Got an interesting survey today from Disney

[tarheelalum]

We let our signature passes expire around Christmas time last year. We just didn't see the value anymore when we considered the cost/crowds. Today I got a survey that seemed to be the most specific one I've ever received. Normally they seem fairly generic but this one asked me why I did not renew my annual pass without ever even asking if I even had a pass.

Many of the questions were concerning the how I felt about the cost of the annual pass and if I considered it to be a good value. They seemed very focused on the cost of the pass and my feelings about the cost. I suspect crowds would have been way down before spring break if it were not for the 3 day SoCal special. From the line of questions I received people may finally be pushing back against the price hikes and Disney seems concerned about it. If they truly are, it's about freaking time.

 

[azfalcon]

Trust me the with high crowds they aren't concerned that you canceled your passes and sure won't reduce entrance cost. It's a normal survey, nothing special

 

[tarheelalum]

Trust me the with high crowds they aren't concerned that you canceled your passes and sure won't reduce entrance cost. It's a normal survey, nothing special

If they could care less, why bother asking me?

 

[alvernon90]

The bottom line is that Disney is selling a product that is both restrained by capacity and highly perishable -- there are only so many people who can visit the parks and only so many days in the year. Given that the demand is higher than the supply, there are only two ways Disney can take advantage: expand the supply and/or raise the price for the limited supply they have. Disney has been aggressive about both, especially since they launched DCA, but the demand remains high because Disney has not succumbed to the temptation to reduce the quality of the product -- they could make that park much crappier than it is and people would pay the exact same prices (and some say they do exactly that).

Unlike WDW, Disney's space at DLR is highly constrained, and the burden on the public infrastructure is unfair to just about everyone. Disney is doing what they can to expand the parks and improve access (especially with the new pedestrian bridge to the new parking structure, and changing the security gates to surround DTD). But the only way they can reduce the crushing crowds is to raise the price of the tickets way, way higher.

My guess is that they could double the price of every single ticket and lose far less than half of their customers, which means a net benefit to Disney. The only reason they don't do it is that they want to keep the reputation of being a company for middle Americans, not some exclusive resort for the extremely wealthy. So they have made the decision and announced it to the world by allowing the crowds in the parks to get uncomfortable, degrading the experience for every single one of their customers.

Speaking only for myself, I wish they went the other way and charged the same absurd prices to get into the parks that they charge for the DLR hotels. I say that because I have the privilege of knowing that I could still afford to go once a year or so and that I would be much happier every time I did if Disney used high prices to thin out the crowds. But I utterly respect their decision to keep the parks accessible to a much broader group of Disney fans.

Still, there are only two options here, especially when Star Wars Land opens up -- they can raise prices or they can make their customers suffer in the overwhelming and constant crowds. To the extent the survey indicates concern about losing annual passholders (when they ought to be happy about it) then it seems Disney will keep on a path that will make Star Wars Land a terrible experience. If the parks are going to retain what little resemblance they have to "parks" as opposed to industrial whimsy factories they are going to have to cut down on the APs. If they do not, the experience of going to DLR is only going to get worse and worse.

 

[tarheelalum]

Raising prices will not have a significant affect on crowds unless the increase is very large. All raising prices does is make disney more money. If Disney was serious about reducing crowd size, they would eliminate the monthly payment plan for California residents. That would cause a large drop in numbers and Disney knows that and that is why they won't do it. Disney wants as many annual pass holders as possible because they are a consistent stream of revenue. Especially ones who spend thousands of dollars per year in the park.

 

[alvernon90]

Raising prices will not have a significant affect on crowds unless the increase is very large.

Yep. That's what I'm saying. Ending the payment plan will help, but probably not enough to keep them from having to close the gates every day during the first year Star Wars Land is open. They need to double the price of every ticket, including the APs. They will make more money from the increased ticket revenue than they will lose in customer spending. Eventually that would not be true, the parks would be empty if they charged $10,000 per day. But I believe they could double prices without losing money. Prices have doubled over the last 15 years and yet the parks have gotten increasingly crowded since then.

 

[mummabear]

Double post

 

[DDhunter]

I gave up my AP in 2013 (that was when the Premium pass hit the magic "too high" number for me). I got a survey very similar to the OP's back then. There was a lot of talk at that time that people would be giving up their AP in droves. Didn't happen then and it won't happen now. Clearly they are still far away from the price ceiling for the majority of people to walk away from their AP.

Also, I've never heard "Disney" complaining about crowd sizes. I've also not seen them implement any programs that would lead me to believe that reducing crowds was their goal. They have constant perks for AP holders, for example, the recent Food and Wine Festival "sip and savor," special AP events, buttons, etc. What exactly are people seeing that leads them to believe the powers that be at Disneyland have any desire whatsoever to reduce AP holders?

We'll see if the massive crowds materialize when SWL opens, then maybe they will try to reduce AP numbers, but I really doubt it even then.

 

[dshimel]

Probably want to know how much more they can push prices up before they hit the breaking point. Can we jump the Sig to $1000? Or only $950?

 

[dshimel]

TL;DR: Instead of $300 per year, now spending $850 every 3rd year. Then instead of going 10 days a year, going 30 days every 3rd year.

For me, I starting buying AP back in 2003 when premium was $225. Few years later, when PAP broke $400, I dropped to DAP at $250. We generally stayed in walking distance for under $100 a night, so didn't need the free parking, and we didn't go on those high crowd days DAP was blocked.

By 2010, the DAP was closing in on $350, and after 7 years of APs, we decided to drop to every other year. 2012-2013 had APs. Then my son got into the Disney College Program at WDW, so 2014-2015 we did WDW, Universal Orlando, Busch Tampa, Sea World Orlando...

This year we're back to DLR. 3-day pass, $300. DAP $600. Sig $850. For us, the biggest difference is the cost of local hotels. Walking distance hotels seem to be $200 a night by the time parking fees, resort fess and taxes are added.

Plus the Sig gets the digital download of photos. And my wife started a new job with limited vacation time, so we're going to have to go on weekends (DAP blocked half he Saturdays).

So, we went with Sig so we get free parking, free photos and the other half of the Saturdays, then stay 4 miles away for $70-80 a night hotel. BUT I will NOT being buying AP every year. More like every 3rd year.

 

[tarheelalum]

Probably want to know how much more they can push prices up before they hit the breaking point. Can we jump the Sig to $1000? Or only $950?

All they have to do is drop the monthly payment plan. At least 30% of pass holders would not renew. Probably even more. A huge number of people rely on the monthly payment plan. Especially when they are buying multiple passes for families. A family of four is well over 3000 dollars for signature passses. To some people that's not much money. But to many others who live here in southern California and pay through the nose in taxes that keep going up, it's significant money that people will not pay upfront for nor put it on a credit card and pay interest.

 

[GatorChris]

I'll agree with the price of hotels going up around DL. For all the talk about hotels being around $100, I've never seen anything close to that between HoJo and Desert Palms - it's all in the $150+ range.

As for tickets, they're already too expensive. We paid over $3K for our passes, and I honestly feel I got burnt this time around. Crowds are much higher and we get no RR, TS Island, Riverboats, or F!. I suppose I could deal with closures if the amount of people stayed the same as it was a few years ago. But we get less attractions, more people, and higher costs. I don't see tickets coming down EVER, and they'll probably keep going up. Sure, they could stop the payment plan. But I don't think they want to. Too much money they'd lose. They don't give a rip about me wanting less people in the parks and they shouldn't give a rip. They need to maximize profits and that's what they're doing. But I do think many of us have reached the breaking point. Come November, my AP will lapse. Will I ever renew again? Who knows.

 

[dshimel]

All they have to do is drop the monthly payment plan. At least 30% of pass holders would not renew. Probably even more. A huge number of people rely on the monthly payment plan. Especially when they are buying multiple passes for families. A family of four is well over 3000 dollars for signature passses. To some people that's not much money. But to many others who live here in southern California and pay through the nose in taxes that keep going up, it's significant money that people will not pay upfront for nor put it on a credit card and pay interest.

How does that increase DisCo's profits?

 

[dshimel]

As for tickets, they're already too expensive. We paid over $3K for our passes, and I honestly feel I got burnt this time around. Crowds are much higher

Nobody goes there anymore. It's too crowded. - Yogi Berra

 

[GatorChris]

Nobody goes there anymore. It's too crowded. - Yogi Berra

I said that exact thing when I got home from the last trip.

 

[tarheelalum]

How does that increase DisCo's profits?

Eliminating the monthly payment plan doesn't increase their profits. It would decrease them so that is why it won't happen. I mentioned it because some others were expressing dissatisfaction due to overcrowding. Decreasing crowds would make for a much better experience for customers. But Disney has shown time and time again, customer satisfaction is not their priority. As long as people are paying up, Disney could care less about customer satisfaction as long as they keep packing the crowds in everyday of the week.

The only exception I could could see to Disney suspending their monthly payment plans is during the year they open Star Wars land. The crowds then will likely be so big they will be able to discontinue the pay plan for a year or two but once the novelty runs out they will have to bring it back.

 

[dshimel]

Eliminating the monthly payment plan doesn't increase their profits. It would decrease them so that is why it won't happen. I mentioned it because some others were expressing dissatisfaction due to overcrowding. Decreasing crowds would make for a much better experience for customers. But Disney has shown time and time again, customer satisfaction is not their priority. As long as people are paying up, Disney could care less about customer satisfaction as long as they keep packing the crowds in everyday of the week.

The only exception I could could see to Disney suspending their monthly payment plans is during the year they open Star Wars land. The crowds then will likely be so big they will be able to discontinue the pay plan for a year or two but once the novelty runs out they will have to bring it back.

Decreasing the crowds will NOT increase the enjoyment of the people NOT there!!!!

More people want to go, more often, than "fit". Someone is going to be unhappy. You just don't want it to be you. Well, the people on the monthly payment plan don't want it to be them. The people buying APs don't want it to be them. The people that hate crowds don't want it to be them. The locals don't want it to be them. The people traveling from the other side of the world don't want it to be them....

The only things I am sure of is that SOMEONE is going to be unhappy, AND no one wants it to be them.

 

[StageTek]

If they could care less, why bother asking me?

It's marketing not caring. I, too, wish surveys meant they cared and
were willing to drop the prices. Perhaps over 5 to 10 years if more
people didn't renew than purchased new AP's they would change their
marketing. But as of now more people are buying than not renewing.

They gather the numbers from a survey and use them for statistical
purposes to see if the numbers change much each year.

 

[ClaraOswald]

The people who make the big decisions seem to not have a clue what conditions are truly like in the park. So I don't see them cutting down on crowds at all. It will be horrible once Star Wars Land opens. I just wonder how many years it will take for it to not suck. We are going in June this year. No clue when we'll be back after that. Kind of sad to think about.

 

[dshimel]

The people who make the big decisions seem to not have a clue what conditions are truly like in the park. So I don't see them cutting down on crowds at all. It will be horrible once Star Wars Land opens. I just wonder how many years it will take for it to not suck. We are going in June this year. No clue when we'll be back after that. Kind of sad to think about.

What if the way to cut down on crowds is to make YOU stop going.

About 7 years ago (maybe 10?) Kevin Yee wrote a piece, "We have seen the enemy, and he is us" about how it is the annual pass holders are CRUSHING Disneyland with crowds. At that time there were like 700K APs generating something like 7 million of DLR's 15 million annual visits. Now it is believed to be over 1 million APs generating more than 10 million of DLR's 18 million annual visits.

But whether you are an AP or not, the crowds are us. Want it to be less crowded? Stop going.