Goodbye, Maxpass. Hello, Disney Genie.

[Skyegirl1999]

The reaction has had a lot of negative, but that doesn’t mean the actual impact to the park experience will be negative. I do see how it could all work out for the better in the long term, so I’m curious to see what happens once APs, Genie, Genie+, LL all get into place. Although it’ll probably be awhile until we can get a good read on it.

This is what I keep thinking about. "In a year, what will the perception of all of this be?" It's possible some of these changes will be highly regarded!

I also continually think about the fact that a year AGO, we were still 8+ months from Disneyland even being OPEN, and we're less then four months into the reopening. It's kind of wild to contemplate and adds a bit of perspective to the proceedings.

The same goes for the new upgrades for premium rides. Always try to keep the parks filled to an uncomfortable capacity to maximize sales. Slow day? Make sure you run rides at reduced capacity to keep those LighteningLame sales at maximum!

Having said that ^^ about how maybe some of these will be positive changes, this gives me pause... because you're totally right. They're incentivized to make the upcharge "worth it" by making sure you're always seeing the value for what you paid/would pay to buy it.

Yesterday we went through the RSR single rider line and we were behind about four people and thought we'd be on in minutes. Then, the ride had a "temporary break down" (they ended up evacuating two cars and then just loading from the front station, so half the cars/volume... wasn't exactly sure what the reason for that would be...). ANYWAY, we went from "we'll be on in minutes" to "we finally were riding 25 minutes later." It made me wonder again how they're going to handle disgruntled people who paid for a ride. If we'd paid something like $60 and then stood around for 25 minutes, that'd be pretty annoying. Also, presumably they'd have to completely clear the Lightning Lane full of people before they took ANY standby in that situation... it's going to add some new operational hiccups for sure.

 

[TikiTikiFan]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1428425393242005508

This is great news if true! He's always spot on with his reporting so I'm sure it is. Such a relief, that's the one thing I've been wondering the most.

 

[Drewski77]

Understood. I guess we will have to wait and see if it comes back in the future.

True, but for everyone staying at an on-site resort right now, it is a clear downgrade without it.

 

[poptart90]

Yesterday we went through the RSR single rider line and we were behind about four people and thought we'd be on in minutes. Then, the ride had a "temporary break down" (they ended up evacuating two cars and then just loading from the front station, so half the cars/volume... wasn't exactly sure what the reason for that would be...). ANYWAY, we went from "we'll be on in minutes" to "we finally were riding 25 minutes later." It made me wonder again how they're going to handle disgruntled people who paid for a ride. If we'd paid something like $60 and then stood around for 25 minutes, that'd be pretty annoying. Also, presumably they'd have to completely clear the Lightning Lane full of people before they took ANY standby in that situation... it's going to add some new operational hiccups for sure.

Exactly this. I remember paying $800+ a night for a GCH "Woods/Courtyard" view room, just to race down to the Incredicoaster for EMH...to have TWO CARS running and the standby line out the queue for the ENTIRE EMH! Totally worth that room price, right?!

I can totally see this happening for the LL rides. And in that respect, I wish they had just made ROTR and Webslingers the LL because they have virtual boarding groups at least, no standby. They should not include RSR and Space in LL (we assume). IMO, they should still be on Genie +, like MaxPass.

 

[PirateBrigade]

Between this thread, the new AP thread, and the fact that the last two Disney movies out were about a dead Marvel character & Cruella DeVille, I’m about 120% sure Disney has run out of original ideas and is just charging more for things.

 

[AquaDame]

Between this thread, the new AP thread, and the fact that the last two Disney movies out were about a dead Marvel character & Cruella DeVille, I’m about 120% sure Disney has run out of original ideas and is just charging more for things.

Dwayne Johnson would like a word...

 

[Malcon10t]

Dwayne Johnson would like a word...

Luca and Raya got missed too!

 

[PirateBrigade]

Dwayne Johnson would like a word...

Luca and Raya got missed too!

oh I’m in trouble

 

[dieumeye]

If we'd paid something like $60 and then stood around for 25 minutes, that'd be pretty annoying. Also, presumably they'd have to completely clear the Lightning Lane full of people before they took ANY standby in that situation... it's going to add some new operational hiccups for sure.

This is a great point. I hadn’t realized this at all. This changes my whole view of the Genie+ and LL queues.

Has the “formula” for mixing standby and FP been tweaked or are they planning to use the same formulas for LLs?

I would hope it has been changed, because now use of the LL queue is exclusively paid. Whereas FP was always free before.

Yes, MaxPass had a cost, but that cost was to book on the app and for the shorter booking window (plus the photo benefit). Technically, MaxPass was not about paying to use the FP queue itself, because the queue itself was free.

I keep thinking of Genie+ as just MaxPass without the top attractions. But it’s not that simple at all. Everyone in the LL queue specifically paid to be there - whether via G+ or specifically if it’s one of the not included “top attractions”.

That’s actually a HUGE difference that I had not realized. Or at least it hadn’t clicked that way in my brain.

Earlier in the thread, someone commented that they thought people in the standby line would be mad when they see people in the LL queue who didn’t wait. But I think it’s going to be exactly the opposite! The people who will be upset are the people in the LL queue!

Are they seriously going to have people pay $100 or whatever for their family to get in the LL queue, walk to the merge point, and then make them stand there as they let a bunch of people through from the standby lane?

All the CMs are going to hear all day is: “I just paid $$$ to get on the ride. Why are you holding me here and letting these other people go through?”

Honestly, it would seem that the new policy should be anyone in the LL queue is let through right away and the standby line is put on hold. Especially since some attractions still can have quite a wait AFTER the merge point.

In fact, I wonder if they’re going to do something to either move the merge points, or simply not let as many people past the merge point at once.

Space Mountain!? If they fill up the interior station, you’re still looking at quite a long wait from the merge point down the hallway and down around the interior to the loading area. It seems like they tried to not let the interior get too packed, but it certainly did happen. I know I was always disappointed when I used a Space Mountain FP and realized the line was basically backed up to the merge point. If I had PAID for that? I think anyone would be rightfully upset. (I wonder if they’ll make the Single Rider entrance the LL entrance for Space Mtn).

Big Thunder Mtn isn’t as bad, but there is definitely a wait after the merge point. Indy? Soarin’? It’s not unusual to have a wait in the FP line and a wait after the merge point. That’s fine for a free service, but does seem inappropriate for a paid service.

I’ve done Express Lane at Universal and Flash Pass at Magic Mountain and the rides are walk on. I’ve done Fast Lane at Knott’s and there are a lot of walk ons but it does have a tendency to back up on some rides at some times (but that’s a whole other discussion). And one important distinction with all these other parks is that their express lanes are almost all completely separate lines from the regular line - many of them are just going in the exit - so there is never a merge point. You only wait behind the people who also bought the express access.

Yes, G+ is cheaper than all those, but if you add whatever the price is for the excluded attractions, the difference is probably not as great as it may seem. Either way, these other programs are what this paid access is going to be compared to.

It’s going to be weird to pay to get in the LL queue knowing that there is a not insubstantial wait past the merge point. And this doesn’t take into account any additional wait that could be incurred by the volume of people in the LL queue prior to the merge point.

Has Disney thought of this? They have to have thought of this, right? If they are asking for people to pay to use these lines, they have to make them better than when they were free, right? Or are they really just going to ask people to pay for “shorter lines, but still a wait because it merges with the regular line farther back than you might expect after having paid exclusively for the faster lane”.

I feel bad for the CMs.

 

[brightlined]

Earlier in the thread, someone commented that they thought people in the standby line would be mad when they see people in the LL queue who didn’t wait. But I think it’s going to be exactly the opposite! The people who will be upset are the people in the LL queue!

Are they seriously going to have people pay $100 or whatever for their family to get in the LL queue, walk to the merge point, and then make them stand there as they let a bunch of people through from the standby lane?

All the CMs are going to hear all day is: “I just paid $$$ to get on the ride. Why are you holding me here and letting these other people go through?”

Honestly, it would seem that the new policy should be anyone in the LL queue is let through right away and the standby line is put on hold. Especially since some attractions still can have quite a wait AFTER the merge point.

In fact, I wonder if they’re going to do something to either move the merge points, or simply not let as many people past the merge point at once.

I think you're overthinking this a little. Yes, the LL people will be held back, but they'll be totally fine with it.

This happens every day at Universal and Cedar Fair parks. The paid people don't freak out because they know they're waiting less than everyone in the standby line. Usually, the operators make sure that the paid lines get priority at any moment, but there are times that the paid people have to wait for a few non-paids to come through. It's just part of the process.

At Cedar Point, Fast Lane Plus costs $90+ per person, and it sells out most days. I was at Cedar Point earlier this summer, and there was one weird anomalous moment that the Fast Lane Plus line for Top Thrill Dragster (one of their marquee rides, when it's not raining metal debris onto guests) was fifteen minutes longer than the Standby line. People with FLP weren't upset - some folks just jumped out of the FLP line and moved over to the Standby line once they noticed.

Even if it's a new thing at DL - any person who pays for LL for RSR, for example, is going to know that they're bypassing a two-hour line. Letting a few standby people move ahead of them won't make enough of a difference for them to mind.

 

[poptart90]

It’s going to be weird to pay to get in the LL queue knowing that there is a not insubstantial wait past the merge point. And this doesn’t take into account any additional wait that could be incurred by the volume of people in the LL queue prior to the merge point.

Has Disney thought of this? They have to have thought of this, right? If they are asking for people to pay to use these lines, they have to make them better than when they were free, right? Or are they really just going to ask people to pay for “shorter lines, but still a wait because it merges with the regular line farther back than you might expect after having paid exclusively for the faster lane”.

SO many good points made in your whole post! Honestly, I didn't put all the pieces together either. I have also used the Express Lane for Universal, and as you stated, the lines are Completely Separate. So yes, you Know you are only waiting behind people who forked out the same amount as you did for the skip-the-line privilege. I'm not sure how I would feel either paying $10-20 per person (let's say) to ONLY queue up in the old FP line for Space or RSR and then still wait through the line merge ???

Hmmm. This could get interesting.

 

[dieumeye]

I think you're overthinking this a little. Yes, the LL people will be held back, but they'll be totally fine with it.

This happens every day at Universal and Cedar Fair parks. The paid people don't freak out because they know they're waiting less than everyone in the standby line. Usually, the operators make sure that the paid lines get priority at any moment, but there are times that the paid people have to wait for a few non-paids to come through. It's just part of the process.

At Cedar Point, Fast Lane Plus costs $90+ per person, and it sells out most days. I was at Cedar Point earlier this summer, and there was one weird anomalous moment that the Fast Lane Plus line for Top Thrill Dragster (one of their marquee rides, when it's not raining metal debris onto guests) was fifteen minutes longer than the Standby line. People with FLP weren't upset - some folks just jumped out of the FLP line and moved over to the Standby line once they noticed.

Even if it's a new thing at DL - any person who pays for LL for RSR, for example, is going to know that they're bypassing a two-hour line. Letting a few standby people move ahead of them won't make enough of a difference for them to mind.

It’s more about the wait past the merge point. The other “pay for access” lines at the other parks don’t have that. The biggest benefit Disney’s old express access program had was that it was free. But now that it’s exclusively paid, it could actually end up the worst of all the paid access programs because there are still some significant waits built into some of those lines.

Again, Space Mountain. If the line is backed up to the old FP merge point, no one should be happy paying for that, no matter how long the standby queue is.

If you want people to pay for express access, then charge them an appropriate amount and give them express access. It’s about the perception. People will feel like they’re paying for quick access to the rides, not paying for just a technically shorter line.

 

[Chickinvic]

Disney has said so. According to their own graphics, you can only have ONE Genie+ reservation at a time and cannot get another until you redeem that one at the ride.

The only thing I saw that someone had posted on here was cut off and there was obviously meant to be further wording. If you only see part of the wording for fastpasses or maxpass I'm sure it could also give that impression.

 

[Chickinvic]

True, but for everyone staying at an on-site resort right now, it is a clear downgrade without it.

And yet they keep emptying their wallets with glee, eager to do so.

 

[DizMe]

And yet they keep emptying their wallets with glee, eager to do so.

As one of those wallet emptiers, I just have to say that the main reason I stay on site has nothing to do with early entry. It's a nice perk, sure, but the reason I like on site is much more complicated than that. I'm going to be watching closely when I go in Dec to see how "downgraded" being on site might be. Will there be carolers and bell ringers in the lobby? Piano player? Santa and the big tree? Will the staffing be sufficient? Food options good? and so on. I empty my wallet for a well rounded experience, which I don't get across the street, but if that's gone and the park operations are a significant minus, I probably won't be back either on site or off for some time.

 

[PirateBrigade]

And yet they keep emptying their wallets with glee, eager to do so.

I empty my wallet (well…VGC, so I more than emptied my wallet 5+ years ago, hah), but I stay on site to avoid crossing Harbor. The only way I wouldn’t stay on-site is if the GCH took a magic carpet ride to the corner of Karelia and Harbor.

 

[gelatoni fan]

It’s more about the wait past the merge point. The other “pay for access” lines at the other parks don’t have that. The biggest benefit Disney’s old express access program had was that it was free. But now that it’s exclusively paid, it could actually end up the worst of all the paid access programs because there are still some significant waits built into some of those lines.

Again, Space Mountain. If the line is backed up to the old FP merge point, no one should be happy paying for that, no matter how long the standby queue is.

If you want people to pay for express access, then charge them an appropriate amount and give them express access. It’s about the perception. People will feel like they’re paying for quick access to the rides, not paying for just a technically shorter line.

Priority admission for Ant Man and the Wasp in Hong Kong merges before the room where they explain the ride so you could still have like a 4 minute wait (less now that social distancing spreads out the line). But if you take a VIP tour, you can go through the CM entrance directly to be the first person in line. To get a priority admission pass right now, you have to either buy them from City Hall or book a hotel package that includes them.

I completely agree that merge points are a major issue with how Disneyland is currently set up. If CMs fill the areas in front of the current fastpass merge points on rides like Indiana Jones, then it really devalues Genie+. But there should also be ways to do this better without too much modification of the queue. For example, the existing Single Rider lines merge at the front so there is no reason they couldn't turn that into the new Genie+ line instead of use the existing Fastpass line for rides such as Incredicoaster.

But Disney is an expert at providing an inferior product at inflated prices so we shall see. Take away the "Disney" factor and the Paradise Pier Hotel is not objectively better than a lot of the nearby cheaper non-Disney hotels.

 

[FeistyDisneyMom]

One thing that Disney has going for it past those merge points though is the queue theming. For instance, for Indy, there are so many incredible things to experience and explore while in queue that I'd actually feel a bit let down if I didn't get to experience them. Same for some other queues. Not all queues are alike/not all ride attractions have themed queues, so I'm not saying there isn't value in skipping the queue entirely for quite a few attractions, but for some rides Disney has really put in effort to make waiting interesting (GotG and RR are two that immediately popped in my head besides Indy).

I am very glad that my trip is for June 2022 instead of this fall! I can't wait to start hearing reports of actual usage, especially if we can get @Skyegirl1999 to give us a write up like we had for MaxPass

 

[brightlined]

It’s more about the wait past the merge point. The other “pay for access” lines at the other parks don’t have that. The biggest benefit Disney’s old express access program had was that it was free. But now that it’s exclusively paid, it could actually end up the worst of all the paid access programs because there are still some significant waits built into some of those lines.

I'll gently disagree on that. For example, at Cedar Point, Steel Vengeance has at least another ten or fifteen minute wait after the merge point. A lot of old-ish rides at those parks have the same issue - trying to retrofit second queues into buildings that weren't designed for them. There, the main lure of the paid pass is that you know you're only waiting 45 minutes instead of three hours - the benefit is the shorter wait time, not immediate boarding.

(Honestly, if it did end up being an issue, the Space Mountain fix would be to have LL take over the single-rider entrance.)

 

[EmJ]

One thing that Disney has going for it past those merge points though is the queue theming. For instance, for Indy, there are so many incredible things to experience and explore while in queue that I'd actually feel a bit let down if I didn't get to experience them. Same for some other queues. Not all queues are alike/not all ride attractions have themed queues, so I'm not saying there isn't value in skipping the queue entirely for quite a few attractions, but for some rides Disney has really put in effort to make waiting interesting (GotG and RR are two that immediately popped in my head besides Indy).

I am very glad that my trip is for June 2022 instead of this fall! I can't wait to start hearing reports of actual usage, especially if we can get @Skyegirl1999 to give us a write up like we had for MaxPass

We will be there June 2022 also!!