General Star Wars Discussion

[mdmost]

Okay, I got caught up.

Tales of the Underworld

Spoiler

This was generally good stuff. I think I liked the Ventress arc better - that was interesting. Her bounty hunter "friends" were neat. I figured I would have liked Ban'es arc more since I like the character so much, but I'm not sure it needed to be told. It was super predictable - not that it was bad or anything, just kinda nothing specail. It stue looked great all around though! Good stuff.

Andor

Spoiler

I have thoughts. There were certainly some high points - the Ghorman massacre was just so well done! That said, Syril was too interesting to die yet. I think it was kind of fitting that he just ends up inconsequential, but I wish it had been in the next arc, just to get more of him. It was powerful that Rylanz, who didn't want to fight, had to. Not enough Luthen in this set! I did like seeing what's-his-name from Rogue One on Yavin. Also, I do agree that some of it felt a little rushed and terse. Nothing too bad, but it's not my favorite arc so far. I would have liekd to see some about Mon's family - are they in any danger now? Maybe they will address that next. There seemed to be no consequence for Wilmon after his exposure to Saw's goofy-juice. That may be a small flaw in the time-skip device. They also sort of dropped Bix using drugs too.

Benjamin Bratt is about as close to Jimmy Smitts as you can get, so if they ahd to recast, I mean, that's what you do.

Also, I did want to chime in about Mon's speech vs. the one in Rebels - which is apparently her second speech or whatever was said after holonet was cut off. Rebels is a different show with a different intent. It's not supposed to be as nuanced and complex - not that Rebels isn't great (peak Star Wars really). I don't think comparisons are apt - they each are what they are, and both quite good at what they do.

My hopes for the last arc - Partisans/Saw on Jedha, maybe with a little glimpse of the temple there that gets raided and a couple of familliar guardians. Dedra can't face-turn. In fact, I hope she lives and get's elevated. K2 being awesome and funny - Let's have LOTS of that!

Spoiler

I think Wilmon took from his time with Saw a need to no longer be afraid of the Empire. He let the same anger in that Saw had hence wanting to kill Dedra in a heavily fortified area. If I had to hazard a guess, I think he'll lose the Ghorman girl to some violence and that will cause him to go the Saw route.

Bix didn't need the drugs because she got her revenge on the doctor. She can finally sleep and found peace on Yavin.

I think Luthen is somewhat superfluous now that the Rebellion is organized. He did sniff out the plot against Mon. His final arc has to be finding out about the Death Star but in doing so puts himself in Dedra's crosshairs. I just hope Kleya makes it out but I think we all know that isn't happening. She'll go down with the ship trying to save him.

I think the speech made a lot of sense when combined with needing to show her escaping. The Rebels speech still works fine because it's her resigning from the Senate and joining the Rebellion. It had to be a public facing act of defiance in front of the other senators. We saw the reaction which was disbelief and saying she was a traitor. That helps set the stage for things in A New Hope when the commander warns Vader that holding Leia is dangerous because it could generate sympathy for the Rebellion in the Senate. But that doesn't matter because the Emperor dissolves the Senate, thus proving Mon's point about the monster coming for them all. I don't know if everyone noticed that Mon takes off her Senate robe before she leaves the building. Sure it helped her hide better but it also showed she knew that phase was over.

I bet we'll get something with Perrin at least. Maybe he's smuggled to Yavin or they cut back to a decimated Chandrilla.

 

[irlandaise]

Both seasons cover the 5 year lead up to Rogue 1

Season 1 was 5 BBY
Season 2 Episodes 1-3 : 4 BBY
Episodes 4-6 : 3 BBY
Episodes 7-9 : 2 BBY
Episodes 9-12 : 1 BBY - 0 BBY (Around the time of Rogue 1)

I appreciate that they've been putting the dates onscreen as the action jumps forward.

And thanks to those who responded to my question about Bail Organa.

 

[BrianL]

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Bix didn't need the drugs because she got her revenge on the doctor. She can finally sleep and found peace on Yavin.

Spoiler

Yeah, but that's not how drugs work if you're addicted. They made it seem like it might be a big deal, but then it just...wasn't. It feels like they just didn't have time for it.

 

[HokieRaven5]

Spoiler

Yeah, but that's not how drugs work if you're addicted. They made it seem like it might be a big deal, but then it just...wasn't. It feels like they just didn't have time for it.

Spoiler

We also don’t know the potency of the drug, how much she was actually taking, how long she was actually using, and the full impact on her other than what we briefly see. A year potentially clean can change a lot for a person who was once using any drugs.

It’s not that farfetched that without her primary trigger for initially using being around anymore that she could find ways to better herself and not be reliant on drugs.

Even Luthen mentions the impact of use as someone who was speaking from experience of previous use. We don’t know when he used or how long it took him to stop but he’s an example of someone who could.

 

[BrianL]

Spoiler

We also don’t know the potency of the drug, how much she was actually taking, how long she was actually using, and the full impact on her other than what we briefly see. A year potentially clean can change a lot for a person who was once using any drugs.

It’s not that farfetched that without her primary trigger for initially using being around anymore that she could find ways to better herself and not be reliant on drugs.

Even Luthen mentions the impact of use as someone who was speaking from experience of previous use. We don’t know when he used or how long it took him to stop but he’s an example of someone who could.

Spoiler

Okay, right, she could get clean, but it's meaningless if the audience doesn't see it. If she were just popping a few Tylenol PMs then it's not a big deal, but they made it seem like it was more than that. If it was nothing, then wy show it at all. They could have just had her in a depression. They set it up - then they just ignored it. That's my issue.

 

[mdmost]

Spoiler

Okay, right, she could get clean, but it's meaningless if the audience doesn't see it. If she were just popping a few Tylenol PMs then it's not a big deal, but they made it seem like it was more than that. If it was nothing, then wy show it at all. They could have just had her in a depression. They set it up - then they just ignored it. That's my issue.

Spoiler

I think Gilroy gives the audience enough credit that they can just accept that she recovered from her trauma through working for Luthen and getting revenge/ensuring others aren't harmed by the doctor. He's not a paint by numbers storyteller. They showed that she turned to drugs to help her sleep and cope with what happened to her. Then Luthen helped her see that getting involved was the only way to push through it all.

Just like how the Rebellion just now exists on Yavin without the audience seeing it get established is something Gilroy is fine with and frankly pretty good at. It's very much like A New Hope. You are dropped into a period of time and are just accepting that things are the way they are and the story begins for that chapter of Star Wars.

 

[BrianL]

Spoiler

I think Gilroy gives the audience enough credit that they can just accept that she recovered from her trauma through working for Luthen and getting revenge/ensuring others aren't harmed by the doctor. He's not a paint by numbers storyteller. They showed that she turned to drugs to help her sleep and cope with what happened to her. Then Luthen helped her see that getting involved was the only way to push through it all.

Just like how the Rebellion just now exists on Yavin without the audience seeing it get established is something Gilroy is fine with and frankly pretty good at. It's very much like A New Hope. You are dropped into a period of time and are just accepting that things are the way they are and the story begins for that chapter of Star Wars.

Spoiler

Certain things I get - we know time is moving forward, so to see Yavin established is one thing, but then they make a big deal about something being nefarious, you might expect that to come up again. It's like when The Simpsons moved to Cypress Creek and the fancy new house did all the chores, so Marge grabs a bottle of wine with the stinger "dun-dun-dun!" Then later, she says, "I've been so bored I find myself drinking a galss of wine ever day. I know doctors say you should drink a glass and a half, but I just can't drink that much." The joke is that they made a big deal about her drinking only to find out that it was nothing. It's unexpected. It's also comedy.

I dunno - I just think that it contributes to things being a little rushed. I mena, really, that's my only criticism of the show, and I know that comes from the structure and condensing what might ahve been 4 seasons into one, but still.

 

[HokieRaven5]

Spoiler

Certain things I get - we know time is moving forward, so to see Yavin established is one thing, but then they make a big deal about something being nefarious, you might expect that to come up again. It's like when The Simpsons moved to Cypress Creek and the fancy new house did all the chores, so Marge grabs a bottle of wine with the stinger "dun-dun-dun!" Then later, she says, "I've been so bored I find myself drinking a galss of wine ever day. I know doctors say you should drink a glass and a half, but I just can't drink that much." The joke is that they made a big deal about her drinking only to find out that it was nothing. It's unexpected. It's also comedy.

I dunno - I just think that it contributes to things being a little rushed. I mena, really, that's my only criticism of the show, and I know that comes from the structure and condensing what might ahve been 4 seasons into one, but still.

Spoiler

Of the rushed things I wouldn’t put her situation as one of them. She showed signs and visions of trauma in episodes 1-3 with her visions, and her near assault, and then turning to a drug as a coping mechanism while being kept to the sideline during 4-6, and then at the end of 6 instead of being left to the side again got to face her trauma head on.

The timeframe there is unknown but the writers are coming at it knowing the audience could grasp an understanding of it

 

[BrianL]

Spoiler

Of the rushed things I wouldn’t put her situation as one of them. She showed signs and visions of trauma in episodes 1-3 with her visions, and her near assault, and then turning to a drug as a coping mechanism while being kept to the sideline during 4-6, and then at the end of 6 instead of being left to the side again got to face her trauma head on.

The timeframe there is unknown but the writers are coming at it knowing the audience could grasp an understanding of it

Spoiler

Yeah, but they could have told that story without the drugs. She could have just been really depressed until she got back into the fight. Adding the drugs gives it another layer that doesn't end up mattering much.
[\SPOILER]

 

[HokieRaven5]

Spoiler

Yeah, but they could have told that story without the drugs. She could have just been really depressed until she got back into the fight. Adding the drugs gives it another layer that doesn't end up mattering much.

Spoiler

Agree to disagree on that one. Luthen gave her a choice, continue on the path with Drugs, or face your trauma.

 

[mdmost]

Spoiler

I think Yavin also is key to her being off the drugs. It's a paradise for Bix. Coruscant was big and the Empire was everywhere so there was always a threat or waiting for Luthen's light to appear. That's gone on Yavin. I doubt she could get the drug she was taking on a remote planet like that. So she went cold turkey at some point but also I don't think she needed the drugs to help her sleep and cope with her trauma. The mission gave her purpose. Killing the doctor brought her some closure. She looked very happy on Yavin until Cassian started to balk at staying in the fight. I'm glad Gilroy doesn't spell it all out for us. I just don't think it's necessary.

 

[Suger Mag]

Spoiler

Yeah, but that's not how drugs work if you're addicted. They made it seem like it might be a big deal, but then it just...wasn't. It feels like they just didn't have time for it.

Spoiler

I dont see issues with Bix not using, especially as she was able to confront her trauma and eliminate the individual responsible.

We do not know that she was full on addicted. It was hinted she was using inappropriately, but that does not mean automatic addiction.

We do not know anything about the drug except it was for sleeping and available at the local store (Cassian bought it for her or at least grabbed a vial and put it on the counter when they were buying food. I thought that it was mints or something but then connected it to the sleeping meds.)

we saw her use the sleeping medication a few times, and only when trying to sleep.

it is a big leap from someone using medication a few times to saying she was full on addicted. Was she using it all the time? no Was she using it at inappropriate times (like when not sleeping) .... not that I saw. She suffered a big trauma, and then another one. She was trying to control her pain and using a method that was not working. She was able to find a way to relieve that pain and move on.

People can self medicate and not be an addict. I dont see that as much different than someone drinking more heavily for a period, realizing their use was inappropriate and then stopping that behavior.

On a different note... was glad to see Melshi show up to Yavin

 

[Suger Mag]

Spoiler

We also don’t know the potency of the drug, how much she was actually taking, how long she was actually using, and the full impact on her other than what we briefly see. A year potentially clean can change a lot for a person who was once using any drugs.

It’s not that farfetched that without her primary trigger for initially using being around anymore that she could find ways to better herself and not be reliant on drugs.

Even Luthen mentions the impact of use as someone who was speaking from experience of previous use. We don’t know when he used or how long it took him to stop but he’s an example of someone who could.

I agree. We dont know much about it. It is telling to me they bought it at essentially the local 7-11... it is not like underground space heroin if you can buy it over the counter with dinner ...

we first saw reference to it when they went to go buy food at the little corner store type place

Cassian took a vial of the medicine during that shopping trip and put it on the counter, so it is available 'over the counter".

In contrast in other shows we have seen illegal drugs being produced and sold illicitly, so to me that you can buy it over the counter easily says a lot about the potency and inherent danger

 

[Suger Mag]

I had to give a shout out to the actress playing Dedra (Denise Gough)

that last scene of her yanking on her tunic , almost felt sorry for her... almost....

 

[BrianL]

Spoiler

I dont see issues with Bix not using, especially as she was able to confront her trauma and eliminate the individual responsible.

We do not know that she was full on addicted. It was hinted she was using inappropriately, but that does not mean automatic addiction.

We do not know anything about the drug except it was for sleeping and available at the local store (Cassian bought it for her or at least grabbed a vial and put it on the counter when they were buying food. I thought that it was mints or something but then connected it to the sleeping meds.)

we saw her use the sleeping medication a few times, and only when trying to sleep.

it is a big leap from someone using medication a few times to saying she was full on addicted. Was she using it all the time? no Was she using it at inappropriate times (like when not sleeping) .... not that I saw. She suffered a big trauma, and then another one. She was trying to control her pain and using a method that was not working. She was able to find a way to relieve that pain and move on.

People can self medicate and not be an addict. I dont see that as much different than someone drinking more heavily for a period, realizing their use was inappropriate and then stopping that behavior.

On a different note... was glad to see Melshi show up to Yavin

Spoiler

But then why the lecture from Luthen? Why the dramatic framing for her using it, if it was so routine. If it was nothing, why even introduce it? The show presented it as an issue, which is the only reason I wish there had been resolution.

The same is true of Wilmon and the Rhydo gas. That should have changed him, but it just didnt. So it was no big deal, but it seemed like one at the time. He was learning something from Saw - but what did he learn?

 

[Suger Mag]

Spoiler

But then why the lecture from Luthen? Why the dramatic framing for her using it, if it was so routine. If it was nothing, why even introduce it? The show presented it as an issue, which is the only reason I wish there had been resolution.

The same is true of Wilmon and the Rhydo gas. That should have changed him, but it just didnt. So it was no big deal, but it seemed like one at the time. He was learning something from Saw - but what did he learn?

Spoiler

I agree she (Bix) had harmful behaviors or a relationship with the sleeping meds, and she had started to hide it from Cassian.... but that does not automatically translate to unsurmountable addiction is all I am saying. We have to assume a certain amount of healing during the time breaks. Like Vel quitting following Ghorman and losing Cinta. We did not see the process whereby she arrived at that significant conclusion, left Luthian and became a high up at Yavin. I look at it like there was an intervention and Bix was able to deal with it following the pretty cathartic therapy of giving Gorshe a taste of his own medicine

 

[Suger Mag]

I was traveling, so we just watched it last night (sat), so please excuse my multiple thoughts/posts as I catch up...

Spoiler

I found it interesting how in the second installment (4, 5and 6) Luthans network was starting to question his leadership, talking about how he does not like attachments, couples etc.... ie distractions from the cause and the work.

And in this latest installment ( 7, 8 and 9 we see them all drifting away, leaving or expressing a desire to leave. And now the major push of the rebellion is shifting from Luthan's guerrilla style of underground power and leadership to a new group/base on Yavin with Mon arriving there to assume the control of the Rebellion into an organized army

 

[BrianL]

Spoiler

I dont see issues with Bix not using, especially as she was able to confront her trauma and eliminate the individual responsible.

We do not know that she was full on addicted. It was hinted she was using inappropriately, but that does not mean automatic addiction.

We do not know anything about the drug except it was for sleeping and available at the local store (Cassian bought it for her or at least grabbed a vial and put it on the counter when they were buying food. I thought that it was mints or something but then connected it to the sleeping meds.)

we saw her use the sleeping medication a few times, and only when trying to sleep.

it is a big leap from someone using medication a few times to saying she was full on addicted. Was she using it all the time? no Was she using it at inappropriate times (like when not sleeping) .... not that I saw. She suffered a big trauma, and then another one. She was trying to control her pain and using a method that was not working. She was able to find a way to relieve that pain and move on.

People can self medicate and not be an addict. I dont see that as much different than someone drinking more heavily for a period, realizing their use was inappropriate and then stopping that behavior.

On a different note... was glad to see Melshi show up to Yavin

Spoiler

I am not saying that it's a big leap or that it doesn't make sense, I am saying that leaving out the resolutions contributes to the narrative feeling just a little bit rushed.

 

[HokieRaven5]

I was traveling, so we just watched it last night (sat), so please excuse my multiple thoughts/posts as I catch up...

Spoiler

I found it interesting how in the second installment (4, 5and 6) Luthans network was starting to question his leadership, talking about how he does not like attachments, couples etc.... ie distractions from the cause and the work.

And in this latest installment ( 7, 8 and 9 we see them all drifting away, leaving or expressing a desire to leave. And now the major push of the rebellion is shifting from Luthan's guerrilla style of underground power and leadership to a new group/base on Yavin with Mon arriving there to assume the control of the Rebellion into an organized army

Spoiler

And you see some of that differentiation with Cassian and Wilmon. Cassian is more ready to join an ordered rebellion and be a leader, where Wilmon is still dedicated to the guerrilla style rebellion fighting that’s more in line with Luthen/Saw.

 

[mdmost]

Took my mom her card and some flowers yesterday to her house. Youngest started looking around in the cabinets and so we got these down. I'm sure there's lovely lead paint on them.