90 year old Aunt Pat!) I think it is deadly serious and unpredictable and I have done everything I can since March to ensure that I don’t get it or spread it because of that. I think the examples of younger, healthy (or should I say “healthy”?) people having more serious symptoms and after effects can be helpful for those who continuously make the argument that it is mostly mild for young, healthy (or “healthy”) people which is why I posted it in the context of the larger conversation that was happening about the unknowns concerning long term effects on those who might survive what might be seen as a more mild case.

The conversation was centered around who and who isn't considered healthy. You used an athlete as an example for young and healthy and I was saying that a person who is an athlete (no matter how impressive their stats are) does not mean their bodies are always healthy or that they stand to fight off the virus better by virtue of being an athlete. That's why I brought up what I had seen posters mention over time about easing up on strenuous exercise because it can be hard on the body at a time where you don't want that. The other stuff you're talking about wasn't what I was debating

We're good though now I think

 

[anthony2k7]

I'm not being sarcastic, really, but I thought hospitalizations and deaths were the numbers everyone wanted everyone to be focused on all along?

Yes, but they're only useful numbers to look at if you have some faith they are reporting current and accurate numbers. Fl numbers generally seem out of date and unreliable.

 

[hertamaniac]

Yes, but they're only useful numbers to look at if you have some faith they are reporting current and accurate numbers. Fl numbers generally seem out of date and unreliable.

Apparently we just had a hiccup with child positivity rates (31% vs. 14%). Making decisions like how to address school/education on faulty data is not responsible.

https://www.fox35orlando.com/news/f...-leads-to-high-child-covid-19-positivity-rate

 

[ReneeA]

Isn't that what I said? My words are not coming across well today, lol.

If you wear a mask, it's really meant to protect others more than yourself (I think).

If two people wear a mask though, both are protected.

But social distancing is really the key. Masks will be most effective if social distancing guidelines are followed.

At least that's what I heard.

Yes - it's supposed to help protect others from you. I got called a sheep in the grocery store by a middle aged, obese couple for wearing my mask. I wanted to take it off, get real close, and let them know that I work in a hospital with covid patients and based on their appearance, they wouldn't necessarily do well and they should be happy I'm wearing it. But I refrained. Barely. (I was tired, overworked and cranky and wanted to be anywhere but the grocery store with buttholes, forgive me).

 

[DisneyJamieCA]

I just saw this on our local news. 700 people at a party?!

https://abc7news.com/health/nj-airbnb-party-with-more-than-700-people-broken-up/6337193/

 

[dvcgirl67]

I just saw this on our local news. 700 people at a party?!

https://abc7news.com/health/nj-airbnb-party-with-more-than-700-people-broken-up/6337193/

Yup....incredibly stupid. We need very strict fines in place for this kind of nonsense.

 

[DisneyJamieCA]

Yup....incredibly stupid. We need very strict fines in place for this kind of nonsense.

Like almost everybody here, I wish I knew what it was going to take for people to take it seriously. Our county is talking about fining individuals and businesses; I just hope it’s an effort with some follow through.

 

[dvcgirl67]

Like almost everybody here, I wish I knew what it was going to take for people to take it seriously. Our county is talking about fining individuals and businesses; I just hope it’s an effort with some follow through.

The 40 year old homeowner should legit be facing jail. 700 kids/young adults at a huge party. Keep in mind, Jackson Township is in Ocean County, NJ....which has a very large senior citizen population. I should know...DH and I have 4 parents total, and they all live in Ocean County. Those "kids" could be young adults that work at all sorts of facilities and businesses where older people live and frequent. It's literally a crime. Our Governor has been referring to people who behave like this at "knuckleheads". IMO, this is *way* beyond knucklehead....it's beyond a misdemeanor. It's a felony.

 

[DisneyJamieCA]

The 40 year old homeowner should legit be facing jail. 700 kids/young adults at a huge party. Keep in mind, Jackson Township is in Ocean County, NJ....which has a very large senior citizen population. I should know...DH and I have 4 parents total, and they all live in Ocean County. Those "kids" could be young adults that work at all sorts of facilities and businesses where older people live and frequent. It's literally a crime. Our Governor has been referring to people who behave like this at "knuckleheads". IMO, this is *way* beyond knucklehead....it's beyond a misdemeanor. It's a felony.

I totally agree with you!

And I’m so sorry you have the added worry about your (and your DH’s) parents living out there.

 

[SaintsManiac]

This happened in my lovely state:

https://www.wafb.com/2020/07/27/state-agencies-investigating-large-grand-isle-concert/