GRAND OPENING - GRAND CLOSING (Florida)

[kdonnel]

People seem to forget that any one of us could be an asymptomatic super-spreader. So the temperature checks and the survey questions are pretty useless.

Not useless.

Each layer of protection has some holes in it. When those layers are stacked on top of each other some of the holes in the layers are covered by the layer above or below.

Temperature screens are just one layer. Social distancing, frequent hand washing, not touching your face, properly wearing a mask, etc. Each one by itself only helps a little. Combined they potentially help a lot.

 

[Planogirl]

We’re trying to catch up to FL.

You're both behind Texas. We had 6975 cases. Whatever we all get, it's all too high.

 

[tippity]

Closing down is what you're forced to do when people won't comply with very simple, non invasive health guidelines. You have to get numbers down to a reasonable level, then re-open slowly following the federal guidelines for doing that. At that point, people have to comply with safety recommendations or it doesn't work. None of the states that opened early followed the guidelines and on top of that, people didn't comply with orders to wear masks and social distance. All the time being shut down accomplished nothing and those states that are spiking now can only blame themselves. Apparently a handful, like Florida, have decided to heck with it. If you die, you die, but we're going to open. It doesn't have to be that way, but that's the choice they're making.

I agree with the masks and social distancing, but I think everyone has a false sense of security in thinking the longer they remain closed the safer they are.

The media keeps harping on the "opening too early" phrase, but there is no evidence to support this assertion. I listened to an interview with Dr. Fauci and he said that masks and distance were critical, but he wouldn't agree with the early opening being to blame. Too early to tell.

 

[tippity]

Not useless.

Each layer of protection has some holes in it. When those layers are stacked on top of each other some of the holes in the layers are covered by the layer above or below.

Temperature screens are just one layer. Social distancing, frequent hand washing, not touching your face, properly wearing a mask, etc. Each one by itself only helps a little. Combined they potentially help a lot.

If I am an asymptomatic superspreader, how are temperature checks going to help?

 

[montreid]

Opening without safety measures and compliance in place resulted in this. Not the act of reopening itself. Reopening simply increases the incidence of interactions between infected and uninfected. It's really that simple.

-One ball in a box can't interact with another ball in a box no matter how much you shake it
-Put two balls in a box and shake it; they will interact
-Put five balls in a box - more interactions
-Put ten balls - even more

Opening causes more interactions -- hence the need for measures to lessen the impact of those interactions -- distance and barriers

 

[montreid]

If I am an asymptomatic superspreader, how are temperature checks going to help?

It won't, that's one layer to get the obvious fever and symptom folk

Your asymptomic spreader layer -- mask.

 

[godisney14]

I agree with the masks and social distancing, but I think everyone has a false sense of security in thinking the longer they remain closed the safer they are.

The media keeps harping on the "opening too early" phrase, but there is no evidence to support this assertion. I listened to an interview with Dr. Fauci and he said that masks and distance were critical, but he wouldn't agree with the early opening being to blame. Too early to tell.

Keeping things closed is the most definitive way to reduce spread. Opening things up quicker allows the infection to spreader quicker. Limited openings slow the spread. Social distancing is a weaker but still effective alternative to closing things down. Masks when worn properly are also effective, but not completely foolproof as healthcare workers are still becoming infected with PPE on.

I think some people forget that viruses do not spread on their own. People spread the virus.
As @montreid stated, the fewer interactions between people, the fewer infections there will be.

 

[HeatherC]

I agree with the masks and social distancing, but I think everyone has a false sense of security in thinking the longer they remain closed the safer they are.

The media keeps harping on the "opening too early" phrase, but there is no evidence to support this assertion. I listened to an interview with Dr. Fauci and he said that masks and distance were critical, but he wouldn't agree with the early opening being to blame. Too early to tell.

I personally don’t believe it was the early openings necessarily. It is people being stupid and not wearing masks and social distancing. As a result of that we can say it was probably too early to open. If people followed the guidelines, it would have been another story probably.

 

[DisneyJamieCA]

Indoor dining and bars are not the major driver of growing cases in the SF Bay Area. As far as I’m aware, only San Mateo Co. has limited indoor dining open. The entire rest of Bay Area are outdoor dining only—if even that. Majority of places are still curbside/to-go only as there is no feasible outdoor dining space.

Do you live here? I do, so I know what I'm talking about. In my county both indoor dining and bars are reopened and ARE driving cases up.

ETA: I was also talking about CA as whole and it is a problem in Southern California. Newsom just shut down bars in 19 counties that account for 70% of the population. And limited dining to outdoor only in those same counties.

For anybody interested here are the rollbacks for CA
https://abc7news.com/health/live-newsom-orders-additional-closures-in-most-of-ca/6287924/

 

[bb32]

I think the term "re-opening" created a false sense of security in people feeling we were past the worst of this. Obviously that was not the intended point, but many were so quick to return to life before covid when the darn thing was still spreading.

 

[godisney14]

Do you live here? I do, so I know what I'm talking about. In my county both indoor dining and bars are reopened and ARE driving cases up.

ETA: I was also talking about CA as whole and it is a problem in Southern California. Newsom just shut down bars in 19 counties that account for 70% of the population. And limited dining to outdoor only in those same counties.

For anybody interested here are the rollbacks for CA
https://abc7news.com/health/live-newsom-orders-additional-closures-in-most-of-ca/6287924/

I do. I’m in the East Bay. I don’t know of one restaurant with indoor seating open right now.
Yet we still have increase in cases, especially Alameda Co.

 

[RamblingMad]

I agree with the masks and social distancing, but I think everyone has a false sense of security in thinking the longer they remain closed the safer they are.

The media keeps harping on the "opening too early" phrase, but there is no evidence to support this assertion. I listened to an interview with Dr. Fauci and he said that masks and distance were critical, but he wouldn't agree with the early opening being to blame. Too early to tell.

The problem is that we reopen, folks don’t wear masks and maintain social distancing, cases spike, and we close down again. We could reopen faster if folks followed instructions.

 

[RamblingMad]

I personally don’t believe it was the early openings necessarily. It is people being stupid and not wearing masks and social distancing. As a result of that we can say it was probably too early to open. If people followed the guidelines, it would have been another story probably.

We can’t open places like bars until this is over. Folks are incapable of maintaining social distancing and wearing a mask in those businesses. They’re going to have to wait for a vaccine to reopen.

 

[tippity]

I personally don’t believe it was the early openings necessarily. It is people being stupid and not wearing masks and social distancing. As a result of that we can say it was probably too early to open. If people followed the guidelines, it would have been another story probably.

In AZ, 5 weeks ago there were bars in Old Town Scottsdale that were packed with the 20-40 year olds. No social distancing and no masks. Governor Ducey saw this and did nothing. The bars should have lost their licenses.
Now we are seeing the virus increasing in this demographic. I don't think it can be blamed on opening too early. I think it can be blamed on our Governor, not bothering to penalize businesses and citizens who didn't follow the guidelines.

Our society can't remain closed until there is a vaccine. But there can be enforcement of regulations.

 

[RamblingMad]

In AZ, 5 weeks ago there were bars in Old Town Scottsdale that were packed with the 20-40 year olds. No social distancing and no masks. Governor Ducey saw this and did nothing. The bars should have lost their licenses.
Now we are seeing the virus increasing in this demographic. I don't think it can be blamed on opening too early. I think it can be blamed on our Governor, not bothering to penalize businesses and citizens who didn't follow the guidelines.

Our society can't remain closed until there is a vaccine. But there can be enforcement of regulations.

People need to blame themselves for going to locations like those bars, where it’s not possible to maintain social distancing. It’s better to listen to healthcare professionals than politicians.

I feel like AZ has signed up for the Sweden experiment.

 

[DisneyJamieCA]

We can’t open places like bars until this is over. Folks are incapable of maintaining social distancing and wearing a mask in those businesses. They’re going to have to wait for a vaccine to reopen.

I agree with you. While I'm not one who thinks everything should stay closed, I do think there are smarter choices. Bars is one I just don't understand. By the sheer nature of what happens at a bar, masks won't happen. Add to that the lack of social distancing, especially with alcohol consumption involved and it seems like an obvious recipe for disaster.

I was reading over the weekend that something like 55% of restaurants and bars were not following mask/social distancing guidelines, including employees. This was after the state mandate!

 

[RamblingMad]

I agree with you. While I'm not one who thinks everything should stay closed, I do think there are smarter choices. Bars is one I just don't understand. By the sheer nature of what happens at a bar, masks won't happen. Add to that the lack of social distancing, especially with alcohol consumption involved and it seems like an obvious recipe for disaster.

I was reading over the weekend that something like 55% of restaurants and bars were not following mask/social distancing guidelines, including employees. This was after the state mandate!

People think they’re invulnerable. The problem is that if they get into a car accident, they might not find a bed at hospital that is full of COVID-19 cases.

 

[kymom99]

I think the term "re-opening" created a false sense of security in people feeling we were past the worst of this. Obviously that was not the intended point, but many were so quick to return to life before covid when the darn thing was still spreading.

I kept hearing officials saying, "It wasn't as bad as it could have been." well that's because we closed things up tight. So you are right, people thought hey this wasn't so bad. Problem is, it's not gone. It's still there.

 

[Cannot_Wait_4Disney]

Personally, I think as much as the derision was deserved for doing the wrong things, praise is deserved for doing some of the right things now. Kudos for finally seeing the problem was getting out of hand. And kudos for abandoning the we're opening come Hades or high water attitude upon beginning to understand what Hades could look like. Whatever the political ideology, sometimes moments come up that you have to meet head on. If you don't, you deserve the scorn you get. And if you do, you deserve praise. Yes there are still some hard core Covidiots down there. And I'm the first one to point em out. But all indications are people are starting to change their behavior for the better. Better late than never.

 

[greg9x]

What you describe here is similar to the plan my DH’s plant has. These guys already work rotating shifts so you have three guys who work day shift (12 hours) for four days and another crew who works three nights shifts (12 hours) with each of them having off 1, 3, 4 or 7 days depending on the week so you only have crews interacting briefly with each other when they exchange day for night. They’ll go a couple weeks without ever seeing the other set of crews. That’s their normal everyday. When things closed up they had trailers brought onto the property and the plan was (still is if things get too bad) was to have two shifts stay onsite for two weeks, swap out with the next two shifts and be off for two weeks. This way if someone got sick they could quarantine and still have an able crew on deck.

Good ole Dupont Schedule.. worked it for many years.. nice for money and the week off, but hell on your body..especially the short turn around. Our company finally got rid of it due to the built in overtime being so much. I stopped shift work before it happened, but sure a lot of my health issues are result of working it.