Getting flame suit on........

[Ms.Mouse]

I might get flamed for this but I think the "hatred" of the dining plan falls into two buckets:

1. People who are not able to take advantage of the dining plan, for whatever reason.

2. That old socioeconomic sense of entitlement. Simply put, people who consider themselves of a higher socioeconomic class want to be surrounded by like individuals. They do not want groups of lower-middle class families invading their favorite restauraunts. That sort of thinking does still exist in the world. But, of course, no one will admit that. Instead, it is easier to find excuses such as the inconvienence of ADRs ( a reality whether the dining plan existed or not ), crowds ( whether it be the dining plan or some other promotion, Disney's job is to put people in the parks ), reduction in service ( which has been proven that it is not related at all to the dining plan ) or reduction in offerings at certain restaurants ( all restaurants change offerings in menu selections from time to time ).

If you really read between the lines of the posts of those who feveriously oppose the dining plan, you will find there is one common theme..Only those who can afford to pay OOP to eat at some of these resteraunts should be eating there.

Ok..off my soap box now...

WOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Never thought of it that way ..... Well, I think the dining plan is great (even though I'm excluded from it, being DVC owner). This way, people who couldn't afford to eat at some of the "better" places otherwise can have a chance to experience them also.

AND I just don't understand those who say it cuts so much on availability because I made reservations for DH and I about 45 days out during the free dining period and was able to get our choices without a problem and during regluar dining times also (6:15-7pm)....AND, I made the reservations at some good restaurants too....like.... Alfredo's, Grand Floridian Cafe, Flying Fish Cafe, Yachtsman, Raglan Road, Kona, Chefs De France... AND... I was able to get a couple of these over the past week because I changed my mind.
I'm sure you may have to juggle your times around and may not be able to get into a couple of the more popular restaurants (like CM's, LeCellier, WCC) BUT there are soooo many others to choose from...

 

[DiszyDean]

Coral Reef is a Disney restaurant. I doubt Coral Reef management had any choice with the decision but rather had to re-do the menu so they could profitably operate with the reduced reimbursement schedule.

Coral Reef is the easiest example since major menu changes occurred at the same time the restaurant change from 2 to 1 credit. Lobster is the easiest example to post but there were major other menu cutbacks. Bicker did a comparison if you want to search.

Posters have listed other cutbacks at other restaurants but Coral Reef is the easiest example. Other restaurants have had more gradual changes. CRT has had menu changes and went to signature status, in part do to MYW Dining. The signature slipper dessert was omitted due to dining guests.

I am not denying that certain restaurants have scaled down their menu. However, it seems that everytime a place changes their menu, certain people assume that it is in direct relation to the dining plan and nothing else. I feel like it is a convienent excuse to support their argument against the dining plan. As if there were no menu changes ever before the dining plan ( current incarnation ) came into existance.

 

[Lewisc]

You asked for reasons but you seem to dismiss reasonable objections and are looking for guests who have an agenda. You don't want to be flamed but YOU DISMISS ALL THE VALID OBJECTIONS and seem to be looking for class warfare as being the real objection.

Is it a coincidence that CR deleted all the menu items that featured expensive ingredients: lobster, shrimp and scallop entrées at the same time the restaurant went to 1 credit? Is it a coincidence that Oliva's cut back the menu at about the same time DVC guests could purchase dining? Do you believe the posters who were told at Prime Time that the S'mores were cut back in size because MYW guests were ordering one per guest and not one or two per table, as the dessert was sized for? Do cash guests have a valid objection if the portions sizes are being reduced but the menu prices stay the same (or is even increased)? That the slipper dessert was deleted at CRT because too many MYW Dining guests were ordering it?

I've used the dining plan twice, it's a good deal. It's a shame that dining guests aren't willing to accept exclusions and/or surcharges for one or two "signature" entrees per restaurant. Offer lobster to guests who are willing to pay as opposed to dropping it from the menu.

I am not denying that certain restaurants have scaled down their menu. However, it seems that everytime a place changes their menu, certain people assume that it is in direct relation to the dining plan and nothing else. I feel like it is a convienent excuse to support their argument against the dining plan. As if there were no menu changes ever before the dining plan ( current incarnation ) came into existance.

 

[Ms.Mouse]

I am not denying that certain restaurants have scaled down their menu. However, it seems that everytime a place changes their menu, certain people assume that it is in direct relation to the dining plan and nothing else. I feel like it is a convienent excuse to support their argument against the dining plan. As if there were no menu changes ever before the dining plan ( current incarnation ) came into existance.

I agree.... Over the years there have been changes with restaurants and restaurants coming and going and the dining plan was no where around!!!!!

About the dining plan... I would have liked the choice between the dining plan and the type plans that are the Silver/Platinum packages BUT it's not available to us that way now that we are DVC owners so the regular dining plan is the next best thing and we like it just fine!!!

 

[DiszyDean]

You asked for reasons but you seem to dismiss reasonable objections and are looking for guests who have an agenda. You don't want to be flamed but YOU DISMISS ALL THE VALID OBJECTIONS and seem to be looking for class warfare as being the real objection.

Is it a coincidence that CR deleted all the menu items that featured expensive ingredients: lobster, shrimp and scallop entrées at the same time the restaurant went to 1 credit? Is it a coincidence that Oliva's cut back the menu at about the same time DVC guests could purchase dining? Do you believe the posters who were told at Prime Time that the S'mores were cut back in size because MYW guests were ordering one per guest and not one or two per table, as the dessert was sized for? Do cash guests have a valid objection if the portions sizes are being reduced but the menu prices stay the same (or is even increased)? That the slipper dessert was deleted at CRT because too many MYW Dining guests were ordering it?

I've used the dining plan twice, it's a good deal. It's a shame that dining guests aren't willing to accept exclusions and/or surcharges for one or two "signature" entrees per restaurant. Offer lobster to guests who are willing to pay as opposed to dropping it from the menu.

Maybe you misunderstood my post. I never asked for reasons, I was stating my opinion on why people might be so against the dining plan. As far as food selection, I think there are arguments to be made on both sides. As someone who utilizes the dining plan, I would not object to a resteraunt having a list of items that were excluded from the dining plan. I am also saying that you cannot scapegoat the dining plan for every change in every restaurant in WDW.

 

[MinnieGirl33]

2. That old socioeconomic sense of entitlement. Simply put, people who consider themselves of a higher socioeconomic class want to be surrounded by like individuals. They do not want groups of lower-middle class families invading their favorite restauraunts. That sort of thinking does still exist in the world. But, of course, no one will admit that. Instead, it is easier to find excuses such as the inconvienence of ADRs ( a reality whether the dining plan existed or not ), crowds ( whether it be the dining plan or some other promotion, Disney's job is to put people in the parks ), reduction in service ( which has been proven that it is not related at all to the dining plan ) or reduction in offerings at certain restaurants ( all restaurants change offerings in menu selections from time to time ).

If you really read between the lines of the posts of those who feveriously oppose the dining plan, you will find there is one common theme..Only those who can afford to pay OOP to eat at some of these resteraunts should be eating there.

Ok..off my soap box now...

Wow! Can you tell me where you went to mind reading school so I can go too?

1). We purposely try to book when crowds are lower. When free food is announced that throws a monkey wrench into that plan. If the program was announced sooner we would have selected other dates. Could we have sucked up airline fees to change or schedule? Sure. We chose not to & will have to put up with whatever the situation is.

2). While all restaurants change their menus from time to time there is a difference between changing offerings & standardizing those menus. There is very little, if any, variety & creativity shown at TS spots anymore (or, at the very least, much less than was available prior to the DDP).

3). As for service issues, no, there is no way to prove it is a result of the DDP but in my experiences/conversations there are MANY cm's who are not happy about this plan at all. How can that NOT affect quality of service?

4). I am a planaholic. That said, I fondly remember the days of booking my TS at the kiosk in EP at night. Same day ressies now? Not impossible but highly unlikely. Being a planaholic makes you not like surprises like free dining!

5). We have the DDP available to us but choose not to use it as we fare better financially from the DDE. Does that make me an elitist too just because we own DVC & have AP's?

Since you know me so well, which "bucket" does that make me fall in? Am I an elitist or am I sour grapes?

Obsessive planner who does not like changes? Yes. Prejudiced? Not a chance.

It might be nice if, in the future, you refrain from making hostile, blanket statements about any group of people.

 

[DiszyDean]

Wow! Can you tell me where you went to mind reading school so I can go too?

1). We purposely try to book when crowds are lower. When free food is announced that throws a monkey wrench into that plan. If the program was announced sooner we would have selected other dates. Could we have sucked up airline fees to change or schedule? Sure. We chose not to & will have to put up with whatever the situation is.

2). While all restaurants change their menus from time to time there is a difference between changing offerings & standardizing those menus. There is very little, if any, variety & creativity shown at TS spots anymore (or, at the very least, much less than was available prior to the DDP).

3). As for service issues, no, there is no way to prove it is a result of the DDP but in my experiences/conversations there are MANY cm's who are not happy about this plan at all. How can that NOT affect quality of service?

4). I am a planaholic. That said, I fondly remember the days of booking my TS at the kiosk in EP at night. Same day ressies now? Not impossible but highly unlikely. Being a planaholic makes you not like surprises like free dining!

5). We have the DDP available to us but choose not to use it as we fare better financially from the DDE. Does that make me an elitist too just because we own DVC & have AP's?

Since you know me so well, which "bucket" does that make me fall in? Am I an elitist or am I sour grapes?

Obsessive planner who does not like changes? Yes. Prejudiced? Not a chance.

It might be nice if, in the future, you refrain from making hostile, blanket statements about any group of people.

So, who is being hostile here?

As the saying goes, if it does not apply to you, no need to take offense. In fact, I don't think I mentioned DVC members one time. I also said that this was not targetted towards people who feel the dining plan does not work for them which it obviously does not work for you. In most threads I have seen, there has been no noticeable service difference related to the dining plan no matter the conversations you have had with whomever. The proof is in the pudding.

The OP was interested in learning why some people have such a "hatred" of the dining plan and I offered up my opinion. As you are given the same opportunity.

 

[S.Poppins]

Wow, what happened to my fun-loving DIS family? I am sending out some pixie dust and a group hug! What is the point of complaining about something you cannot change? WDW is still the most magical place on earth!

 

[MinnieGirl33]

The OP was interested in learning why people has such a "hatred" of the dining plan and I offered up my opinion. As you are given the same opportunity.

OK, I am confused.

You say everyone is entitled to their opinion yet anybody who offers reasoning that is contrary to your own is lumped together & said to have a "socioeconomic sense of entitlement" & that all their reasons for disliking something is a smokescreen & "excuses" for what "no one will admit".

My interpretation of what you are saying is that the only reason one could possibly not like the DDP is because they think they are better than everybody else (or are sour grapes) & that any opinions re: quality, selection, service & crowds as related to the DDP are ridiculous & not worth discussion.

Am I misunderstanding what you are saying?

 

[Quinn222]

1)Some guests don't like the fact that restaurants have modified the menus so they can make money with the reimbursement rate of MYW Dining.

That's pretty much my issue with it. I don't get the benefit of free dining since I'm a passholder (I'd love to use it!) but I pay the price of poor menus and bad food.

 

[MinnieGirl33]

Wow, what happened to my fun-loving DIS family? I am sending out some pixie dust and a group hug! What is the point of complaining about something you cannot change? WDW is still the most magical place on earth!

Very cute !

You are absolutely right. WDW is the absolute best thing since they put the pocket in pita. Because many of us feel so connected to it we somehow feel the need to say "HEY, wait a minute here WDW suits, this isn't so great, maybe you should re-think things". And you are also right that you can't change it... but we can vent a little can't we?

 

[DiszyDean]

OK, I am confused.

You say everyone is entitled to their opinion yet anybody who offers reasoning that is contrary to your own is lumped together & said to have a "socioeconomic sense of entitlement" & that all their reasons for disliking something is a smokescreen & "excuses" for what "no one will admit".

My interpretation of what you are saying is that the only reason one could possibly not like the DDP is because they think they are better than everybody else (or are sour grapes) & that any opinions re: quality, selection, service & crowds as related to the DDP are ridiculous & not worth discussion.

Am I misunderstanding what you are saying?

Where did I say that anyone that had a different opinion than me is lumped together? I think you are reading into what you think I said vs. what I actually said. I stated that IMO there are the two main buckets where people who say " end the dining plan" sit. Doesn't mean that people that disagree with my opinion are wrong or are in one of those two buckets. Just a difference of opinion.

Opinions by definition are not wrong, just a different outlook on why things might or might not happen. Facts are indisputable.

For example:

Fact: Disney restauraunts have changed some menus.

Opinion : It is directly related to the dining plan.

Opinion: Service has declined because of the dining plan.

Fact: Disney attendance increases whenever special offers are made.

Opinion: If it was not the free dining plan, it would be some other promotion to increase attendance.

 

[MinnieGirl33]

I'm sorry but when someone tries to tell me my reasons are mere "excuses"...

. Instead, it is easier to find excuses such as the inconvienence of ADRs ( a reality whether the dining plan existed or not ), crowds ( whether it be the dining plan or some other promotion, Disney's job is to put people in the parks ), reduction in service ( which has been proven that it is not related at all to the dining plan ) or reduction in offerings at certain restaurants ( all restaurants change offerings in menu selections from time to time ).

...and the real reason is something altogether different & outright mean which brings a persons character into question...

you will find there is one common theme..Only those who can afford to pay OOP to eat at some of these resteraunts should be eating there.

...I feel the need to say I think you are wayyyyyy off base & am offended by your comments. Just because I think the DDP has been bad for WDW on many different levels does not mean I think that I am somehow better because I choose to pay OOP.

Again, if I misinterpreted or read too much into what you were saying then I apologize.

 

[LadyOmega]

DiszyDean,

Just wanted to say that I get what you're trying to get at. Don't know that I necessarily agree with you, but I get it. I think the way you worded some things is sort of sending a different message than what you actually meant. Now lets all have one of these.

 

[bornwiththeears]

It has been mentioned quite a few times that it appears that some restaurants have "scaled down" menu items to compensate for the free dining. Does anyone know if it remains this way when there is no free dining. I have no problem at all with offering the free dining....but when I am paying full price for every item ordered, I certainly don't want a scaled down version.

 

[wirki]

I have a question that might be a little but I am going to ask it anyway. Has the wait time to get seated been longer even with your ADR's? This could be a problem for some people. You have to wait in line to get on an attraction and then waiting for your ADR could take more time out of you park time. For those who only go for 2-4 days that is alot of time waiting.

I have not heard one way or another about the wait time. Just thinking.....

 

[DaisyD]

1)Some guests don't like the fact that restaurants have modified the menus so they can make money with the reimbursement rate of MYW Dining. Lobster being deleted from Coral Reef is an example. This is a general complaint with MYW Dining.

2)Some guests don't like the fact that Disney "oversold" free MYW Dining making it hard to get ADRs, longer waits to be seated and generally overcrowded restaurants.

.

I agree with both of these. It really angers me that the restaurants have kind of dumbed down for this plan. I blame it on the guests that are on the DDP. When reading this board most DDPs are looking for the most expensive food as in lobster. Do to the onslaught of folks looking for free lobster they have now taken it away! At least they could have given the DDPs a $$$ limit on their meals. They have also reduced portion size on many items. I go to WDW quite a bit and have had a chance to talk to many CMs. They all say the more expensive foods and portions are gone because of the DDP. I always go during low season so I don't have to put up with mobs of people. Now with the DDP I have to put up with that and more. I don't mind the paying DDPs as much. It is the free DDP that I am totally against. It seems that when you actually pay for something you act and behave differently then when getting if for free. Flame away.

 

[DaisyD]

I am not denying that certain restaurants have scaled down their menu. However, it seems that everytime a place changes their menu, certain people assume that it is in direct relation to the dining plan and nothing else. I feel like it is a convienent excuse to support their argument against the dining plan. As if there were no menu changes ever before the dining plan ( current incarnation ) came into existance.

I guess all those CMs I spoke too and a couple of food managers too don't know what they are talking about? Sorry, but whether you want to believe it or not, Disney restaurants have went downhill to accomadate the DDP. Unfortunately for those that pay the real prices of the entrees, we are the ones that suffer. Not the ones that get it free and not the ones that pay a pittance of $38.

 

[DeterminedOne]

When Disney offered free dining last year, I read numerous posts about the chaos at the restaurants (crowded, long waits, snippy CM's). So when I booked our trip for September I crossed my fingers that our vacation wouldn't overlap with the free dining promotion. I didn't want to have to deal with the above because we have 18 ADR's planned. Well, too bad because the promotion is going on the entire time we are there. Oh well. We will go with the flow and hopefully won't experience the problems others had last year. It can't be any worse than the brazilian tour groups, and guests have a good time even when they have to deal with that.

 

[S.Poppins]

Wow, Daisy D, that was a little harsh. We enjoy the DDP. And we never looked for the most expensive thing on the menu. It was just nice to have options and not have to think about every dime we spent. I also like being able to book our vacation months in advance w/ the DDP and make payment until we leave. Then we arrive at WDW everything is paid for, no worries! I don't think that makes us DDP users a lower class citizen, IMHO.