"Godless Heathens" Support thread - no bashing please :)

[Took]

Although I'm not on the boards very often, I'm still part of this thread. No "prayer warriors" (or any other kind of warriors) in this house. :

Took

 

[Micca]

Hey y'all--Saying hello

 

[Laura]

I got some very sad news tonight. My SIL's father is very ill with pneumonia and not expected to last the night. He's been battling leukemia for years and got a cord blood transplant three months ago. Due to the transplant his immune system has been kept in check so the graft has time to mature and begin fighting the leukemia--and now he'll very possibly die of pneumonia in a hospital far away from his home. SIL's family are all atheists. My father called me to let me know, and in his usual Catholic way, asked me to pray.

I honestly don't believe prayer changes anything. Whatever will happen, will happen. I think those who do pray can find comfort in it, and I do believe in the power of positive thinking. But I don't believe in a god that answers our prayers or interferes with our lives. We may get what we want if we pray for it--the wonders of modern medicine may cure my SIL's dad of his pneumonia and he will live another day--or we may not. But it's not up to any god.

 

[Mean Queen]

I got some very sad news tonight. My SIL's father is very ill with pneumonia and not expected to last the night. He's been battling leukemia for years and got a cord blood transplant three months ago. Due to the transplant his immune system has been kept in check so the graft has time to mature and begin fighting the leukemia--and now he'll very possibly die of pneumonia in a hospital far away from his home. SIL's family are all atheists. My father called me to let me know, and in his usual Catholic way, asked me to pray.

I honestly don't believe prayer changes anything. Whatever will happen, will happen. I think those who do pray can find comfort in it, and I do believe in the power of positive thinking. But I don't believe in a god that answers our prayers or interferes with our lives. We may get what we want if we pray for it--the wonders of modern medicine may cure my SIL's dad of his pneumonia and he will live another day--or we may not. But it's not up to any god.

I'm very sorry to hear about your SIL's father. Losing a parent is a horrible thing. I know when my mom died, many people offered their prayers. I know it was their way of dealing with death and I didn't have a problem with that. Whatever brings you comfort in tough times.

 

[Laura]

I'm very sorry to hear about your SIL's father. Losing a parent is a horrible thing. I know when my mom died, many people offered their prayers. I know it was their way of dealing with death and I didn't have a problem with that. Whatever brings you comfort in tough times.

I certainly don't have a problem with people praying or asking for prayers in a tough time (unless they're telling me they're praying for me because I'm no longer Christian). My father's request just had me thinking about the effectiveness of it.

Haven't heard anything yet--maybe no news is good news.

 

[Mean Queen]

I certainly don't have a problem with people praying or asking for prayers in a tough time (unless they're telling me they're praying for me because I'm no longer Christian). My father's request just had me thinking about the effectiveness of it.

Haven't heard anything yet--maybe no news is good news.

I knew you wouldn't have a problem with it, but I always feel the need to elaborate for the lurkers who don't. I like to dispell that "Atheist is evil and hates God/Christianity/Jesus etc." stereotype. My mom did get a lot of "You must find Jesus!" talks before she died that drove us both up a wall.

I think the only effect the prayers have is on the person praying. It makes them feel like they are doing something in a situation where they have no control.

 

[Kath2003]

I'm taking my heathen butt off to my boyfriend's place, so we can figure out how to end this long distance (well, 50 miles) relationship and finally get to live in sin

 

[PrincessV]

I'm here. Also avoiding the CB like the plague.

I got some very sad news tonight.

I'm so sorry.

I don't generally butt heads with folks over my beliefs, but the asking for prayers is a tough one for me. With people I don't know well, my saying "I'll be sure to keep ____ in my thoughts" is sufficient, but family and close friends seem perplexed by that. And I don't think those times are the best for launching into a full-scale dissertation on my belief system, right?

 

[Mean Queen]

I'm taking my heathen butt off to my boyfriend's place, so we can figure out how to end this long distance (well, 50 miles) relationship and finally get to live in sin

Good luck! I recommend splitting the difference. Before DH and I were married, we each drove an hour in the opposite direction to work so we could live together.

 

[robinb]

I think the only effect the prayers have is on the person praying. It makes them feel like they are doing something in a situation where they have no control.

Yes, I totally agree. I also think that it brings comfort to others like Laura's father to know that others are praying for them or their loved ones. {{Hugs}} to you Laura and your family.

As an atheist, I don't believe in prayer.

 

[pperfectmom]

I hate the whole situation when you are asked to pray for someone or when they say they will pray for you. I'm never quite sure how to respond. I usually just say "I will keep you and your family in my thoughts." I want to offer comfort, but not at the expense of my beliefs(or lack thereof).

We were discussing religion at work the other night and I told somebody that I was too lazy to even be a good pagan. I guess while I was out hoeing my garden earlier, I was communing with nature. That was my spiritual moment for the day.

 

[Laura]

Well, apparently my SIL was being too hasty last night saying her dad wouldn't live through the night, because he did. Things were really bad last night, though. They gave him a ton of prednisone to kill the pneumonia and apparently he'd had a heart attack. Last I heard today, he's still unconscious but he's stable, BP and heart rate back to normal. My brother should be there by now, and he'll be able to update us later. Wait and see, I guess...

Thanks for the , everyone. It's been a tough road for her dad with leukemia, and this transplant is supposed to be the cure--we don't want the cure to kill him!

To pperfectmom, I'm the same; it makes me a little uncomfortable to be asked to pray for someone when I don't believe in it. It was especially odd since SIL's family is atheist and I know they wouldn't ask for it--though they wouldn't spurn someone who told them they were in their prayers. (And I'm also too lazy to be a good pagan. )

 

[bicker]

So, I'm wondering this morning...

Is it that the intolerant cretins in our society want everyone to believe exactly what they believe? or is it that they want everyone not like them to be gone? or do they want everyone not like them to kowtow to their beliefs?

I think it is more and more often becoming the latter. The first one is almost too benevolent. The second one too mean. The third one gets then that injection of the feeling of power that I think a lot of them are looking for, these days.

Discuss....

 

[Laura]

So, I'm wondering this morning...

Is it that the intolerant cretins in our society want everyone to believe exactly what they believe? or is it that they want everyone not like them to be gone? or do they want everyone not like them to kowtow to their beliefs?

I think it is more and more often becoming the latter. The first one is almost too benevolent. The second one too mean. The third one gets then that injection of the feeling of power that I think a lot of them are looking for, these days.

Discuss....

I think it's the first and the second in a combination. But I think most religious people are quite content with their own beliefs and live their lives without much concern for others' beliefs. It's the nutjobs who yell the loudest and, frankly, make things more difficult for the "normal" believers.



In other news, my SIL's father died yesterday. We're all very sad. It was Acute Respiratory Distress Syndrome that he contracted over a week ago and it was just too much for him to fight off. Multiple organ failure, etc. Things were looking hopeful just a few weeks ago, and a bone marrow biopsy showed that his new immune system was doing well, and it was keeping his leukemia at bay. The ARDS really came out of nowhere.

 

[PrincessV]

So, I'm wondering this morning...

Is it that the intolerant cretins in our society want everyone to believe exactly what they believe? or is it that they want everyone not like them to be gone? or do they want everyone not like them to kowtow to their beliefs?

I think it is more and more often becoming the latter. The first one is almost too benevolent. The second one too mean. The third one gets then that injection of the feeling of power that I think a lot of them are looking for, these days.

Discuss....

Based on what I've experienced personally, I think a combination of all of the above. I don't see a lot of overt proselytizing where I live, save for my ex-in laws and a lady I work with. My co-worker really lives what she preaches, believes it with all her heart and is one of the most truly "good" people I've ever known. She loves her religion so much, and it makes her so happy, she just wants to share that with other people. But she won't push it on you if you say "No thanks."

My former in-laws, however, are just plain mean. They're all about the non-believers "getting what's coming to them". They reek "holier than thou" and use religion as an excuse to be nasty. That's why they're EX in-laws.

In other news, my SIL's father died yesterday.

I'm so sorry.

 

[bicker]

Religious Americans: My faith isn't the only way

Survey shows growing religious tolerance when it comes to different faiths

Full story: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/25334489/

 

[Mean Queen]

I think it's the first and the second in a combination. But I think most religious people are quite content with their own beliefs and live their lives without much concern for others' beliefs. It's the nutjobs who yell the loudest and, frankly, make things more difficult for the "normal" believers.



In other news, my SIL's father died yesterday. We're all very sad. It was Acute Respiratory Distress Syndrome that he contracted over a week ago and it was just too much for him to fight off. Multiple organ failure, etc. Things were looking hopeful just a few weeks ago, and a bone marrow biopsy showed that his new immune system was doing well, and it was keeping his leukemia at bay. The ARDS really came out of nowhere.

I also think it's a mix of the three, depending on the person and their belief. The more extreme the belief, the more extreme the position. I have definitely met people who want all non-believers removed from the face of the Earth. But more often, I meet people who want everyone to believe as they do. It seems to be a way of validating their belief, by having the numbers behind them.

I'm very sorry about your SIL's father.

 

[Kath2003]

So, I'm wondering this morning...

Is it that the intolerant cretins in our society want everyone to believe exactly what they believe? or is it that they want everyone not like them to be gone? or do they want everyone not like them to kowtow to their beliefs?

I think it is more and more often becoming the latter. The first one is almost too benevolent. The second one too mean. The third one gets then that injection of the feeling of power that I think a lot of them are looking for, these days.

Discuss....

They wouldn't be happy if everyone believed what they believe - it's why religious sects appear. There needs to be something for them to define themselves against - something which they are not, an 'other'. We define ourselves as heathens against the 'other' (religious folk). They need the same. If everyone believed, they'd decide a group of people didn't 'believe right' and therefore create another 'other' to define themselves against. It's the same way some denominations of Christians believe that you have to be of the 'evangelical' variety (don't know what they call them in the US, maybe SBs? The ones who believe that it's entirely belief, nothing to do with works, born against, fundies etc.) to be 'saved' - they're defining themselves by creating an 'other' within their own group.

 

[freckles and boo]

They wouldn't be happy if everyone believed what they believe - it's why religious sects appear. There needs to be something for them to define themselves against - something which they are not, an 'other'. We define ourselves as heathens against the 'other' (religious folk). They need the same. If everyone believed, they'd decide a group of people didn't 'believe right' and therefore create another 'other' to define themselves against. It's the same way some denominations of Christians believe that you have to be of the 'evangelical' variety (don't know what they call them in the US, maybe SBs? The ones who believe that it's entirely belief, nothing to do with works, born against, fundies etc.) to be 'saved' - they're defining themselves by creating an 'other' within their own group.

I agree to a point. I think most religiously pushy people actually BELIEVE they want others to share their faith. If everyone did believe the same thing, though, it would be impossible to assert one's superiority. There is a human social need to be better than others. I think that is why "Satan" plays so heavily in some people's belief system. He is the built-in excuse for human evil.

 

[JodyLynC]

How is everyone doing today? I thought I'd give this thread a nice bump and say "Hello!"