GRAND OPENING - GRAND CLOSING (Florida)

[Heigh-Ho]

I don't have to fly for business, thankfully, but DH and I do fly 3-4 times a year for vacations. We've traveled around the world. I've seen plenty of morons throwing fits on flights and sometimes it's very scary. Typically those people were very drunk, or mentally ill. Both are very unsettling. But once they're on the plane, at least I know that their belongings have been scanned and their person has had to walk through security and a metal detector at a minimum. I was still willing to fly with that small risk pre-COVID. Now...not so much.

We need to tackle the virus. That's all there is to it. There's yet another letter signed by experts to Congress begging them to shut the country down for a period of time. Why not shut things down, at least to the same degree that many of us have in the country? Nothing indoors except for necessities. No bars. No restaurants. For the love of Pete...no theme parks. Shut it down for one month, and then open up under the same parameters on a national level. Put a curfew in place. Shut down all travel, including flights, trains and cars unless you can prove it's essential. Let's all play by the same rules. One month. We know now that if we all stayed away from one other legitimately, we could *greatly* slow the spread of this thing.

Why not do it now...for the month of August, and then open up slowly and correctly. And maybe we'll get through this. I guarantee you, that if we did that, you will have a heck of a lot of people who will feel better about the country. One more month isn't going to hurt anyone more than going forward as we are will hurt them. I guarantee you that we'll be hurt far more if we continue on like this.

My husband flies all the time for business. He flew 25+ RT flights last year alone. I also flew 6 RT flights last year. But your prior comment was that people who throw fits don't fly..but you yourself just said they do. That's why the PP made their comment too and why we both made comments about the "around 9/11 people also threw fits" because we do remember people doing that and people do now. But you've explained more what you were meaning so no biggie on that part

When I was talking about fits it was in response to TSA procedures that you brought up. People that I see are regularly everyday people like you and me often rushed, annoyed that this triggered an additional screening and oops I forgot a water bottle (but wait they didn't call me out of it--happened to my husband more than once at several different airports last year gosh he has terrible memory you'd think he would remember to throw out all liquids lol, etc. Maybe the drunk or mentally unstable is more on the airplane itself but yeah I was responding to the TSA procedures themselves with people throwing fits. But I also think on the airplane itself people just lose their tempers too, an outburst even one as youtube worthy as it may be or twitter these days can just be someone who just lost it but is neither drunk nor normally mentally unstable.

I do see by your words that when you say "we all felt safe" you mean a completely different thing than I think many people do. You mean just that their items were screened.

On travel I'm not planning on flying anytime soon personally speaking. I also really don't feel as comfortable eating inside either and try my hardest to sit outside. I wouldn't be opposed to bars and nightclubs closing down and indoor dining at least step ladder backwards where indoor is severely limited again in capacity then edged back to outdoor only. I think there should be consideration there for places that have already reopened but that's purely my opinion meaning not a finger snap you're closed because too many places aren't set up for unemployment strain more than they have and the $600 is running out in a few days. It would be very easy for those places that haven't opened indoor dining yet to just simply push off that reopening date for that to be allowed.

 

[sam_gordon]

Regarding mask effectiveness...

I do believe it helps prevent the spread MORE from an infected person wearing it, but it HAS to help the uninfected person wearing it to some degree. If it did absolutely nothing, then there's no harm in touching the outside of your mask.

 

[Heigh-Ho]

Exactly. It's why I believe too much stock is put into mask wearing. Some don't even try to distance. They believe it's safe because they covered up. Throw a mask around your neck and you've done your part.

I do believe in masks I do want to make that clear but I think because the rhetoric became so focused on mask compliance we lost out on the social distancing part and realistically at that time I understood why because we really needed people to come on board to wearing masks. We know we need to do it but it's easier to subconsciously fall back on the "well I am wearing a mask" and it's a concern many people had as the mask mandates trickled out from companies standpoints and locality standpoints. Now I'm just hoping for a bit more concentration on keeping distance as masks have become more common. It's just my opinion that one of the easiest ways is those 6ft markers at the cash registers.

I just found us all being much more aware of our distance between other people when we were most vulnerable (meaning no masks at all). But to your "throw a mask around your neck and you've done your part"yes sadly I do see that where people didn't take to heart the proper way to wear it. Sure you can get some kudos for having a mask on your person but it needs to be worn properly for it to have that effect we're all looking for.

 

[Pyotr]

I don't.

The same way I can't explain how my daughters friend never caught corona virus from her boyfriend who she spent several nights in bed with while he was infectious. How no one in his family caught corona virus despite being inside with him for many days. Yet he apparently infected his room mate.

I don't think there has been any study that has defined exactly why some people are super spreaders and why some are not.

There is no study that has shown masks to be 100% effective in blocking transmission. Hopefully the studies that are being run now will give a number but right now that number appears to be 5x lower then the NPR graphic.

Edited to add:
One of the CDC guidelines for back to school is to have all desks facing the same direction. Could the hair dresser and client primarily facing the same direction during a haircut be the factor?

Here is an interesting study I found regarding why some people get deathly ill from COVID and some people have no symptoms. Perhaps it could be applied to give some people immunity to the virus?

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-020-2550-z

 

[penn19]

Thank you! I am so tired of people judging the whole state of Florida because of a percentage of the population. My sister lives down there, and believe it or not, some do still care.

Yes! I have family there. They are trying to stay safe. They aren’t all nuts there.

 

[montreid]

Exactly. It's why I believe too much stock is put into mask wearing. Some don't even try to distance. They believe it's safe because they covered up. Throw a mask around your neck and you've done your part.

Yes, and Education is also needed. Doesn't mean lack of education should result in not advocating for the use of a mask.

Let's do the helmet analogy again. We don't give up if the wearer doesn't buckle the chin strap or puts in on backwards and say helmet rules aren't good because the wearer doesn't get it on right. We educate. We reinforce. Yes, it needs to cover both chin and nose. Yes, distance between folk remains the primary single best defense we have for this virus. Barriers help decrease contact potential. Some better than others.

Our hospital just instituted eye goggles for any prolonged contact (>15 minutes) less than 6 feet away in addition to a universal masking policy. Barriers help. Distance being chief among the best barrier we have.

 

[TLSnell1981]

Yes, and Education is also needed. Doesn't mean lack of education should result in not advocating for the use of a mask.

Let's do the helmet analogy again. We don't give up if the wearer doesn't buckle the chin strap or puts in on backwards and say helmet rules aren't good because the wearer doesn't get it on right. We educate. We reinforce. Yes, it needs to cover both chin and nose. Yes, distance between folk remains the primary single best defense we have for this virus. Barriers help decrease contact potential. Some better than others.

Our hospital just instituted eye goggles for any prolonged contact (>15 minutes) less than 6 feet away in addition to a universal emasking policy. Barriers help. Distance being chief among the best barrier we have.

I agree with education but too many still skirt the rules. It irritates their face or they can't breath. They also wear ill fitting masks and touch their face especially when eating. I see them pulling it up and down. Besides, there are far too many who need to be schooled with masks than helmets.

I believe in precautions. We wear masks when required and have a sufficient supply of PPE (home and work). I knew they would likely be mandated at some point. Hand washing, minimizing close contact, staying home if you feel unwell and away from sick people...all normal practices. We take temperatures, complete questionnaires, etc. I suspect shields will be utilized on a regular basis after last weeks event. They are already used in certain instances.


I am compliant even if I have doubts regarding effectiveness...which I do. I don't have a scientific study but in my opinion most outside of a clinical setting do not wear masks properly or use other precautions regularly if at all. These are the people I see hanging out in groups in areas with the highest rate of infection. Now this may be a coincident but probably not.

 

[Jrb1979]

I agree with education but too many still skirt the rules. It irritates
their face or they can't breath. They also wear ill fitting masks and touch their face especially when eating. I see them pulling it up and down. Besides, there are far many who needed to be schooled with masks than helmets.

I believe in precautions. We wear masks when required and have a sufficient supply of PPE (home and work). I knew they would likely be mandated at some point. Hand washing, minimizing close contact, staying home if you feel unwell and away from sick people...all normal practices. We take temperatures, complete questionnaires, etc. I suspect shields will be utilized on a regular basis after last weeks event. They are already used in certain instances.


I am compliant even if I have doubts regarding effectiveness...which I do. I don't have a scientific study but in my opinion most outside of a clinical setting do not wear masks properly or use other precautions regularly if at all. These are the people I see hanging out in groups in areas with the highest rate of infection. Now this may be a coincident but probably not.

There is a reason the people under 40 are the ones who getting infected the most now. Too many don't care. I blame a lot of that on the many who downplay Covid-19 and keep telling the young people if they do get sick it will only be mild. What needs to be done is better enforcement of rules. Just yesterday there was party with 200 people at it, cops were called and they made everyone leave.

 

[TLSnell1981]

There is a reason the people under 40 are the ones who getting infected the most now. Too many don't care. I blame a lot of that on the many who downplay Covid-19 and keep telling the young people if they do get sick it will only be mild. What needs to be done is better enforcement of rules. Just yesterday there was party with 200 people at it, cops were called and they made everyone leave.

The young feel invincible and believe they are immortal. They engage in riskier behaviors. It’s not a new thing.

 

[roomthreeseventeen]

Eight more players and two coaches with the Miami Marlins have tested positive for COVID-19, as an outbreak has spread throughout their clubhouse and brought the total of cases in recent days to at least 14.

 

[Heigh-Ho]

There is a reason the people under 40 are the ones who getting infected the most now. Too many don't care. I blame a lot of that on the many who downplay Covid-19 and keep telling the young people if they do get sick it will only be mild. What needs to be done is better enforcement of rules. Just yesterday there was party with 200 people at it, cops were called and they made everyone leave.

I agree with a PP. I do think there are people who downplay it but I also think there are a good amount of younger people who take it seriously (because really not all younger people are this or that).

However, I do think that sometimes people ignore that young people aren't exhibiting behaviors that are any different than normal for their age group. I would say just from observing the younger seem to be more on board with mask wearing as in they don't object to it as much as some older people (there's less "it's my freedom" or "it's uncomfortable so I don't wear it" but that can be negated when they go to parties and don't wear a mask or go out to the bars which they may be more likely to do and don't wear a mask. And they suffer from the same issues as everyone else seems to no matter what age group which is proper mask wearing.

And in this case even when discussing hospitalizations and health consequences they do have science backing them up. The overwhelming majority of younger people don't die and don't tend to suffer ill consequences (that doesn't mean there aren't those that do just that majority don't seem to). There may have been a different reaction curbing such riskier behaviors (parties and bars) if youths were so disproportionately affected.

I guess to me it's far more nuanced than "they just don't care". I think normal behaviors mixing with a virus that doesn't seem to impact them as much (severely that is). That's not to excuse such behavior but I get the feeling some people think young people suddenly are like this when they really aren't; that's just a practical viewpoint.

 

[anthony2k7]

The young feel invincible and believe they are immortal. They engage in riskier behaviors. It’s not a new thing.

They believe they are all entitled to do whatever they want as well.

 

[sam_gordon]

I'd have to see the post you're talking about. I'm confused now too.

I looked for the post, but I can't find it. I read it here, heard it from my mom when I talked to her, AND they said it on the Today show this morning (although they said Florida overtook NY as the #2 with CA as #1). I went back to Worldometers and the "standings" haven't changed. Are people looking at different numbers somewhere?

 

[Southernmiss]

I think the saying the young people don't care about corona is just another way to pick on the young people.

In my circles, the young people have taken the virus a lot more serious than the senior members we know. The senior members we know have made it quite political. Young people have taken it in stride.

 

[DisneyJamieCA]

I looked for the post, but I can't find it. I read it here, heard it from my mom when I talked to her, AND they said it on the Today show this morning (although they said Florida overtook NY as the #2 with CA as #1). I went back to Worldometers and the "standings" haven't changed. Are people looking at different numbers somewhere?

I don’t know about yesterday, but according to CNN Florida has passed NY in number of cases. Looks like they’re getting their numbers from Johns Hopkins.


https://www.cnn.com/world/live-news...27-20-intl/h_24b4a5f69dcbdcac04e13a8cd23a8dc9

 

[montreid]

There's larger numbers of youth and they tend to congregate in more open, obvious areas that are able to be captured by public media -- hence a larger target. Factor in the inability of them as a group to direct the news narrative as they largely ignore cable news channels and live on separate media altogether.

My DD went hiking with her group of 6 friends, distancing and with masks when needed along the trail. After their morning hike, sitting down enjoying some local cuisine, a very vocal group of an older, at risk, generation was lamenting the need for masks two tables over to the point of being redirected by the manager to either mask up or vacate the premises since completed their meal.

Before the summer surge when we were staged reopening, we were still seeing at baseline 2-3% positive rate despite very good public compliance and bar/beach scene opened. Aside from nursing home clusters, those were mostly in the 40-60s having illicit home gatherings -- because they can.

So many parties contributing to the spike -- and we all need to band together to control this virus if we are to move forward beyond this level of community spread and further reopening of our country.

 

[kymom99]

I agree with a PP. I do think there are people who downplay it but I also think there are a good amount of younger people who take it seriously (because really not all younger people are this or that).

However, I do think that sometimes people ignore that young people aren't exhibiting behaviors that are any different than normal for their age group. I would say just from observing the younger seem to be more on board with mask wearing as in they don't object to it as much as some older people (there's less "it's my freedom" or "it's uncomfortable so I don't wear it" but that can be negated when they go to parties and don't wear a mask or go out to the bars which they may be more likely to do and don't wear a mask. And they suffer from the same issues as everyone else seems to no matter what age group which is proper mask wearing.

And in this case even when discussing hospitalizations and health consequences they do have science backing them up. The overwhelming majority of younger people don't die and don't tend to suffer ill consequences (that doesn't mean there aren't those that do just that majority don't seem to). There may have been a different reaction curbing such riskier behaviors (parties and bars) if youths were so disproportionately affected.

I guess to me it's far more nuanced than "they just don't care". I think normal behaviors mixing with a virus that doesn't seem to impact them as much (severely that is). That's not to excuse such behavior but I get the feeling some people think young people suddenly are like this when they really aren't; that's just a practical viewpoint.

They also make up a lot of our workforce. They have been out in this from the beginning.

 

[kymom99]

They believe they are all entitled to do whatever they want as well.

That’s painting with an awfully broad brush. My son and his friends are nothing like that.

 

[dvcgirl67]

So many parties contributing to the spike -- and we all need to band together to control this virus if we are to move forward beyond this level of community spread and further reopening of our country.

Parties, and really any gatherings where people are close together. Saw that there was an outbreak among students who had taken the ACT. And read that the Marlin's MLB team has to cancel games because they have an outbreak. 12 players and 2 coaches have now tested positive. Good luck getting through the season....they're less than a week in.

 

[TLSnell1981]

That’s painting with an awfully broad brush. My son and his friends are nothing like that.

Possibly but they may be the exception not the norm? I literally see a hundred or more middle/high school and college age kids in parks..no mask and all over each other. This is a regular occurrence. They have nothing else to do. They shouldn't go to school but they hang with their friends?