GRAND OPENING - GRAND CLOSING (Florida)

[NYCgrrl]

^^^^
This. True for swabs and blood samples properly stored.

 

[mamaofsix]

With all due respect have you looked at the map of the U.S. to see just how many borders there are between states? It's not the size of your province that is important. You frame a portion comments discussing the U.S. and Canada border but what people are talking about are between each state. There are 50 states and 48 that share a borders with multiple states with I believe maybe Maine being the only 1 that shares with just 1 state (don't quote me on that could be wrong about just Maine). The sheer amount of people that cross state lines every day as a matter of necessity probably would shock you but it's a lot.

lol - not sure if you looked at a map of Canada before responding? Most of our Provinces share a border with at least 3 other provinces/territories, as well as multiple U.S. States. While I referenced the U.S. border in my post, most of my discussion was talking about Provincial borders - I'm sure you know that Provinces are the same as your U.S. states? Or maybe you didn't know that, I'm not sure.

I'm well aware of how many peoples cross state borders as a matter of necessity every day. It is the same here in Canada. Restricting people to their own province had a devastating economic effect. Families have been separated and not been able to see each other, jobs have been lost, people with vacation homes and cottages in other provinces were not allowed to get to them. Even WITHIN provinces many people were not allow to leave their city residence to go to their country cottage in a different country for a number of months.

It was the high cost we paid, but it has paid off with the numbers.

When the Gov't makes an announcement that Provincial lines are closed, sure you'll get a few people who disobey and then get fined / sent packing. However, most people and businesses listen. Perhaps this is a difference between our two countries, though. Might not be as high a level of compliance in the U.S.

 

[butterscotchcollins]

lol - not sure if you looked at a map of Canada before responding? Most of our Provinces share a border with at least 3 other provinces/territories, as well as multiple U.S. States. While I referenced the U.S. border in my post, most of my discussion was talking about Provincial borders - I'm sure you know that Provinces are the same as your U.S. states? Or maybe you didn't know that, I'm not sure.

I'm well aware of how many peoples cross state borders as a matter of necessity every day. It is the same here in Canada. Restricting people to their own province had a devastating economic effect. Families have been separated and not been able to see each other, jobs have been lost, people with vacation homes and cottages in other provinces were not allowed to get to them. Even WITHIN provinces many people were not allow to leave their city residence to go to their country cottage in a different country for a number of months.

It was the high cost we paid, but it has paid off with the numbers.

When the Gov't makes an announcement that Provincial lines are closed, sure you'll get a few people who disobey and then get fined / sent packing. However, most people and businesses listen. Perhaps this is a difference between our two countries, though. Might not be as high a level of compliance in the U.S.

Definitely wouldn't get that type of compliance in the US. That, and restricting travel between states is arguably unconstitutional. Also, there are 10 Canadian provinces to our 48 continental states - try telling someone in Rhode Island or Delaware that they can't leave their tiny state. There are 5 major US cities within a 5 hour drive of each other - we're not very spread out in the Northeast. Your point is well made, it's just not comparable. It's a good idea, it's just not enforceable.

 

[mamaofsix]

I'm picturing all of the little state & county roads that go between two states. Here's a 7 mile stretch of the TN/MS border...
View attachment 512084

They're not going to be able to roadblock all off the roads between states. I feel pretty confident in border areas it's not unusual to see the opposite states plates.

And if they haven't been laid off or work from home? Too bad, so sad, can't cross the border?


I didn't say it was "impossible".

So, I'm just curious why you say they aren't going to be able to roadblock all of the roads between states? Why not? From my understanding, there are a lot of people out of work in the U.S., so the man power to do it certainly wouldn't be a hindrance.

Even if you don't block the roads, it could still be done through policing license plates. And the simple act of putting out an emergency order telling people they cannot travel between states would reduce the load significantly.

"And if they haven't been laid off or work from home? Too bad, so sad, can't cross the border?" Well, to put it simply, yeah. A lot of people lost their jobs and are now on unemployment due to this very fact. A good amount of people have not seen their extended families since March. If you have a vacation home or cottage in another province - yeah, it really was "too bad, so sad" for a very long time. Still is for those who wish to travel to PEI, Newfoundland, Nova Scotia or New Brunswick. They are still locked down to the rest of our provinces.

I'm not really looking to argue, I was just more so defending the position of a pp who suggested that it would be effective to stop the spread if interstate travel were limited. By the numbers here in Canada vs. those in the U.S., I agree with the pp whole-heartedly.

 

[mamaofsix]

Definitely wouldn't get that type of compliance in the US. That, and restricting travel between states is arguably unconstitutional. Also, there are 10 Canadian provinces to our 48 continental states - try telling someone in Rhode Island or Delaware that they can't leave their tiny state. There are 5 major US cities within a 5 hour drive of each other - we're not very spread out in the Northeast. Your point is well made, it's just not comparable. It's a good idea, it's just not enforceable.

Yeah, definitely agree that it likely wouldn't work in the U.S. simply because Americans wouldn't comply. From the outside looking in, it's pretty mind-blowing that giving up personal rights in order to protect the greater community is considered unconstitutional in the U.S. That's certainly a major difference between our two countries and our respective Bill of Rights. Just a totally different mind-set. Unfortunately, also leading to a totally different outcome in this case.

In my opinion, it would benefit the U.S. to be open to the ideas and strategies that are working in other nations. Or even open to the ideas and strategies of their fellow citizens. We have many friends and loved ones from the U.S. and it is almost physically painful to watch this play out. I truly hope your numbers go down soon!

 

[fla4fun]

I hope the Canadian unemployment benefits are better than the Florida ones. I would get maybe 20% of my normal pay with just the Florida unemployment. It’s not enough to pay rent, let alone cover food and utilities. I am fortunate that my home is paid for and I would still struggle if I were on Unemployment. Does our unemployment need an overhaul? Yes. But it’s not going to happen soon enough to make a difference to the people out of work for the next year or so, for reasons too political to mention.

I really don’t understand trying to compare one country against another anyway. There are millions of variables that come into play and no two countries are going to be identical. I am happy for anyone whose numbers are decreasing.

 

[mamaofsix]

I hope the Canadian unemployment benefits are better than the Florida ones. I would get maybe 20% of my normal pay with just the Florida unemployment. It’s not enough to pay rent, let alone cover food and utilities. I am fortunate that my home is paid for and I would still struggle if I were on Unemployment. Does our unemployment need an overhaul? Yes. But it’s not going to happen soon enough to make a difference to the people out of work for the next year or so, for reasons too political to mention.

I really don’t understand trying to compare one country against another anyway. There are millions of variables that come into play and no two countries are going to be identical. I am happy for anyone whose numbers are decreasing.

Yeah, sounds like our unemployment benefits are certainly better. In good times, it's at least 50% of regular pay. During this time, our gov't passed emergency orders to top that up until December. This type of thing is a major reason why we put up with such high taxes.

However, didn't your federal gov't also pass a bill for emergency top-up of unemployment?

I would say that the benefit of comparing one country to another is to learn from each other. Canadians do it all the time. Study other countries where things are working well, and try to implement similar systems here. It's probably a difference in attitude and openness. I can see that the U.S. is likely not as open to that sort of thing....

 

[butterscotchcollins]

Yeah, definitely agree that it likely wouldn't work in the U.S. simply because Americans wouldn't comply. From the outside looking in, it's pretty mind-blowing that giving up personal rights in order to protect the greater community is considered unconstitutional in the U.S. That's certainly a major difference between our two countries and our respective Bill of Rights. Just a totally different mind-set. Unfortunately, also leading to a totally different outcome in this case.

In my opinion, it would benefit the U.S. to be open to the ideas and strategies that are working in other nations. Or even open to the ideas and strategies of their fellow citizens. We have many friends and loved ones from the U.S. and it is almost physically painful to watch this play out. I truly hope your numbers go down soon!

I don't disagree. It's pathetic that the wealthiest nation in the world can't take care of its people - it's not a resources issue, it's a willingness issue, and it's really sad and quite frankly scary these days. It's an emotional struggle every day to deal with the macro of a greedy, criminal government and the micro of navigating daily life and personal decisions. Selfishly I'm pretty pissed that the complete lack of mitigation and control is making having our wedding in November nearly impossible and interfering with our plans to get married and have a family the way we wanted to. And that's not even the worst thing that could happen which I pray every day I never have to face. But yeah good luck trying to tell anyone here, from government officials to individuals whining about their "liberties" that there's a better way - they're not listening.

 

[sam_gordon]

So, I'm just curious why you say they aren't going to be able to roadblock all of the roads between states? Why not? From my understanding, there are a lot of people out of work in the U.S., so the man power to do it certainly wouldn't be a hindrance.

But the man power WOULD be a hindrance because whatever agency would be responsible for blocking all the roads do not have enough on staff to accomplish that. Could they hire thousands, if not tens of thousands more? I guess. But that's not going to be anything quick either, much less train them.

Even if you don't block the roads, it could still be done through policing license plates. And the simple act of putting out an emergency order telling people they cannot travel between states would reduce the load significantly.

As has been said previously, policing license plates is also problematic because of the "essential workers" that work in one state and live in another. And read PP's comment that their "normal" (ie: closer) stores might be across the border.

"And if they haven't been laid off or work from home? Too bad, so sad, can't cross the border?" Well, to put it simply, yeah. A lot of people lost their jobs and are now on unemployment due to this very fact. A good amount of people have not seen their extended families since March. If you have a vacation home or cottage in another province - yeah, it really was "too bad, so sad" for a very long time. Still is for those who wish to travel to PEI, Newfoundland, Nova Scotia or New Brunswick. They are still locked down to the rest of our provinces.

You're only focused on people taking vacations. What about the essential employees who live in one state and work in another? Are they allowed to cross the border? Assuming so, that makes the license plate checks difficult.

I'm not really looking to argue, I was just more so defending the position of a pp who suggested that it would be effective to stop the spread if interstate travel were limited. By the numbers here in Canada vs. those in the U.S., I agree with the pp whole-heartedly.

I agree limiting travel would help stop the spread. What I and others are saying though is the practical aspects of doing so are not as clear cut. PP brought up "look at Hawaii", which is what prompted this entire thing. But they're comparing a state that relies on air transportation for anyone to get there. Trying to compare Hawaii to the continental US is apple to kumquats.

 

[Searc]

The sad thing is now all the labs are totally overwhelmed and results can take up two weeks. There is also delays in even being able to get a test in many places. We have to do better. Can’t wait to see what impact the flu season will have on

Intentional drastic reduction in federal funding will have even more disastrous results.

 

[KayMichigan]

Schools should not be opening right now unless you're in an area with little to no spread. You open schools while the virus is still rampaging through your area and you'll just be closing them every time someone in the building tests positive, which will be all the time. There won't be any point to it.

 

[anthony2k7]

But the man power WOULD be a hindrance because whatever agency would be responsible for blocking all the roads do not have enough on staff to accomplish that. Could they hire thousands, if not tens of thousands more? I guess. But that's not going to be anything quick either, much less train them.

Most other countries would use their military for tasks like this. I gather Americans get a little alarmed at the concept of their military being used within their own country though?

 

[Heigh-Ho]

lol - not sure if you looked at a map of Canada before responding? Most of our Provinces share a border with at least 3 other provinces/territories, as well as multiple U.S. States. While I referenced the U.S. border in my post, most of my discussion was talking about Provincial borders - I'm sure you know that Provinces are the same as your U.S. states? Or maybe you didn't know that, I'm not sure.

I'm well aware of how many peoples cross state borders as a matter of necessity every day. It is the same here in Canada. Restricting people to their own province had a devastating economic effect. Families have been separated and not been able to see each other, jobs have been lost, people with vacation homes and cottages in other provinces were not allowed to get to them. Even WITHIN provinces many people were not allow to leave their city residence to go to their country cottage in a different country for a number of months.

It was the high cost we paid, but it has paid off with the numbers.

When the Gov't makes an announcement that Provincial lines are closed, sure you'll get a few people who disobey and then get fined / sent packing. However, most people and businesses listen. Perhaps this is a difference between our two countries, though. Might not be as high a level of compliance in the U.S.

Yes I did look and understand provinces and by your comment I take it you may not have been thinking about it the same way as several of us were.

It doesn't matter about sharing a border between the U.S. because that is regulated between two countries. The states can't supersede a border closing and/or heavy restriction and they don't have to worry about enforcing it; the Federal government does all of that for them. So while it may border the U.S. it's an agreement between two countries and with respects to how it is that is an important reason why it's not entering into the discussion with respects to the U.S. and travel between states.

You have some states here that border 8 other states for example (there may be states that share more borders just took a quick glance). 8 different states, with 8 different governments and laws, with 8 different potential types of unique variances of citizen needs (such as job locations, such as nearest place to purchase goods, such as medical facilities, and so much more).

There were restrictions with respects to stay at home, shelter in place, safer at home orders depending on the state in respects to someone's secondary home, regional restrictions, etc. But again we were discussing interstate travel and the feasibility of doing so. More considering all the valid reasons one would have to live in one state and be crossing into the border of another and the enforcement of doing it for all the states we have. Stopping a car that had a different license plate to ask them "why are you here, what is your purpose, etc" would take away valuable resources to do it on a national level. States can do their own thing if they want to no one is arguing that and in many ways that's one of the good aspects to how our country is set up that states can make a variety of choices that best suits the needs of their own citizens but a national level is a whole another thing and to do it for all of the miles and miles of roads we have.

 

[hsmamato2]

Didn't a lot of states have stay at home orders back in March and April (when NY was going through theirs)? I know we (Kentucky) did. I think Florida did the same. Things in Ky started to open up in early June. We hit our "explosion" over the last week to two. So, as had been asked before... how long do you stay locked down for? Kentucky's numbers were decent, even after they started opening up. And when we went to phase 3, numbers still stayed down. But now they're not. Should states stay locked down until ALL states have low numbers?

Yes. Or barring that, there should be no interstate travel until ALL states have numbers under control. (I realize the 1st isn't feasible,esp. in a state like N Dakota where there are few people or cases) It's interstate travel that is creating this viscious circle,which is why I CANNOT understand why ANYONE here thinks one state is different from another? As long as there is free and easy travel throughout this country,it will continue to spread and grow.
---FWIW---- While we in the tristate area were on lockdown, we saw plenty of footage of open beaches and bars and spring break parties going on in FL. It's just what happened. So,no back in the spring there was a lax response on the part of some states. It was horrifying to watch.
That said.... I don't care what state I'm from..... traveling to any of the others enhances the spread.

 

[fla4fun]

However, didn't your federal gov't also pass a bill for emergency top-up of unemployment?

The extra is set to run out the end of this month, and there have been issues with getting it extended, so nothing has been passed yet. So there are no guarantees it will continue. This is sad, since there are a lot of people just now getting laid off, who will need the extra funds.

 

[Heigh-Ho]

Most other countries would use their military for tasks like this. I gather Americans get a little alarmed at the concept of their military being used within their own country though?

We do use our own military within our own country we just use certain sectors and for specific reasons. The National Guard for instance is almost always involved in large natural catastrophes. Many have been deployed to aid in drive-thru testing and/or distribution of supplies at the present moment. Some were used recently for protest aid. We don't however use our military for large scale enforcement on our own citizens such that you would be specifically talking about.

 

[Heigh-Ho]

The extra is set to run out the end of this month, and there have been issues with getting it extended, so nothing has been passed yet. So there are no guarantees it will continue. This is sad, since there are a lot of people just now getting laid off, who will need the extra funds.

Ending week of July 4th the total amount was 32 million when including those who are self-employed and side gigs. The week ending July 4th was the 17th straight week that more than 1 million people have filed for unemployment.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2020/07/16/july-unemployment-insurance-payments/

 

[Heigh-Ho]

I'm glad you find my comment amusing @Searc

 

[Searc]

I'm glad you find my comment amusing @Searc

Your lack of knowledge of current events is amusing, LJ.

 

[pigletto]

I hope the Canadian unemployment benefits are better than the Florida ones. I would get maybe 20% of my normal pay with just the Florida unemployment. It’s not enough to pay rent, let alone cover food and utilities. I am fortunate that my home is paid for and I would still struggle if I were on Unemployment. Does our unemployment need an overhaul? Yes. But it’s not going to happen soon enough to make a difference to the people out of work for the next year or so, for reasons too political to mention.

I really don’t understand trying to compare one country against another anyway. There are millions of variables that come into play and no two countries are going to be identical. I am happy for anyone whose numbers are decreasing.

Because comparing strategy and outcome is the way to learn and adapt. Of course you have to look to what worked in other places because it’s clearly NOT working for the USA.