Glitch in the new system - 190 Day ADRs?

[Cafeen]

Seems like some majorly sloppy programming. I'm really surprised they would launch the new system with such a major flaw (esp. the inability to even check for a fake/invalid reservation #!) I know video games (and most software nowadays) are beta tested by the public. If that is what WDW did in this case it was lazy and it's not really fair to punish those who found the flaw in their system for them (by cancelling their reservations).

I'm curious though how they could possibly go back and flag all of the reservations that were made before their 180 mark. Wouldn't WDW have to confirm reservation #'s, calculate 180 days from arrival and then cross reference with when ADR's were made ... for everyone that that has made a reservation under the new system. Wouldn't that be more complex than the proper code that should have been written into the system in the first place? Sounds like a big bloody mess & it makes me nervous if WDW started trying to weed out illegitimate reservations - my 180 is tomorrow! I really don't want them trying to go through and start cancelling anyone's stuff (just saying, their IT is reknowned for it's incompetence ...)

Warning: Nerd Alert (and book alert) in the following reply!
It is very sloppy programming. I'd be in serious trouble if I let something like that slip through. (I do QA and some development for a software company). The system is in public beta, so it's understandable that there are some issues, but something as simple and important as reservation validation should have been caught in pre-beta.

First off, yes, it would be more complex to retroactively find the "invalid" ADRs. It's not horribly complex, but that's because the initial validation process is pretty simple. For the initial validation, it would be a simple check that the resort confirmation number exists and the check-in date is valid. Ex:

SELECT TOP 1 ReservationID FROM dbo.ResortReservations WHERE ReservationNumber like '12345678' AND CheckInDate = 'xx/xx/xxxx'
​

Of course, that's not real code (well, it's real code, just not real to the Disney Resort system database), as I don't know the structure of the Disney Resort system database, but it's an idea. If the record is found, then the reservation exists and it can process forward using that ReservationID. If no records are found, the reservation does not exist and the web page should kick out an error to the user. It's a pretty simple step really.

To find the "invalid" ADRs, the system would have to compare the ADR creation date (if they don't store this, they are worse than I thought... and I don't think highly of them at all) with the Check-In date from the reservation. It's not that difficult really and the hardest bit is getting the math right (with dates it gets tricky). If it were just about any other company, I'd definitely think they'd get it right. I don't have the same confidence in the Disney development team though.

As far as it being "punishment" or not, I don't see it that way. Punishment would be not allowing those that exploited the error to make any further ADRs, removing ADRs made in error would just be fixing a problem. We don't know the ramifications of those early ADRs or even their validity in the system. Of course, as I mentioned above, were this any software team buy Disney's, I might be a bit more inclined that they'd get this part right.

frankly I'm not certain that the 190 IS an error. I think it is more fair and an easier to understand system. Only time will tell.

We'll abide with whatever the rules turn out to be - I've seen posts of people adding fake days to the beginning of a stay to make reservations early (under the old 180 + 10). We don't do that sort of thing.

There are clearly glitches right now, so who knows WHAT the final outcome will be. If Disney doesn't honor what we did at 190 days, then we'll start over again.

Still, I think 190 is much better than 180, and easier to understand. If you are onsite, you get 10 extra days in which to make reservations.

oh, and Cafeen, I do tend to think that Disney could catch the fake reservation #s longer term. they wouldn't be a match on name, etc. They clearly released the updates too soon. My firm would be in a heck of a lot of trouble if we pulled something like that for a client, lol.

For sure they could, but it's much easier to catch at the entry point than somewhere down the line. A lot depends on how the ADRs are stored in the system and whether or not they are directly tied to the resort confirmation. Up until now, they were not tied directly at all, only the ability to a) book with the +10 and b) pay with attached dining plans was stored. The actual reservation was not stored with the ADRs at all. This is proven by the fact that users could make ADRs under a resort reservation, then cancel that resort reservation without affecting their ADRs one bit.

I would doubt that a large-scale back-end change was made for the V2 site as that could cause much more damage than the front-end changes we see. It would also be detrimental to the fact that people's plans change and with the competitive nature of ADRs, they shouldn't be forced to lose them all if they decide to stay somewhere else.

As to the intention, for me it's pretty clear through testing and through messaging on the website that 190 days is not intended. This is supported by the poster's experience with the phone CM stating it was a bug (of course, we all know about the level of knowledge those phone CMs actually have, so that's not taken as full confirmation or anything). I also think a change of this nature would have been announced, much like the changes from 180 to 90 to 180 were. (Maybe not quite as early or "in your face" as those were, but some sort of messaging as it's not a minor change in policy).

We'd be in a lot of hot water for releasing something with this large of a hole in it as well. We'd be in hotter water for not reverting it back as soon as the exploit was found as well. Sometimes, these things really want to make me work for their development team . Heck, it's not like I can do any worse!

I really can't see Disney "punishing" those of us who made reservations early for *their* flawed system. So much easier to just fix the issue, then let all the reservations stand. I really can't imagine that the system has been flooded with those of us checking in around Thanksgiving, snapping up reservations -- after all, I never would have known to try if I hadn't checked in here.

But, maybe I feel this way just because I benefited (only by 2 days early). I'll be checking tomorrow morning for sure to make sure my ADRs are still there!

I doubt it's widespread, yet. If it persists, it will be though.

Also, like I mentioned above (way above in this book I'm writing ><), I don't see it as punishment persay. It may just be semantics though, but I just know what I would do when faced with the same situation (granted, I would have reverted back to v1 as soon as the problem became apparent). I do hope that the ADRs that were made early stick, but just be sure that you continue checking them both after the 180day mark as well as beyond that in case they do retroactively do something.

I'm sure we'll see some sort of fix or announcement soon enough. (Though, I may be holding out too much hope with their dev teams on that one). I too have sent the results of my testing over to guest services in hopes that it helps them either fix, or give confirmation on what the intended behavior should be.

ETA:

Hmm, if their IT is so notoriously bad, I wonder if they would be hiring any Software QA Engineers, with about 10 years of experience....

Oh well, a disney fan can dream I suppose...

But if anyone knows where to submit resumes....

I'm right along there with you (though, with only 8 years of experience myself, but I do run our Automation project as well as do some development work alongside my other duties).

Of course, the pay may be an issue as well. Disney is not known for being a decent paying employer .

 

[maiapapaya]

Warning: Nerd Alert (and book alert) in the following reply!
It is very sloppy programming. I'd be in serious trouble if I let something like that slip through. (I do QA and some development for a software company). The system is in public beta, so it's understandable that there are some issues, but something as simple and important as reservation validation should have been caught in pre-beta.

This is what I meant. Heck, it seems like a pretty easy glaring error. And based on your description it doesn't seem like it would have been that difficult to confirm reservations .

I seriously don't understand why WDW isn't better with IT. There's got to be lots of good geeks out there who would like the coolness factor of working for the mouse enough to put up with the not-so-great pay.

Oh, and I didn't mean WDW cancelling ADR's as a punishment as in purposely inflicting retribution, I just meant it would essentially be a punishment (even if they were rectifying a computer error and not trying to slap on the wrist).

 

[Inkmahm]

I really hope that Disney keeps the current 190 days for guests staying on property. It is more fair that a day's ADRs open at the same time for all people staying on property that day, IMHO.

 

[jerlove]

Okay here is where my concern would lie with regards to them possibly cancelling these reservations. My booking window opens up at June 1. I jumped on line before going to bed to refresh my memory of what time I needed to be up to book my reservations only to find out that people have been booking early this whole time.

I went ahead and booked my reservations with the "everyone else is doing it" mentality only mear hours before my actual time should be. Now I am wondering if I should get up at 5:00am and "double book" them all again correctly. If they do decide to cancel these reservations that were made early are they going to let me know tonight so I do not miss my start time tomorrow? I don't think so.

Ahhh the dilema, Karma could come back and bite us all for maniuplating the system. But if I waited perhaps I would not have got what I wanted. It was bad enough that I could not get Le Celier before 8:20pm now as it is. If I waited until I was supposed to be able to book would I have gotten it all with everyone else having already taken advantage of an obvious glitch.

If they do decide to cancel these reservations they will not do it in time to benefit those of us booking tomorrow so that we can have a fair shake at getting these reservations on our correct ADR dates? I do not think so.

I guess only time will tell what they do.

 

[tpettie]

hopeing it doesn't back fire but I booked was very happy not to have to set my alarm for 4am

 

[txmama]

Early ADRs seem OK this morning, and I just made my CRT reservation. One hypothesis -- they either knew about (or intended) the "glitch" -- because they kept Hoop-De-Do and Cindy's Table and Aloha right at 180 days. I have not been able to make that CRT reservation until today, my 180 mark.

Why not shift those to the new system too? Because they wanted to keep the most popular reservations at 180 for sure, but were willing to experiment with everything else?

 

[wahooker]

Early ADRs seem OK this morning, and I just made my CRT reservation. One hypothesis -- they either knew about (or intended) the "glitch" -- because they kept Hoop-De-Do and Cindy's Table and Aloha right at 180 days. I have not been able to make that CRT reservation until today, my 180 mark.

Why not shift those to the new system too? Because they wanted to keep the most popular reservations at 180 for sure, but were willing to experiment with everything else?

I dont think it's anything that well thought out... those 2 use a different reservation system, and apparently the bug only affects one of the systems.

 

[tigger813]

I can't believe DH didn't see this. Our 180 day mark is Friday but we may just try and do it tonight since everyone else is doing it! Though there is the concern that someone else posted about Disney canceling the ADRs that were done too early! I don't think we have any major ones like CRT or CM so I hope we are still ok.

 

[Cafeen]

I really hope that Disney keeps the current 190 days for guests staying on property. It is more fair that a day's ADRs open at the same time for all people staying on property that day, IMHO.

The thing is, right now it's not only on-site guests who can do this. Anyone can if they know how to work the system (which few will, agreed). If this was intentional @ 190days, why not just have everyone do it at 180 instead? Same result, easier to manage since the pre-paid ADRs and other reservation items (tours, recreation, etc) are still at 180.

Why not shift those to the new system too? Because they wanted to keep the most popular reservations at 180 for sure, but were willing to experiment with everything else?

The pre-payment probably throws things for a loop, and they didn't want to muck with possible payment issues during the beta of the v2 site. At least that's my theory. They do bad enough as it is without involving the need for refunds and all that .

I can't believe DH didn't see this. Our 180 day mark is Friday but we may just try and do it tonight since everyone else is doing it! Though there is the concern that someone else posted about Disney canceling the ADRs that were done too early! I don't think we have any major ones like CRT or CM so I hope we are still ok.

Keep in mind, I'm the only one who mentioned it. Whether or not Disney is even considering it is unknown (they haven't mentioned anything about it).

For the others, I didn't mean to alarm sorry about that. Just meant to keep an eye out on your ADRs as you pass your 180 mark, and then beyond (especially once they fix it... sometime in 2012...).

 

[tigger813]

I did one reservation to try it out and I can book through Dec. 8th which is that last full day of our trip anyways. I booked our Crystal Palace b'fast. DH and I will go on and book our other things tonight. I checked everything and everything looks pretty open so I can wait for tonight!

 

[tpettie]

I booked everything yesterday afternoon a day before my 180 mark. I called disney this morning to confirm and so far all seems good to go

 

[jerlove]

I booked all of my reservations prior to my 180 day mark taking advantage of the glitch last night. However I am concerned about the speculation that Disney may cancel these reservations that were made by exploiting the glitch.

I just had a conversation that had my spidey senses tingling so I went back and re-booked all of my reservations on my actual booking day (today).

I was talking to a CM regarding the Fantasmic package and ask if I could just link my current reservation at MM to the package. I was asked to give her my reservation number which I did and when she put it in and tried to see if it could be made into a fantasmic package she kept getting a message popping up saying that the reservation was made outside of booking window!! I asked her if it was still a valid reservation and she replied that it was but could not figure out why it was saying what it was saying. I mentioned that the on line system let me book it a day early but she could not seem to figure out why it would not let her change anything.

I am not sure if they are in the process of "flagging" these reservations and she was sure to tell me that it was still valid but I did not want to take a chance so I rebooked everything.

Just thought I would share. Hopefully it is nothing to worry about but I did not want to risk it.

 

[poohj80]

i got to book Le Cellier a looong time before my 180 days! after 5 years of trying, I finally got it!

This must be why we could not get anything for Le Cellier at our 180 Day window this morning.

 

[vicki_c]

I was talking to a CM regarding the Fantasmic package and ask if I could just link my current reservation at MM to the package. I was asked to give her my reservation number which I did and when she put it in and tried to see if it could be made into a fantasmic package she kept getting a message popping up saying that the reservation was made outside of booking window!! I asked her if it was still a valid reservation and she replied that it was but could not figure out why it was saying what it was saying. I mentioned that the on line system let me book it a day early but she could not seem to figure out why it would not let her change anything.
.

Not related to the 180/190 day thing - you can't change an ADR to the Fantasmic package. The original ADR has to be cancelled and a F! package booked in its place.

 

[dawnmommy]

This must be why we could not get anything for Le Cellier at our 180 Day window this morning.

I'm not sure I understand - Le Cellier is notorious hard to get, especially during the first part of a stay (under the "old" 180 + 10, as those reserving before you already got it)

So you think that the one person above you who read about the 190 days change (which no one knows if it is permanent or not) is the reason you cannot book Le Cellier for your entire stay?

Isn't Le Cellier already the hardest to book?

I'd be annoyed if anyone lied, made a fake ressie then changed it later, etc - that sort of thing to snag Le Cellier. But right now, no one knows if the 190 is permanent or not. No one is trying to be sneaky - or they wouldn't have posted it on here to share the information with others!

just not sure I understand your post and why it appears you blame one poster for their one reservation on one day during your trip? At the hardest-to-book restaurant in all of WDW?

 

[tpettie]

I booked all of my reservations prior to my 180 day mark taking advantage of the glitch last night. However I am concerned about the speculation that Disney may cancel these reservations that were made by exploiting the glitch.

I just had a conversation that had my spidey senses tingling so I went back and re-booked all of my reservations on my actual booking day (today).

I was talking to a CM regarding the Fantasmic package and ask if I could just link my current reservation at MM to the package. I was asked to give her my reservation number which I did and when she put it in and tried to see if it could be made into a fantasmic package she kept getting a message popping up saying that the reservation was made outside of booking window!! I asked her if it was still a valid reservation and she replied that it was but could not figure out why it was saying what it was saying. I mentioned that the on line system let me book it a day early but she could not seem to figure out why it would not let her change anything.

I am not sure if they are in the process of "flagging" these reservations and she was sure to tell me that it was still valid but I did not want to take a chance so I rebooked everything.

Just thought I would share. Hopefully it is nothing to worry about but I did not want to risk it.

I had the same experience this morning doing my fantasmic too. How did you rebook? what if the time slot is no longer availlable?

 

[Inkmahm]

I'm not sure I understand - Le Cellier is notorious hard to get, especially during the first part of a stay (under the "old" 180 + 10, as those reserving before you already got it)

So you think that the one person above you who read about the 190 days change (which no one knows if it is permanent or not) is the reason you cannot book Le Cellier for your entire stay?

Isn't Le Cellier already the hardest to book?

I'd be annoyed if anyone lied, made a fake ressie then changed it later, etc - that sort of thing to snag Le Cellier. But right now, no one knows if the 190 is permanent or not. No one is trying to be sneaky - or they wouldn't have posted it on here to share the information with others!

just not sure I understand your post and why it appears you blame one poster for their one reservation on one day during your trip? At the hardest-to-book restaurant in all of WDW?

I don't think the poster was blaming the one person, just the fact that many could book at 190 days instead of the old 180 + 10. This is exactly why I think the 190 days is more fair (assuming everyone would know about it!) Everyone has access to the popular restaurants at the same time. It doesn't matter if you checked in 9 or 10 days before me, I have access to booking the same time you do at the 190 day mark. I like it and really hope it is not a glitsch.

 

[dawnmommy]

I don't think the poster was blaming the one person, just the fact that many could book at 190 days instead of the old 180 + 10. This is exactly why I think the 190 days is more fair (assuming everyone would know about it!) Everyone has access to the popular restaurants at the same time. It doesn't matter if you checked in 9 or 10 days before me, I have access to booking the same time you do at the 190 day mark. I like it and really hope it is not a glitsch.

Inkmahn, I am another one who hopes it is not a glitch. I agree that the 190 days is actually much more fair (but Disney will need to communicate that soon, if it is the case)

Hopefully we'll know soon, but 190 is much more fair to onsite guests than 180 + 10.

 

[Tricia1972]

Right now nobody knows if this is a glitch or not, but it is what it is. The Disney Dining Online ADR System currently allows reservations to be made at 190 days out and everyone can book through December 8th today.

Some reservations are notoriously hard to get, and it's not very likely that the small percentage of people on the DIS, TourguideMike, etc., are making a huge impact on restaurants. The accusation that a few people on this thread are affecting others on the DIS is really unfair.

Hopefully this thread can remain an open friendly exchange of information about when you can make your Disney Dining ADRs online.

 

[vicki_c]

Can anyone explain how 190 days is more fair than 180+10 because I keep seeing people say that? Are you saying that if you had to call 190 days out from EACH date you wanted a reservation for, then it would be more fair? I guess, I could see that, but I would be very unhappy if you had to do that - I like the fact that I can make one phone call and book 10 days worth of reservations.

Because if the glitchy way it is now now working is 190+10, I don't see any fairness difference at all.

(And with that said, I have not read all the posts in this thread, but I thought it was currently allowing people to book multiple days, but starting at 190 days out from arrival date vs. 180 days out).

The whole fairness thing is kind of silly, IMO - people perceive it as unfair that someone arriving earlier can book into some of their dates making availability for some places difficult. But the person who thinks it's unfair is doing the exact same thing to someone else who arrives later than them. In the end, it's a wash for most people - globally.