FYI ~ Norwalk Virus & Hand Sanitizers

[dwkwootton]

Just saw something on the NBC morning show that knocked me over and will be very helpful for future cruisers. The segment was about germs, disinfectants etc, but the important thing I want to share is this: Hand sanitizers do NOT kill the germs associated with the Norwalk Virus! Heads up to change your precaution strategy!

 

[budwmn]

Thanks for posting the information. No wonder people get sick -- they think they're safe if they've used Purell. Guess nothing beats good old soap and water.

 

[mmouse37]

I had heard that before on these boards when the last big outbreak was.....stick to the regular handwashing....


MJ

 

[zacsmom]

It's kinda funny that they also mentioned that the amount of time spent washing your hands should equal singing"Happy Birthday" twice. My husband thought I was cracking up last night as I was standing at the kitchen singing while washing. He wanted to know who's birthday?? Silly boy

 

[married2grumpy]

I usually have my kids sing 1 verse of Old McDonald while washing there hands. This way they can change the animal each time so it's not as boring. Of course they don't always do this. Maybe it's just my kids but they think running their finger tips under the water is washing their hands. Except when we are out. Then they have see how much soap they can get out of those dispensers and wash for what seems like an eternity (when your food is at the table getting cold!).

Thanks for the info about the Purell. I thought that would be fine but we will be sure to remind them to wash their hands often while onboard.

 

[pjacobi]

Does anyone have a better source than NBC moring show?

It doesn't quite make sense to me.

If an alcohol gel in Purell doesn't kill the virus, how can soap and water be any better? Isn't methanol the active ingrediant in Purell?

-Paul

 

[Hercules10]

I'm more curious about the sanitary hand wipes they have outside the restaurants. Those things have some sort of chlorine (I'm guessing at that , don't quote me) in them.

 

[dwkwootton]

I've been looking on the web for better info on this and haven't found anything worthwhile yet. I walked around fearlessly on my last 3 cruises because my Purell was on me 24/7, so proud that I took the proper precautions. Turns out I'm an idiot that was lucky. I'm too wondering if the wipes DCL hands out are effective and if they are a different type of cleaner. I would love to understand all this! Any microbiologists out there who could shed more light?

 

[Lloyd Dobler]

From the CDC Website:

Can norovirus infections be prevented?

Yes. You can decrease your chance of coming in contact with noroviruses by following these preventive steps:

-Frequently wash your hands, especially after toilet visits and changing diapers and before eating or preparing food.
-Carefully wash fruits and vegetables, and steam oysters before eating them.
-Thoroughly clean and disinfect contaminated surfaces immediately after an episode of illness by using a bleach-based household cleaner.
-Immediately remove and wash clothing or linens that may be contaminated with virus after an episode of illness (use hot water and soap).
-Flush or discard any vomitus and/or stool in the toilet and make sure that the surrounding area is kept clean.

Persons who are infected with norovirus should not prepare food while they have symptoms and for 3 days after they recover from their illness (see food handler information sheet). Food that may have been contaminated by an ill person should be disposed of properly.

There's a full Q&A page at:

http://www.cdc.gov/ncidod/dvrd/revb/gastro/norovirus.htm

 

[CPM]

We run a food and beverage service. In our kitchen are hand sanitizer machines. according to our health dept. the hand sanitizer liquid DOES get rid of the germs. I can't imagine that it doesn't. Maybe they meant after you get sick it doesn't help??

 

[madisonsmom]

Thanks Lloyd Dobler for the link, what a great info sheet!

Good info to know, and when we go in December I will be sure to wash my hands( and DD) VERY frequently! The segment on the Today show had the scientist say to "properly" wash your hands you should wash for at least 30 seconds plus with a heavy lather(demonstrated how medical professionals wash hands).

 

[starwood]

Maybe it's just my kids but they think running their finger tips under the water is washing their hands. Except when we are out. Then they have see how much soap they can get out of those dispensers and wash for what seems like an eternity (when your food is at the table getting cold!).

I thought it was just my son. I told him to wash his hands one morning and his response was "But I washed them yesterday"

 

[cwf1028]

my understanding with hand washing is that the "friction" created by the scrubbing is what is effective in germ elimination. I did see something on TV a few years back with the Purell stuff came out and it tested it versus hand washing for 20 seconds (good scrubbing) and the soap and water was more effective than the gel. The gel kills 99.9% and soap and friction when done correctly is 100% as it does not rely on germ killing "power" but good old fashion scrubbing!

 

[ChrizJen]

posted by cwf1028:
"my understanding with hand washing is that the "friction" created by the scrubbing is what is effective in germ elimination. I did see something on TV a few years back with the Purell stuff came out and it tested it versus hand washing for 20 seconds (good scrubbing) and the soap and water was more effective than the gel. The gel kills 99.9% and soap and friction when done correctly is 100% as it does not rely on germ killing "power" but good old fashion scrubbing!"

I think also it has a lot to do with the water factor. With hand sanitizer, you're not "rinsing" anything off of your hands. It still just sits there. (so it's just "clean dirt".) With old fashioned hand-washing, you're rinsing actual dirt and germs down the drain with the soap.

Edit: This also may (in a roundabout way) explain why the wipes that DCL provides are somewhat effective at helping elimiate the germs. With a wipe, you actually throw a lot of the dirt and germs away on the wipe, so similar to "rinsing", the dirt doesn't just sit on your hands the way it does when you simply apply sanitizing gel and rub it around.
I'm not an expert, so don't quote me...but it makes sense, right?

 

[kikipug]

I Maybe it's just my kids but they think running their finger tips under the water is washing their hands. Except when we are out. Then they have see how much soap they can get out of those dispensers and wash for what seems like an eternity (when your food is at the table getting cold!).

Oh no, it's not just yours... my son thinks that washing the palms of his hands is sufficient... even after digging in the dirt, up to his elbows, black crud under every fingernail...

In terms of Purell... I personally think it should be a last resort, for when soap and water ISN'T available (i.e., portapotties at an outdoor event.)

 

[Greysword]

I have some concerns with the friction theory. If that is all that was needed, then rubbing my hands together without a lubricant, such as soap and water, would be much more effective, since the generated is greater.

 

[jgmklmhem]

I have some concerns with the friction theory. If that is all that was needed, then rubbing my hands together without a lubricant, such as soap and water, would be much more effective, since the generated is greater.

but it is the act of rubbing them together with the rinsing action of the flowing water that removes the germs. Soap helps to disinfect as well...sort of a 3 pronged attack...Friction, Soap, and rinse!!

 

[DancingBear]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6985497/

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6973383/

 

[dwkwootton]

Great links, Dancing Bear. To be real specific as to what I remember from the expert interviewed on this morning's show: Question was - hand sanitizer says its anti-bacterial, is it anti-viral also? Answer was - depends on the type of virus, it is effective for (?) strains, such as the typical cold virus (etc etc) but not effective on the (?) strain of virus, such as Norwark (etc).

 

[wnissen]

I have some concerns with the friction theory. If that is all that was needed, then rubbing my hands together without a lubricant, such as soap and water, would be much more effective, since the generated is greater.

Actually, you're not too far off the mark. Simply rubbing the hands together under water gets about 85% of the benefit of using soap, assuming you do it for an equivalent length of time. The soap is especially good at getting rid of dirt stuck in small crevices in the skin, where you can't rub effectively.

Walt