Gay Culture 101

[NHdisneylover]

Don't you dare give up "the keys to the kingdom" just for the asking!
If we let out all the secrets - Next thing you know -
Rush Limbaugh is prancing around in a rainbow tank top and hot pants.

A terrifying thought

Sometimes I just sit here and read and laugh and read and laugh and read and laugh and I have absolutely nothing to add to the conversation....

At least it is only sometimes for you--I do that most of the time

 

[TuckandStuiesMom]

Rush Limbaugh is prancing around in a rainbow tank top and hot pants.

OMIGOSH!!!! THERE'S A MENTAL PICTURE I SURE DIDN'T NEED BURNED INTO MY MIND'S EYE!!!!!!

 

[TuckandStuiesMom]

But were you wearing a flowing gown and singing "People"? You get additional points for style.

Hmmmmm... I thought the proper musical theme was "Send in the Clowns"...

 

[unfreshdiva1]

I just had conversation recently with my guy about what/who makes a gay icon. My thoughts are that we really have Cher, Bette, Madonna, and Cyndi. All strong, creative women. But then he asked, were are the male icons? Good question. Can't really think of a "gay idol" that really ment anything to me growing up in the 80's (although had a crush on George Michael before knowing he was gay, and John Stamos).

 

[AmandaSparks730]

Not to be insulting, but I was wondering this...

What is it with gay men and Madonna, Cher, Bette Midler, and Liza Minelli? A classmate/friend of mine is gay, and he ADORES these three women (not to mention Julia Roberts and Marilyn Monroe). Can anyone explain these "gay icons"?

 

[kingLouiethe1]

Not to be insulting, but I was wondering this...

What is it with gay men and Madonna, Cher, Bette Midler, and Liza Minelli? A classmate/friend of mine is gay, and he ADORES these three women (not to mention Julia Roberts and Marilyn Monroe). Can anyone explain these "gay icons"?

Don't tell my husband who loves Barbra Streisand, but the more he listens to her, the less I can stand her. It might just be pre-wedding stress at this point, but if I hear "people" one more time

Ok, so I'm being a little melodramatic, but seriously, I don't have an affinity for any of the gay icons. I'd rather put on some Abba or Beatles or someone more contemporary like Jack Johnson or the Decemberists to take me to a happy place.

 

[kaffinito]

Maybe the answer lies more in what straight people think is gay culture. Just a thought. I've been wondering the same thing.

There are so many stereotypes floating around that I wonder where the differences between perceived gay culture and real gay culture lies. For example, look at Spamalot and the jokes it has to appeal to a wide audience and the "new" uniform for lesbian women. (Sorry, but I call it a uniform. Lesbians 20 years ago didn't dress like that - or maybe I'm just mis-remembering. )

At any rate, my point is that those ideas of what "gay"means or looks like permeate our collective culture.

 

[DVC~OKW~96]

What "new uniform" for lesbians?

 

[MsLeFever]

I heard both Darrens.

Well, Bewitched was the only show with two Dicks! (Dick York and Dick Sargent!)

 

[SanFranciscan]

Another thread (seriously hijacked -- of course ) got me to thinkin -- what are the real touchstones for contemporary gay culture? Judy Garland? The L Word? 800 thread count aubergine egyptian cotton sheets? (Thank you Wally -- I am TOTALLY jealous!) For that matter, is there even such a thing as gay culture? Just wonderin what everybody thinks...

Oh, this thread is too funny! I had a male classmate who used to say "He's a friend of Dorothy" in a high-pitched voice when he was refering to another gay man. I figured that he meant Judy Garland but still asked "Dorothy from the Wizard of Oz?" Yep, that's who he meant.

There isn't a gay culture the way that there is a national culture or a regional culture, but there is definately gender blending that can feel culture-like. This was addressed in a charming book called "Passion To Preserve" about the preservation of historic buildings that have been renovated as housing or bed and breakfast inns.

If there is a "gay culture," is there a separate one for gay men and for lesbians? I notice that there are certain organizations that have nothing to do with sex where gay men are highly represented and certain other organizations, also having nothing to do with sex, where lesbians are the ones highly represented.

 

[kaffinito]

What "new uniform" for lesbians?

Sorry - should have explained further. When I was younger, lesbians would dress is slightly mannish clothes, but nothing like what I'm seeing today. Some of the lesbians I see, the younger ones, not the older ones, wear mens workshirts, slacks, and have that really short hair. Maybe there were women who dressed like that deliberately years ago that identified themselves as lesbian but I don't remember that particular "uniform" being as popular with lesbians as it seems to me to be today.

I hope that makes sense to you. 20 years ago even you couldn't be as "out" as you can be today. I really do think that being gay is more acceptable today then it was then, but maybe my perception is colored by life experience as well.

 

[2GirlsMama]

Okay, I am straight (married 12 years next month), and I absolutely love the guys on "Queer Eye". I love how they truly try to help straight guys to improve. The tall guy with dark hair is so amazingly cute. I forget his name but he helps with hair and skin. He is so sincere. I just love him.

What does that show say about "gay culture"?

Leah

 

[Lukas87]

Contemporary is definately relative, I suppose. I am 22, and have only been out for about 2 years. Most of the stuff on the first page in this thread is meaningless to me.

My first taste of gay 'culture' was from Queer as Folk.

 

[kyle82]

i can't tolerate extreme gay culture.. there are lots of ways of engaging into them but sometimes super gay people are irritating especially when their extreme behavior is shown in exaggeration..

 

[DVC~OKW~96]

Lukas, Queer As Folk was a good glimpse, but to an extent it was the ideal, eh? Well, I guess that depends upon your point of view! But for the most part the show did a great job of showing the issues, the dynamics of relationships and the extremes in our culture. It was an amazingly brave show with wonderfully courageous actors.

That is not to say there are not extremes of the same ilk in het culture, just in case anyone is getting that bit confused.

Gay culture is historical in nature and by definition. We can take it back to the late 1800's where "Boston Marriages" became the term for two women living together... it's sometimes hard to pick out gay semiotics in history as women living together has always been somewhat more accepted in society than with two men living together.

I don't see any one "uniform" for a given group, within the gay community. Young women tend to dress with great self expression and I really love to see that. Is it because they are gay? Dunno. When you get a group of lesbians together, from all age groups there is every spectrum of dress style covered. That tends to normalize it for me, and not point toward a given uniformity of dress. Well, maybe with the exception of the shoes!

Perception seems to be the main focus for me. As a lesbian in today's society, I am forever feeling out of step with "them, the others." I don't shop in certain places, and won't eat in certain places and won't buy gas from certain places, and don't use certain terms/words/expressions... that sort of thing. Nothing special, nothing unique, except that when I'm interacting in a het setting (as I do every day) I am clearly "the other" with "that seriously weird point of view."

Queer Eye for the Straight Guy ... I'm still ambivalent about that show. I think it did some measure of 'good' in bringing gay men into people's living rooms on a weekly basis, but in so far as representative of the larger culture? I would rather have seen Queer Eye of the Queer Guy for the Queer Woman! LOL! Can you imagine how much fun that would be? Carson telling a lesbian how to dress? Yep! Yep! Yep! I'd be tuning in!

 

[DVC~OKW~96]

Ooops, meant to add this clarification. The 1800's is by no means the "beginning" of anything. It was just a random time frame I chose to mention. The Gay experience goes back much further than that!

 

[2GirlsMama]

Perception seems to be the main focus for me. As a lesbian in today's society, I am forever feeling out of step with "them, the others." I don't shop in certain places, and won't eat in certain places and won't buy gas from certain places, and don't use certain terms/words/expressions... that sort of thing. Nothing special, nothing unique, except that when I'm interacting in a het setting (as I do every day) I am clearly "the other" with "that seriously weird point of view."

It is so interesting that you mention feeling like "the other" with a different point of view. I am the mother of two beautiful, intelligent, healthy, caring daughters. They became our daughters through adoption. So many times during conversations with women (either gay or straight) who have biological children I feel like "the other", like they just don't understand becoming a mother in a way other than through giving birth. There is a "culture" of motherhood and at times it seems to be that the perception is that becoming a mother through adoption is a lesser means of motherhood. It causes me to feel like I have a "seriously weird point of view". I feel such a strong bond/love with my daughters. They are my daughters, not my adopted daughters. Words can not express the depth of my emotions and dedication to them. It makes me crazy when Angelina & Brad's children are described as: their adopted son, and their biological daughter. They are their children. So, in a similar way, I have words and phrases I won't use. There are charitable organizations I won't support because of their opinions concerning orphans.

I wonder if my feelings about becoming a mother through different means might be similiar to feelings about becoming the wife or husband to someone of the same gender. The love and dedication are real, deep feelings to create a forever family. I often wonder why people feel the need to comment on the way my family was formed. I am frequently puzzled by people asking "are they adopted". First why does the questioner care, and second why does it matter? A worse question is "are they yours"? It comes across like they are puppies and we picked them up at the store.

No one ever adopted by accident. It is a thoughtful, time-consuming endeavor with limitless benefits. I wonder if everyone, gay, straight, whatever, feels like "the other" with "a seriously weird point of view" concerning any facet of life which harbors strong emotions.

It is early in the morning here for such a serious post. Your thoughtful comments just got me started thinking.

Wow, I just hi-jacked my first thread on this board! I don't think I did it in the right way. Isn't there something about naked goats I am supposed to mention in order to properly hijack a thread? I will work on it.

 

[kaffinito]

Maybe I just see the uniform because it irks me so much. I mean you can be butch without looking like Archie Bunker all the time for pete's sake!

I do agree about the perspective of the "other". When I have conversations with other moms, I have the perspective of the "other" because they have kids who are considered "normal" by our society whereas I have kids who are ASD and who are not considered "normal". (Personally I wouldn't trade my kids for theirs, they'll have a ton of problems when their kids turn into teens that I won't and don't.)

I'm also an "other" when hanging out or having conversations with other women whether gay or straight. If you're "bi" you have trouble relating to either group. There was the perception by either side that you have to be in one camp or the other, and if you aren't solidly gay or hetero then you must be some sort of a flake. I hope that's changed, because after thirty years I hardly think I'm "confused" about my orientation.

So there are many ways in which all of us will be the "other" in situations where we don't fit the "norm" for that social subset. If you're not a sports nut or a scrapbooking nut then you'll be the "other" when you're in that group as well.

As for the original topic, I still see gay culture as two different things. There is the real gay culture as lived by gay men and women, and the gay culture as perceived by heteros. Two different cultures, two different perceptions with a lot of overlap in some areas.

 

[ConcKahuna]

Not to be insulting, but I was wondering this...

What is it with gay men and Madonna, Cher, Bette Midler, and Liza Minelli? A classmate/friend of mine is gay, and he ADORES these three women (not to mention Julia Roberts and Marilyn Monroe). Can anyone explain these "gay icons"?

The first bunch of women you mentioned all have gay family or professional ties that go back to the start of their careers, and also have very flambouyant styles. Bette. Bette Midler actually got her start performing in gay bath houses, so she has always had a huge gay following. Liza is of course the daughter of Judy Garland, and she has a thing for getting married to gay men

Judy Garland was a big gay icon for a few reasons. Her dad was bisexual, and she had several close relationships with gay men. Her over-the-top style and fights with drug abuse and depression also were things that many gay men can relate to.

One of my personal icons is Cindy Lauper. She has always been a very outspoken supporter of gay rights, and she's always been a bit different herself

 

[wallyb]

One of my personal icons is Cindy Lauper. She has always been a very outspoken supporter of gay rights, and she's always been a bit different herself

And She is so "killer" live.
Go see her if you ever get the chance.
She's so unusual.