Frozen ride in Epcot

[Gianna'sPapa]

Full disclosure, I'm not a Frozen movie fan, however the song was ok the first few times I heard it! Now, with a Frozen attraction in the World Showcase of EPCOT? What are they thinking? It's not what my family goes to EPCOT to see. Take your choice, MK for the princess aspect or DHS for the movie aspect. Either of those locations would be better suited for this type of attraction. Another disclosure, I'm not in favor of Pandora in AK. I'm having a hard time connecting the dots between AK and a movie about another fictional world. These decisions by Disney management are blurring the identity of the individual parks. Besides, when I see Avatar on a secondary movie tv channel, I don't believe it's going to stand the test of time of being a great movie! While stunning in the theater, it doesn't transfer to the tv as well as some others.

 

[Mac30188]

I think Fantasy land was the right location for Disney princesses, and at the same time I understand the logistics/business factors that pushed against that location. I do find it interesting that everyone objects to Frozen at Epcot but no one complains about Pandora in AK. They both seem like a similar decisions to me.

 

[Mac30188]

lol, right on queue!

 

[rteetz]

I think Fantasy land was the right location for Disney princesses, and at the same time I understand the logistics/business factors that pushed against that location. I do find it interesting that everyone objects to Frozen at Epcot but no one complains about Pandora in AK. They both seem like a similar decisions to me.

Because Pandora makes the best sense in AK.

 

[Mac30188]

Because Pandora makes the best sense in AK.

I am not sure I agree on that. As was referenced in previous post. There is nothing real about Pandora. In no way does it focus on "animals", and no animals in Pandora are real. You could use that same argument to add a Rancor pit or Dragonslayer ride to AK. If you remove the logistics, it fits more in Hollywood Studios than AK. IMHO, Pandora is actually less about animals than Frozen is about Norway.

 

[rteetz]

I am not sure I agree on that. As was referenced in previous post. There is nothing real about Pandora. In no way does it focus on "animals", and no animals in Pandora are real. You could use that same argument to add a Rancor pit or Dragonslayer ride to AK. If you remove the logistics, it fits more in Hollywood Studios than AK. IMHO, Pandora is actually less about animals than Frozen is about Norway.

Avatar has a conservation message. AK was always supposed to have a "fantasy" area originally called beastly kingdom. This fits that realm. AK also has a huge conservation message along with it. I think it really fits best in AK.

 

[ColoradoDreamin]

Avatar has a conservation message. AK was always supposed to have a "fantasy" area originally called beastly kingdom. This fits that realm. AK also has a huge conservation message along with it. I think it really fits best in AK.

I agree with your thought. It also seems to now fit the appearance as well, but your reasoning hits it on the head.

 

[nilla]

Besides, when I see Avatar on a secondary movie tv channel, I don't believe it's going to stand the test of time of being a great movie! While stunning in the theater, it doesn't transfer to the tv as well as some others.

Not sure that matters. Splash Mountain is an awesome ride, but how many people have seen "Song of the South"? And has anyone seen "Mission to Mars" or "Dinosaur"? The attractions can stand on their own.

I still haven't seen Avatar, and don't have much interest in it. However, the artist renditions of what Pandora at AK will be like look amazing. I'll judge it separately from the film.

 

[Eoghann]

I suppose I'd be more bothered about Frozen in Norway if I thought that Epcot was an accurate representation of countries around the world. But based on the ones I know, it isn't it's just a bunch of stereotypes amongst some very nice architecture. Which is fine, it's a theme park and its fun, but it doesn't make it culture that needs protecting.

 

[ColoradoDreamin]

Hard to put a whole country in one area...but I know some people from some of those countries, and they have always said positive things about what Disney has done with them.

 

[Eoghann]

Well now you know someone from one of those countries who doesn't.

 

[minnie mum]

Well now you know someone from one of those countries who doesn't.

From which of the countries represented in WS are you a resident, and why do you object to the way your country's Pavilion is showcased?

 

[adam.adbe]

From which of the countries represented in WS are you a resident, and why do you object to the way your country's Pavilion is showcased?

I didn't see him say he objected, just that the representation is a themed stereotype. Which is fine; it's a theme park. No matter how well themed Morocco is, and no matter how immersive I might find the Moroccan market area, it does not in any way represent actually being in Morocco in a busy market area.

The UK pavilion even makes me a little homesick at times, but it's not the UK. If I focus just right, I *know* that street. It really could be any tourist trap village in the UK, but that's kind of the point. It's a decent facsimile of a place that itself is little more than a modern idealized tourist trap overlay on what was once an actual village somewhere.

And I say this as someone who fell in love with Disney World because of the World Showcase.

 

[DDLand]

Avatar has a conservation message. AK was always supposed to have a "fantasy" area originally called beastly kingdom. This fits that realm. AK also has a huge conservation message along with it. I think it really fits best in AK.

It should've gone into DHS like they originally planned. It would've worked as one more land in the DHS lineup. They'd have Pixar properties, Lucasfilm, and Lightstorm. Let the park that has no coherent theme besides "Movies are awesome!!!" have that property. Leave the real messages and stories to DAK. Too late now though. I just think defending it is like saying Splash Mountain is in the perfect spot, Frozen in Norway works, and Epcot should get more Nemo.

 

[rteetz]

It should've gone into DHS like they originally planned. It would've worked as one more land in the DHS lineup. They'd have Pixar properties, Lucasfilm, and Lightstorm. Let the park that has no coherent theme besides "Movies are awesome!!!" have that property. Leave the real messages and stories to DAK. Too late now though. I just think defending it is like saying Splash Mountain is in the perfect spot, Frozen in Norway works, and Epcot should get more Nemo.

I disagree. What if beastly kingdom was built that's not a real story or message.

I like the way DHS is going without avatar. And we know they are likely not going to stop with Star Wars and toy story.

Where else would you put Splash?

 

[Eoghann]

From which of the countries represented in WS are you a resident, and why do you object to the way your country's Pavilion is showcased?

I'm from the UK have lived in the US for the last 15 years and regularly vacationed in France while growing up. All three of those countries are represented in a highly stereotyped way in the world showcase and I'd be very surprised if that wasn't the case for the others too.

I didn't say and in fact don't object to the way they are showcased, but they aren't representative of those countries beyond the most shallow level. The buildings are lovely, the food is nice, the entertainment pleasant. It's great stuff for a theme park, it's not a useful source of historical or cultural information.

 

[DDLand]

I disagree. What if beastly kingdom was built that's not a real story or message.

I like the way DHS is going without avatar. And we know they are likely not going to stop with Star Wars and toy story.

Where else would you put Splash?

As much as we like to think we know what Beastly Kingdom was, enjoy talking about it, and dreaming about what it could've been, we actually don't know a ton. We have some concept art, brief ride descriptions, and stories about how awesome it would've been. That's really it.

I can't say for sure that Beastly Kingdom was going to stand for something. Have a deep message. Inspire people to be better.

I just know Joe Rohde's work, DAK on opening, and many of the attractions added since. Those attractions tell me that each attraction would've had a theme that supported DAK's primary theme. Getting back to nature. I also think they'd support the secondary themes that there's always a better way to save wildlife and habitats, nature is stronger then you think, and animals are unique and special and are worthy of saving.

Trying to justify Avatar with Beastly Kingdom isn't worthwhile because we don't know what Beastly Kingdom was or was going to be. Something tells me that it would've been along the lines of Everest or Kilimanjaro.

DHS is going to be great. It's also incoherent.

Splash... Well anywhere that didn't completely break the thoughtful design running from Liberty Square towards Frontierland.

 

[Mac30188]

I disagree. What if beastly kingdom was built that's not a real story or message.

I like the way DHS is going without avatar. And we know they are likely not going to stop with Star Wars and toy story.

Agree. While I still am not sure I agree on the "where it belongs" argument (although the conservation does at least give a justification), the logistics and business case is just too strong. AK needs Avatar. Even though Frozen/Pandora are stretches, they are close enough that when you add the logistics and business factors, they are great moves. I am very excited how Avatar will help solidify AK is a full day park and not a half day park.

 

[rteetz]

Agree. While I still am not sure I agree on the "where it belongs" argument (although the conservation does at least give a justification), the logistics and business case is just too strong. AK needs Avatar. Even though Frozen/Pandora are stretches, they are close enough that when you add the logistics and business factors, they are great moves. I am very excited how Avatar will help solidify AK is a full day park and not a half day park.

Exactly we would likely still have camp Minnie Mickey otherwise.

 

[DDLand]

Exactly we would likely still have camp Minnie Mickey otherwise.

We know at points they were thinking about porting Tokyo Disney Sea Attractions; (not that they would be much better) that and Everest show other options could've been taken. Instead they took an IP that has no place in DAK and shoehorned it in.

What scares me is Epcot is a totally lost cause. Totally ruined and unfocused. Don't tell some people that, but it's the truth.

DAK is our generation's Epcot. It thankfully has a creative lead who will monitor and keep it on track to a limit. If an executive wants something in, it's going in.

Where does it end? What if they want a Good Dinosaur Land? What if they want to overhaul Kilimanjaro into a Lion King tie in? What if Everest becomes a Monster's Inc. attraction?

Sound ridiculous? Yeah. I'm sure it does. I wonder what a 1980s guests would've thought if they found out the Living Seas would be inhabited by a talking Clown Fish and his friends. I wonder what a 1980s guests would think if they heard that Journey into Imagination would relaunch later as a worse attraction. I wonder what a guest to Norway would've thought if they heard a strangely intelligent Reindeer and a talking Snowman would replace the anchor attraction.

Ridiculous right?

Well that's reality now. I appreciate DAK. I'm going to call out additions that don't fit and even the creater was unhappy working with according to Articos on WDWmagic.

That's not to say I'm not excited for the visually stunning and beautiful World of Pandora. Just like I don't feel less excited about a trip to Splash Mountain.

I will lament that they went this direction. Just like I wish Splash Mountain was somewhere better.