"Going Columbine" - please stop using this phrase

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No, it doesn't.:thumbsup2 That is why I mentioned the number of views versus the posts. It has far more than any other thread on the page. People appear to be interested in the topic.

Like Twitter followers, you have to take internet numbers with a grain of salt.

To quote Jules Winnfield...

"The path of the righteous man is beset..."

OK, OK, maybe not that Jules quote (But it is on Nick Fury's head stone)

"We're gonna be like three little Fonzies here. And what's Fonzie like?"

Fonzie is like Elsa! :thumbsup2
 
Poor choice of words if for no other reason because now the poor woman has to deal with some of the people on this thread. It was a slip of the tongue. I HIGHLY doubt it was meant as something offensive and I think people need to just take a step back. This person is a human being. No reason to be rude about it.
 
So, are we allowed to say "Going Postal" or if someone is bent out of shape ask is they are getting "Wounded Knee" on somebody. I always hear "Disney prices are a "gyp"' or "They are trying to 'gyp' us." FWIW, I am part Romanichal (racist slur name Gypsie) and I don't get mad. It's a saying that most don't use in making light of me. Words only hurt you if you give them weight.
my 2 cents.

I had no idea the word 'gyp' came from gypsy. In looking that up, I found a slew of other words and phrases that be traced back to racial slurs. Fascinating stuff, unless it's your feelings that are getting hurt I guess. Most are so removed from their origins that no one even has a clue where they came from now.

It was an insensitive and extremely inappropriate comment. I don't think she should have said it, but don't know how her mind works and will reserve judgment until I hear her thoughts, if there are any forthcoming, as well as the Podcast crew's opportunity to address this. :goodvibes

Dizzytime, I don't think you reserved judgement at all. It may not have been your intent, but your comment is quite full of judgement. You have a right to judge (as does anyone), but then stating that you haven't made a judgement is just incongruent and was enough to get me to finally get into the discussion here.

Going all "Spanish Inquisition" ...too soon?
I have LOVED every single example. I think you're gonna' have to take it on back to Cain and Abel.

how many times on the disboards have you heard the phrase "drinking the kool aid"? (in reference to disney apologists.)

I'm sorry, I don't even understand this comment as it relates to the podcast. Are you saying that there are friends and family of the people who died in Guyana with Jim Jones may be listening and be hurt? I think we'd have heard from them by now. It's been 36 years, so maybe they're not as offended at this point. The phrase is used a lot, it probably did hurt in the beginning. :stir:

can I get offended now?
SI is one of my pet peeves. Those unlucky to get thrown into SI prisons were much better treated than those thrown into prison in nearly anywhere else in Europe [and were tortured less]. Propaganda. Was era of Reformation and Wars of Religion, pitting Catholic against Protestant. And SI kept meticulous records, which was exceedingly rare.
Off my soap box now. Occupational hazard. :goodvibes

Of course you may get offended! Isn't that the theme here? Amazing knowledge of the inquisition, though. ::yes::

I'm torn in this between wanting to be sensitive and caring and wanting to say 'get a grip'. I sure hope the phrase 'get a grip' isn't based on some racial slur or cultural/civic/ethnic event. This whole discussion HAS served to make me extremely paranoid. I'm a generally funny person, one of those "You ought to see if you can make it as a comedian" type of people. Some of my funny has the potential to hurt people, usually when it involves stereotypes (think 'people of [insert big box store here]'.

I did once make a hurtful statement in a staff meeting without ever intending to, and even after I said it, had no idea that anyone was upset about it. My boss had to call me into her office to point it out. We were up to our eyeballs in work, deadlines were squashing us like bugs, and something had to be done. I suggested we bring in contract labor to do xyz task since "well trained monkeys" could do that and it was the only thing that we could use somebody 'off the street' for to help get us out of the hole we were in. All true, and wasn't that monkey comment cute and funny? Jenni always has to be funny. No, it wasn't funny at all to the two people who normally do the well trained monkey task. Yes, it was very easy, and yes, a contract person could do it, but these two people had done it for YEARS and took great pride in their ability to do it flawlessly. I might as well have called them worthless to their face and meant it, which I never intended to do. I didn't think through was I was saying. These two women did much more than just this one task; this was just a minor part of their job, so it just never occurred to me that they would be hurt by what I said. It took many months, many apologies, and quite a few doughnuts, chocolates, and other gifties before those two women even came close to forgiving me. I'm not sure that they ever really did, and I worked closely with them for at least 10 more years after the incident. :confused3
 
As original poster on this, I find it interesting to read the variety of responses. There has been a recurring comment that essentially says words don't have mean or significance.

Words do have power and consequence.

-If I use racial slurs or vulgar language in the workplace, I will be verbally warned and/or fired. It doesn't matter if I use the terms in jest. I had a co-worker receive a written warning from HR for foul language.
-The FCC will fine radio and TV stations for the use of specific words on the air.
-My children are forbidden to use not just specific words but also words intended to bully other kids. The school district (and most around the country) do regular anti-bullying training and campaigns.
-Walk into a movie theatre and yell fire will get you arrested if there is no fire.
-Public slander can land you in court.

I realize we can all come up with examples of people being overly sensitive to words/phrases. I also realize we can come up words/phrases we use in our daily dialogue that we don't even realize are offensive to others.

I can understand someone that is not as geographically or personally connected to Columbine High School not being all that offend by the use of "going Columbine". This is one of the reasons I raised the concern in my original post. I don't want the memory of this horrible tragedy to be reduced to punchline of a joke. I will unapologetically tell anyone that uses the term "going Columbine" that I am offend and I would appreciate them not using that term around me. Call me narrowminded or overly sensitive, I don't care.

Regardless of your opinion on this matter, you are kidding yourself if you don't think words have power and consequences. I don't care how many people you quote. Words matter.
 

Going all "Meteor on the Dinosaurs" ...too soon?

We have all had incidents happen in our lives that have touched us in different ways. I have been on the other end of 911 calls, officer down calls, and officer involved shootings. Being directly involved gives you a different perspective. Life rolls on and letting those experiences stand in the way of life can only limits one's happiness. Using those moments in life as a crutch or reason to limit speech is oppressive.

There are plenty of us on the boards that have worked in Law Enforcement, Emergency Services, Military, and Fire that have a very open interpretation of words.

Using inappropriate words at work could violate a contract or terms of employment. Using the 7 dirties on the air, and not just broadcast frequencies, can violate FCC rules and regs and bring fines in violation of a license agreement with the FCC. And the folks in Gettysburg are quite thorough about prosecuting individuals that violate that. But these are all violations of a contract or agreement. When it comes to individuals, you, the person, are the only one that can let words hurt.
 
Originally Posted by Dizzytime View Post
It was an insensitive and extremely inappropriate comment. I don't think she should have said it, but don't know how her mind works and will reserve judgment until I hear her thoughts, if there are any forthcoming, as well as the Podcast crew's opportunity to address this.

Dizzytime, I don't think you reserved judgement at all. It may not have been your intent, but your comment is quite full of judgement. You have a right to judge (as does anyone), but then stating that you haven't made a judgement is just incongruent and was enough to get me to finally get into the discussion here.
OK, let me break it down. As I say, I feel it was an insensitive and extremely inappropriate comment, and it's hard to realize that there are people here that disagree that's the case, but that's just me. Regardless, what is more important than what was said is why she said it. Anyone can make a mistake, but does she feel like she did, or does any of the podcast crew feel what she said was wrong? If so, then I'm sure that will be explained. There may be no response at all, and if it's never mentioned or explained, then that's an answer too. That's why I'm reserving judgment.
I know it doesn't matter what I think, but since you quoted me I thought I'd respond. Thanks.

:goodvibes
 
As original poster on this, I find it interesting to read the variety of responses. There has been a recurring comment that essentially says words don't have mean or significance.

Words do have power and consequence.

-If I use racial slurs or vulgar language in the workplace, I will be verbally warned and/or fired. It doesn't matter if I use the terms in jest. I had a co-worker receive a written warning from HR for foul language.
-The FCC will fine radio and TV stations for the use of specific words on the air.
-My children are forbidden to use not just specific words but also words intended to bully other kids. The school district (and most around the country) do regular anti-bullying training and campaigns.
-Walk into a movie theatre and yell fire will get you arrested if there is no fire.
-Public slander can land you in court.

I realize we can all come up with examples of people being overly sensitive to words/phrases. I also realize we can come up words/phrases we use in our daily dialogue that we don't even realize are offensive to others.

I can understand someone that is not as geographically or personally connected to Columbine High School not being all that offend by the use of "going Columbine". This is one of the reasons I raised the concern in my original post. I don't want the memory of this horrible tragedy to be reduced to punchline of a joke. I will unapologetically tell anyone that uses the term "going Columbine" that I am offend and I would appreciate them not using that term around me. Call me narrowminded or overly sensitive, I don't care.

Regardless of your opinion on this matter, you are kidding yourself if you don't think words have power and consequences. I don't care how many people you quote. Words matter.

Of course "words matter." But the examples you cite are not fairly compared to the remark at issue.

I don't recall anyone here taking the position that words never have consequences. (All words should have some consequence, though the several shows that start with "Housewives of . . ." regretfully proves that many words do not).

The real question is when words should have significant adverse consequences. That normally depends on the degree of harm expressed in the word and the stature of the speaker.

I certainly do not want to be taken as saying I support every poster who disagreed with you and why they disagreed with you. Even so, I think your comparison misses the point several folks have made. You (and others) find the remark insensitive because of a horrific violent event. But you lose me when you compare the remark to a racial slur, which carries with it the sad, long history, of purposeful oppression of an entire race, or to a gender biased slur, which carries with it the sad, long history of treating women like chattels.

The other examples you cite have at their core a *direct* public safety concern, or, in the case of slander, a requirement of falsity and character harm.
 
re: "drinking the koolaid" . a common phrase that originated with a tragedy. just like "going postal"
 
Of course "words matter." But the examples you cite are not fairly compared to the remark at issue.

I don't recall anyone here taking the position that words never have consequences. (All words should have some consequence, though the several shows that start with "Housewives of . . ." regretfully proves that many words do not).

The real question is when words should have significant adverse consequences. That normally depends on the degree of harm expressed in the word and the stature of the speaker.

I certainly do not want to be taken as saying I support every poster who disagreed with you and why they disagreed with you. Even so, I think your comparison misses the point several folks have made. You (and others) find the remark insensitive because of a horrific violent event. But you lose me when you compare the remark to a racial slur, which carries with it the sad, long history, of purposeful oppression of an entire race, or to a gender biased slur, which carries with it the sad, long history of treating women like chattels.

The other examples you cite have at their core a *direct* public safety concern, or, in the case of slander, a requirement of falsity and character harm.

:thumbsup2
 
Of course "words matter." But the examples you cite are not fairly compared to the remark at issue.

I don't recall anyone here taking the position that words never have consequences. (All words should have some consequence, though the several shows that start with "Housewives of . . ." regretfully proves that many words do not).

The real question is when words should have significant adverse consequences. That normally depends on the degree of harm expressed in the word and the stature of the speaker.

I certainly do not want to be taken as saying I support every poster who disagreed with you and why they disagreed with you. Even so, I think your comparison misses the point several folks have made. You (and others) find the remark insensitive because of a horrific violent event. But you lose me when you compare the remark to a racial slur, which carries with it the sad, long history, of purposeful oppression of an entire race, or to a gender biased slur, which carries with it the sad, long history of treating women like chattels.

The other examples you cite have at their core a *direct* public safety concern, or, in the case of slander, a requirement of falsity and character harm.

I was not intending to make a comparison between "going Columbine" and the 4 examples of how words have consequences. I was attempting to dispel several previous posts that said words lack consequences or meaning.

You and anyone else are free to disagree with me on whether "going Columbine" is offensive. However, I will not back down from words do mean something and the words we say do impact others.
 
It was a poor choice of words and I am sure the person was not out to intentionally cause anyone distress. It was a mistake and people make those every day.

What would be an appropriate punishment that would satisfy those who were most offended? Should the person resign or write a personal letter of apology to everyone within earshot of the podcast?

What's done is done. Better to see it for what it was and move on.
 
What if she said "going new town" or "going uc Santa Barbara"? Would people find that offensive?
 
From Research Digest:

http://bps-research-digest.blogspot.com/2014/01/locating-sweet-spot-when-jokes-about.html

As a tragedy unfolds, only the callous or gauche would joke about it. Yet with time, topics previously off limits come to be seen as fair game for humour. In fact, joke-making about loss and tragedy can be seen as a way to cope, or at least a reflection of coping. For a new study, Peter McGraw and his colleagues have charted people's responses over time to jokes about a real tragedy - Hurricane Sandy, which struck the USA in 2012. The researchers were able to plot the way that the jokes were seen as funny prior to landfall, then offensive and unfunny as disaster struck, then funny as the horror faded, then unfunny again, presumably as the event lost its impact and topicality. "We find that temporal distance creates a comedic sweet spot," they said.

Over a thousand participants were recruited online at different times. They were asked to rate three potentially humorous tweets ostensibly written by Hurricane Sandy. For instance, one said "Oh **** just destroyed a Starbucks. Now I'm a pumpkin spice hurricane."

The participants were recruited at ten different time periods, beginning the day before landfall (Oct 29, 2012), and then in the ensuing days and weeks, so that the final sample to be contacted rated the tweets on February 6, 2013. People's responses fell into two distinct time frames. Over the course of the week during which the hurricane struck, the funniness of the tweets peaked prior to its arrival and then gradually diminished as the reality of loss and devastation became apparent. The second time frame covered two weeks to 99 days after the hurricane struck. Gradually, week-by-week, people rated the tweets as increasingly funny, with peak funniness observed at 36 days after the tragedy.

McGraw and his team said this result was consistent with "benign violation theory" - the idea that something is humorous when it is seen as both a threat and somehow safe at the same time. The perception of safety comes from psychological distance - in this study created by the passage of time, but geography, social distance (i.e. the threat is to someone else) and hypothetical distance (i.e. the threat is unreal) can all have the same effect.

In this research, as the tragic event of the hurricane faded into the past, it became safe to joke about it. Supporting this idea, people's ratings of the offensiveness of the jokes declined in tandem with their perceived funniness. However, benign violation theory predicts that humour disappears when there is too little threat. This was borne out as ratings of the funniness of the jokes gradually declined from 36 days after the tragedy.

The researchers said future research could explore how other forms of psychological distance modulate the perceived funniness of jokes. For now they said their results favour a modification to the popular saying "humour is tragedy plus time" … "Transforming tragedy into comedy requires time, not too little yet not too much," they said.
 
I was not intending to make a comparison between "going Columbine" and the 4 examples of how words have consequences. I was attempting to dispel several previous posts that said words lack consequences or meaning.

You and anyone else are free to disagree with me on whether "going Columbine" is offensive. However, I will not back down from words do mean something and the words we say do impact others.

Bear in mind, i agreed with your premise even if I didn't agree with your examples and their applicability to the current discussion. But while you may not have intended to make the comparison, you did make it. Again, I'm agreeing with you that words have consequences.

Honestly, it isn't up to me or anyone else to agree or disagree whether you or anyone else find this or any other phrase offensive.

Years ago, some genius mailed a bomb to the state office where my daughter's mom worked when she and my daughter were in the room next to the targeted official. Violence isn't a subject I joke about. I just don't find it funny. But just because I find a comment humorless doesn't mean I take offense. As I said, I try to understand whether the person making the comment meant to be offensive.
 
Offense is relative. Always.

The very concept that people should expect a right to not be offended or made uncomfortable is something new and is probably misdirected. The words aren't as important as the reaction to them.
 
Agree...and Pete himself has said a lot worse than the comment being discussed. I don't think any of them are intentional, but it's live, it gets emotional, and it just happens. I applaud them for all of them feeling comfortable enough to say what they want...nice to see a group not playing "the game."

I disagree. Pete has been offensive, but I've never heard him joke about innocent lives lost.
Using the murder of children as a metaphor is NOT funny. If it is, then are jokes about rape, homosexuals, mentally challenged people, etc...... Ok? Should she be exiled? No. Should she apologize? Yes.
 
I disagree. Pete has been offensive, but I've never heard him joke about innocent lives lost.
Using the murder of children as a metaphor is NOT funny. If it is, then are jokes about rape, homosexuals, mentally challenged people, etc...... Ok? Should she be exiled? No. Should she apologize? Yes.

I am not sure that anyone should apologize for anything. I do not believe the comment was used in a context meant to be funny.

Going all "Henry VIII on his wives (Divorced, beheaded, died, divorced, beheaded, survived)" ...too soon?
 
Two words have generated 98 posts.

Here's to hoping J.L. says three controversial words tomorrow.

popcorn::


too soon? :rolleyes1
 
Going all "Henry VIII on his wives (Divorced, beheaded, died, divorced, beheaded, survived)" ...too soon?

Henry VIII - affectionately referred to in my circle of late mdvl/early modernists as 'everyone's favorite serial wife-killer'.

[Yeah ,yeah.. been one of those in the news not too long ago. But we need to be less afraid of being non-PC].
 
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