GRAND OPENING - GRAND CLOSING (Florida)

[RamblingMad]

It would be nice if our citizens would understand without that, wouldn't it?

As for as the news coverage goes, here's the way I think of it. As long as its factual, I don't have any problem with it. If it's true, let me see it.

If the paper or the news call it a spike, go look at how they came to that conclusion. Even if it doesn't take the testing or the hospitalizations into account but the 3000 is true, I don't have any problem with that news. It is still a fact. What I do with that fact is up to me. What I see happening on the DISboards quite a bit is arguing the facts or trying to change the facts. Just because the reporter didn't take into account the testing (which I saw more of early in this disaster and little of these days), still doesn't make the 3000 less important or less of a fact. The fact is that no matter how they find the 3000, those people were still out there, infecting other people.

I'm not hung up on the lag either. It would be great if we had a instantaneous test, but we don't. I see the 3000 new people in a day as an issue that needs to be dealt with. Perhaps we should have fewer things open. Perhaps masks should be mandatory. Perhaps the medical professionals will look at their data and decide what this means and take whatever steps are necessary to get the number under control.

Even when testing increases the number of positive cases, that's not cause to celebrate. If the number of people testing positive is in a area where the cases are spreading quickly, then we aren't acting sufficiently to slow it down. The virus has most of the control. We are not prepared unless we keep things slow and measured, practicing the safety measures we have identified.

Herd immunity is a good thing, but it is a slow process. You can't just open the country, let anyone and everyone get sick and count the deaths as the cost of doing business. It is a phased process and it's what the US is trying to do now.

We have decided to sacrifice our at risk population to our deity: the almighty dollar. And we have language to keep the opening going. If the number of cases go up, we say that’s because we’re testing more. If more people die, we say they had other health conditions, so don’t worry about it. If people talk about wearing masks, we say the science isn’t 100% positive that they’re effective, so do whatever you want. It’s glorious PR to keep the dollars rolling in.

 

[SaintsManiac]

Yeah - my depression and anxiety are in full effect right now, which normally go away in the summer months (seasonal affective disorder).

But honestly, I know that I'd rather deal with my own issues than possibly transmit the disease to someone else. I think Americans as a society have issues with being uncomfortable. So there are a lot of people who were forced into mental spaces and sociological spaces that they've never been in before. And instead of learning to adapt to it and move forward, they just said "f**k it" and have complete disregard to the rules.

I know that people who have claustrophobia and anxiety also aren't going into the stores without a mask because of that. They're probably well aware that because they can't wear a mask then they can't go places. People that are saying they can't wear masks because of anxiety, and then go places, I don't trust. I believe they're just using it as an excuse to bend the rules so they don't have to be uncomfortable. Thinking about to how people used to abuse the disability pass in WDW. They lie to get things easier.

I had so much mask anxiety in the beginning, so I stayed home. After spending more money than I wanted to and lots of trial and error I found masks I can live in for the 45 minutes it takes to go grocery shopping.

 

[e_yerger]

I had so much mask anxiety in the beginning, so I stayed home. After spending more money than I wanted and lots of trial and error I found masks I can live in for the 45 minutes it takes to go grocery shopping.

Same here! I ended up having to sew my own elastic on etsy masks I ordered so that way they had a custom fit and I could wear them for an extended period of times.

 

[Searc]

I think there are other reasons for peoples' reluctance to wear masks: claustrophobia, and anxiety are 2 possibilities.

I agree that critical thinking goes a long way, but I think being compassionate and trying to understand what's behind behaviors is even better.

I understand the need for masks and distancing. But ever since this thing started, I have felt increasingly isolated from other people. I don't interact as much,because the masks make it harder to breathe. In the grand scheme of things this may sound trivial, but I think this may have a profound affect on societies worldwide.

Claustrophobia and anxiety are two very small possibilities. Generally speaking, Americans don't want to be told what to do (even if the outcome is possible serious illness or death) and they can't stand being uncomfortable or inconvenienced for any amount of time.

 

[RamblingMad]

I had so much mask anxiety in the beginning, so I stayed home. After spending more money than I wanted to and lots of trial and error I found masks I can live in for the 45 minutes it takes to go grocery shopping.

That’s what it takes. A lot of masks suck. But if you find ones you can live with, then stick to those.

 

[montreid]

Masking sucks - yep. But they sure do help reduce transmission.

It's a matter of public safety when the health system simply get overwhelmed. What's the measure of that point of overwhelm?

The easiest one that few will argue --- you need a ventilator -- and we have none to give you. Rationing of literally life/death choice occurs. We were dangerously close to that in New York with several hospitals down to 2 days ventilators on hand. We extubated on compassionate grounds more aggressively than we wanted simply because we needed that ventilator for the next patient.

Point is: The hard part of this disease is that the time between infection to need of ventilator is typically 2-3 weeks with a peak about 6 weeks after even. And several cycles of exposure/infection/spread occur during that time. It's like shutting off the engine of the powerboat to avoid hitting an upcoming dock without a tiller to steer.

Please if you don't believe in masking, at least stay 6' away from others at all times. If you cannot do this or follow local ordinance or individual company/store rules -- please don't be 'that person'......shop on Amazon We do!

 

[JaxDad]

I'm planning a relatively small luncheon event here in Jacksonville next month. We received guidance that Florida now requires masks where social distancing is not possible AND limits social gatherings to no more than 50 people. Reference is "UPDATED MEASURES TO ENSURE PROTECTION OF PUBLIC HEALTH IN RESPONSE TO COVID-19," dated 22 June 2020.

 

[okeydokey]

The Florida Surgeon General quietly released a statement saying mask use was recommended but not required.

https://www.miamiherald.com/news/health-care/article243713847.html

 

[DisneyJamieCA]

We have consensus on this quote.

I do think you're being a fair bit disingenuous to characterize anyone here thinking the virus will never get any better. The posts I read are illustrating the fact that we are opening possibly too quickly, because there are spikes and the virus is spreading rapidly in places. There is our rub because you believe that to be an overstatement.

The virus isn't spreading rapidly in all places, but if you don't do anything but watch TV news and they tell you there is a spike in Florida, then that is what you are going to run with. If you watch TV news, you're going to hear it's not big deal. Sadly, here we are with 2 opinions. I don't ever watch the news and I would advise people to start looking at the science. Sadly, most come to the DISboards and then we go down the rabbit hole, usually spreading the stuff they see on the TV news.

I believe that places are having spikes and the virus is spreading rapidly. You don't, ok. That's your opinion, but the scientific information I see, tells me that they support my opinion and I will gladly post links. It tells me that things aren't going like I like them to in places. It tells me I may want to change my behavior in some way, whether it's stay home or to take extra special precautions when I go out. Maybe I will postpone that night out at the bar or restaurant. To not take those things into consideration, just prolongs the effects of this virus.

Just to give you an example of our disconnect. You characterized my wording back in your post #462 as an overstatement. Then you made a statement that what I was saying wasn't right. Well....

I linked you to the Rt data. This is the very definition of Rt. BTW, the number of states has risen to 31 from 24, just since I made my 1st post!

These are up-to-date values for Rt, a key measure of how fast the virus is growing. It’s the average number of people who become infected by an infectious person. If Rt is above 1.0, the virus will spread quickly. When Rt is below 1.0, the virus will stop spreading.

Florida is somewhere between a 1.10-1.57. That's much worse than Massachusetts which is somewhere between .53-.77.

How someone reacts to that information is on them. That chart just presents the science. It tells me I'd rather spend my vacation in MA than FL. Am I over-reacting? That's up to me to decide.

I don't want you to get the impression I'm piling on you just because we are in this conversation. I'm just trying to illustrate to you my thought process in this and why I feel it's important to understand how this virus business works.

The Rt is just one tool though. All of these other numbers mean something too, like hospitalizations, contact tracing and positive test rate. If they are elevated, then I'm going to believe things don't look so good. I'm not over-reacting, I'm being realistic.

I would love for things to get back to normal as soon as they can. I haven't hugged my only granddaughter since March. There are people who think I'm being overly cautious and there are people who don't. It's ok either way, but if we don't all come together on understanding the virus and the way it works, it's going to be a long, long time before I can hug her.

I hope you stay safe and that our exposure to this virus and it's effects are over sooner than later.

Believe it or not, I really think we’re saying the same thing. I agree with the R0 factor being important. And I completely agree with you saying you’d choose a vacation to MA over FL. I am not saying FL isn’t in trouble. There are plenty of states that are. But that is exactly my point - when all 24 (or 31) get lumped together in articles, it becomes convoluted. So take my state for example - it’s always included in those articles about spikes. But it’s R0 factor is 1.04 and has been for the last two weeks (and 1.03 for the two weeks prior to that). (And CA would look much better when backing out LA County.) That is much different than FL who’s currently at 1.37. So when we lump them all together, the real data gets lost. We need to pay attention to spikes and I agree there are states having them. Just not all of the ones with rising cases.

Now it sounds like you go to actual dashboards and websites to look at actual numbers. I do too. But there plenty of who only read headlines or generalized articles. I already said it was unfair to quote just you - although I appreciate the dialogue-because you aren’t one of the “news hounds” I’m referring to. And fwiw, I don’t watch TV news at all anymore. So I will agree that between you and me, the words are semantics. But I do think in the bigger picture, the words matter.

And we do have a poster here who is convinced the border is never going to reopen and he’ll never be able to travel to the US again and things will never get better. Maybe just a bad day, which we’re all allowed, but I have had the conversation with somebody, which is where that comment came from.

As I said before, and I agree with you, each person will have their own comfort level with how they approach “re-entry” and it’s not my place to judge at what pace they do that at.

I hope you stay safe as well and that you get to hug your granddaughter soon! Grandparents are really special and that lost connection has definitely been the hardest for my kids.

 

[DisneyJamieCA]

I'm planning a relatively small luncheon event here in Jacksonville next month. We received guidance that Florida now requires masks where social distancing is not possible AND limits social gatherings to no more than 50 people. Reference is "UPDATED MEASURES TO ENSURE PROTECTION OF PUBLIC HEALTH IN RESPONSE TO COVID-19," dated 22 June 2020.

50 people?! What was it before?

I know we have a 100 for protests and church but I still think we’re below 10 for anything else.

 

[SmallWorld71]

That is strange because non residents can get tested in Florida , but it might cost more or not be free which may be the issue.

Just a follow up that my step-son went back and got tested. Again, DH didn't ask too many questions. He did say that DS sounded exhausted. My guess is that he went back with proof of residency; perhaps to avoid a fee? No word on his roommate yet.

 

[godisney14]

The Florida Surgeon General quietly released a statement saying mask use was recommended but not required.

https://www.miamiherald.com/news/health-care/article243713847.html

the governor at a news conference at the Capitol told reporters that he supports wearing masks but not requiring them.

‘We’ve just got to trust people that you’ll give them an opportunity to do the good things to make good decisions,”he said. “I think that that tends to work better than to mandate this, mandate that.’

Right...that’s definitely working out.

 

[Planogirl]

Governor Abbott of Texas finally talked about this today. He said cases, hospitalizations and infection rates have all increased too much and Texans had better do better. He added no new restrictions and didn't slow down anything but said people should wear masks and socially distance and stay home as much as possible. Texans aren't wearing masks or really doing anything they should and I bet that that won't change.

This press briefing was completely pointless.

 

[DisneyJamieCA]

Governor Abbott of Texas finally talked about this today. He said cases, hospitalizations and infection rates have all increased too much and Texans had better do better. He added no new restrictions and didn't slow down anything but said people should wear masks and socially distance and stay home as much as possible. Texans aren't wearing masks or really doing anything they should and I bet that that won't change.

This press briefing was completely pointless.

Not that I expect you to answer, but if he knows they need to do it, why doesn’t he mandate it statewide? That makes zero sense!

 

[RamblingMad]

Governor Abbott of Texas finally talked about this today. He said cases, hospitalizations and infection rates have all increased too much and Texans had better do better. He added no new restrictions and didn't slow down anything but said people should wear masks and socially distance and stay home as much as possible. Texans aren't wearing masks or really doing anything they should and I bet that that won't change.

This press briefing was completely pointless.

It’s all about the economy at this point.

 

[Planogirl]

Not that I expect you to answer, but if he knows they need to do it, why doesn’t he mandate it statewide? That makes me zero sense!

Our governor is hesitant to ever require anything. I won't comment beyond that to avoid getting too political.

 

[Planogirl]

Not that I expect you to answer, but if he knows they need to do it, why doesn’t he mandate it statewide? That makes me zero sense!

Our governor is hesitant to ever require anything. I won't comment beyond that to avoid getting too political.

 

[gwynne]

Not that I expect you to answer, but if he knows they need to do it, why doesn’t he mandate it statewide? That makes me zero sense!

He doesn't want upset and anger his base.

 

[Planogirl]

Easy peasy, he doesn't want upset and anger the governor.

That was the governor.

 

[TLSnell1981]

And those asymptomatic cases can still keep spreading it unknowingly. Those types of cases are more concerning than the actual sick ones in that regard.

Maybe, depends on the day of the week. Seems the experts can't agree..