Frommer article full of WDW misinformation

[wen8jr]

I think I'll just stick with reading "sound" advice from my DIS friends who do know the facts.

BTW - I'm getting POR for $105.00 a night with the Fall promo, dining for $39 per day per person and 5 days of tickets for $650.00. Costing a total of $2,000.00. Tell me, where can I stay cheaper as comfortably or eat cheaper without packing our own sandwiches, eating hot dogs all day or going to town for a $5 combo meal at McD? Hotels on our trip down I75 will cost at least as much, TS food the same.

Other hotels near attractions also cost just as much, if not more. For example 1 night and 2 days in OH for a family of three: 1 day at the Zoo and one day at Kings Island, with that one night hotel stay at a Ramada Limited cost us approx. $450.00. My 5 night 6 day trip at Disney, including food will cost me $2,000.00. This is not including gas or extra purchases for either trip. Why does Disney cost more? Because we are choosing to go for more than one night. I feel that a Disney vacation can be very reasonable unless you splurg and go all out. And if you can afford it, I say go for it. If you need to spend less there are cheaper options onsite. To each their own.

Anything you do can be expensive, with a little sound advice and good planning it can be a little cheaper than just jumping right in without research. We've even planned our WDW vacation cheap enough to splurg in St. Augustine for a few days at $300 per night. What! And all this without Ms. Frommer's help!!!!

While we could stay off site in a hotel that might be $10 cheaper per night and go to Universal Studios and Sea World instead, we want to go to WDW despite Ms. Frommers incorrectly stated advice. :rolleyes

Anyone with issues about vacationing at WDW can always go somewhere else on vacation and quit lurking on the Disney forums. Somehow it just seems very weird to be on here arguing that Disney isn't that great.

 

[DanMedix]

We at the DIS know what's real and what's not at WDW.


All others....

 

[surfergrl31]

The fact that she is still clueless is what bothers me the most and is not wanting to admit that she is wrong. I guess reading fine print, which I don't remember the print being fine about occupancy rules, was something she left to an assistant. The dinning plan still makes me laugh because her "apology" has the information wrong again. If this many people went out of their way to point out mistakes, I would research all points before having a rebuttal.

"That being said, I do think many of Disney's offerings are overpriced. At
$45/day, per person, I don't think the meal plan is a good value especially
when you consider the price of food outside the parks. There are also
restrictions on the eating plan that I find onerous: everyone in the room
must buy one, not every eatery on property is included, and it’s good for
one counterservice and one sitdown meal a day meaning that you have to spend a good amount of time making and keeping reservations (something a
lot of visitors don't enjoy doing). You also can't customize it so that you
pay less if you leave early on your last day at Disney, which means many
guests end up paying more than they have to."

Even with tax the dp isn't $45 a day, for that matter it isn't calculated per a day. So their goes her argument about if a guests leaves early on the last day and cannot use their credits because they have probably used them all. How many resturants are actually not on the plan? I think most of them are in DTD and the Swan & Dolphin. The reservations will have to be made anyway if you really want to eat at a certain time and depending on what time of year you are going. I had no problem switching reservations once I was there and realized they didn't work. If this is how well they research their articles, I will no longer be looking at advice from frommers.

 

[mking624]

We at the DIS know what's real and what's not at WDW.


All others....

LOVE that image!

 

[WillCAD]

Just because my opinion differs from yours doesn't mean we aren't discussing things. I'm not the person throwing out wild accusations like "criminally negligent" or blowing my stack over a $2.50 difference in the price of a hot dog as opposed to a hot dog combo.

Okay, okay, I'll admit that my use of the term "criminally negligent," which seems to have struck a major chord with you, was inacurate and inappropriate. But then you'll have to admit that:

"with theme park hot dog meals costing a whopping $7 and a one-day entry ticket at Disney World soaring to $71 per adult (defined as age 10 and above—tell that to the DMV)."

is completely misleading, because she completely fails to mention that per day prices drop sharply as you buy longer tickets, and since there are 4 theme parks, you need a minimum of 4 days to see them all.

And:

"They're cinderblock motels, packed with loud school groups for much of the year, that are located farther from the Disney attractions than most of the (often nicer) motels that are clustered around the gates of Disney World."

Is completely WRONG - the Disney Value resorts are demonstrably NOT "packed with loud school groups for much of the year," though some of them do have tour groups or PW or cheer groups at SOME times.

And I dare you to find me ANY non-Disney hotel (or motel), other than those on Hotel Plaza Blvd or the Swan & Dolphin, that is closer to the parks than Pop or the All-Stars.

"Epcot won't have enough to interest your younger kids."

Horse-hockey. Epcot has all sorts of kid-friendly stuff, although admittedly it's not all princesses and muppets and Mr. Sanderz. Some kids don't like Epcot, but some do; to issue such a blanket statement, dismissing the entire park out of hand, is ridiculous to anyone who has been to Epcot.

"Be wary of "upgrading" your passes, as that's not the best value"

Say what? Since when is upgrading your pass from 4 days to 5, getting another full day at a theme park for $3 not the best value!? (NOTE: 4-day base ticket $225.78, 5-day base ticket $228.98, difference $3.20).

"You probably won't get to the water park,"

Says who? Plenty of folks with younger kids hit the water parks.

" and Disney's eating plan is inconvenient (only certain properties are included, some of which require reservations)."

Again, simply WRONG. The Dining Plan includes almost every restaurant and eatery on WDW property (some require two credits instead of one), and ALL of them require reservations, unless you want to wait a long time as a walk-up.

"Then, do one day at SeaWorld (an unmissable, exuberantly fun and educational Orlando attraction)"

SeaWorld is unmissable and exhuberantly fun for a 5-year old and a 2-year old, but Epcot has nothing to interest them? Well, that's a matter of opinion, but my opinion is that this a whacked opinion.

" and, if your older one's into action heroes, one day at Universal Studios."

Er, the action heroes are not at Universal Studios, they are next door at Islands of Adventure.

Now, as far as the whole on-site vs. off-site thing, I've never been shy about staying off-site when I get better bargains than on-site (which, unfortunately, is quite often). But I'll be on-site for MouseFest, staying at the fabulous All-Star Cinderblock Movies resort for $59 a night.

And renting a car - I'm all over that. I always rent a car at WDW; in my 17 years of visiting, I've only done two trips without wheels and hated every minute of it.

Visiting Universal or SeaWorld? One of my number-one reccomendations to anyone planning a trip to Orlando is that the world doesn't end at the Disney property line - get the heck out and try other stuff, because there's plenty of great stuff out there that you'll miss if you limit yourself to WDW.

So no, I don't disagree with everything she wrote, but the stuff she got wrong completely destroys her credibility as a professional journalist in my eyes.

By the way - ARE you actually Pauline's Big Daddy, Aurthur Frommer? Cause if you are, man, I really dug your appearance in "Eurotrip." Way cool, bro!

 

[mking624]

I just have to point out how amusing I found it that she criticizes the expense of a WDW ticket (and fails to mention that adding an extra day is a merely few dollar difference), but advocates spending a day at SeaWorld and Universal.
One day ticket for SeaWorld for an out of state visitor:
Adult - $64.95
Child - $53.95

Universal Studios one day ticket:
Adult - $77 (more than a one day ticket to a park at WDW)
Child - $67 (barely less than a one day ticket to a park at WDW)
If you wait until you get to the gate, those prices increase as follows:
Adult - $82.95
Child - $72.95
BOTH of those prices are more expensive than a one day ticket to a WDW park. And yet she complains about the WDW one day ticket price as "soaring"...so instead of trying to save them money when the family is on a budget, she advocates spending more money. I think a $3 cost to add an extra day at WDW is far cheaper than spending a few hundred dollars extra at other parks. Now of course it's up to the travelers if they want to visit those other parks (and more power to them if they do), but the point here is that Frommer is being misleading about what is more and less expensive.

And while she complains about WDW's policy on the ages of "adults", what she fails to realize is that by 10 years old, the average child is tall enough to ride just about all the rides and therefore starts paying the higher cost since he or she now has the ability to do much more. Whether or not that child chooses to go on them is an entirely different matter. And Ms. Frommer failed to realize that both SeaWorld AND Universal also have their adult prices beginning at age 10 years old.

 

[amyhughes]

As far as journalistic integrity, I worry about the misinformation given. Yes, there was an edit, but alas the damage was done. The information was not checked and rechecked (I am in the habit as are many in journalism of sending articles to our sources for verification and also if they dispute any of the information BEFORE going to print!), and also she has stated that SHE has gone to Disney but is giving advice for another person taking her CHILDREN. So if you haven't actually taken your own children to WDW, not DLR, how would you have practical advice for this much larger resort? Also, as has been stated above prices, a negative slant, etc. does leave the reader with a deffinite tinge on their pallette. I agree some advice translates from Coast to Coast but regarding an age groups preference of one park over another, WOULDN'T IT BE BETTER TO HAVE HAD THAT EXPERIENCE WITH YOUR OWN CHILDREN OR CHILDREN IN YOUR TRAVEL PARTY BEFORE MAKING THAT LEAP?

In all, I did rate it based on the fact that she did not know her subject matter fully, did not take the time to investigate facts regarding lodging, air fare, dining, or even if children ENJOY one of the 4 MAJOR parks, Epcot (which as has been stated many do). She also is dealing in GENERALIZATIONS galore! She may have walked through Epcot with a group of adults and seen a few children crying, or misbehaving or looking bored and BOOM! "STOP THE PRESSES! KIDS HATE EPCOT!" My kids, as with many others!, love anything where they can get hands on and learn in an interactive way. I think it is time to shed the monicre that children get bored if they are asked to LEARN. I find that very thought ignorant.


In all, I hope there are those out there who do their homework beyond her book, CANNOT believe she endorses gate crashing resort pools!
Um, Hello, SECURITY! Get the Frommers out of our pool! They are staying offsite!
We did stay offsite this past time and I NEVER WILL AGAIN! Too much of headache and I felt we missed out on an integral experience of the vacation which is RELAXATION! I want to lose my car keys on vacation and not see them until check out!

And the deal with the food! COME ON! If the 4 of us eat at Outback it costs between 60-70 bucks. When we ate at The Grand Floridian it was 72. A whole whopping $12 more and we got to meet Cinderella to boot. Sometimes in life you pinch pennies, I agree. But sometimes you spend 10 bucks more for the experience.

Instead of branding her book, we should look for those lost in the parks and ask "Did you read Frommer's? Talk to me it will be alright!"

 

[suzimar57]

sad thing is, people who don't know any better (none of us!) will read that article and believe the misinformation it contains

 

[TommyTutone]

I just have to point out how amusing I found it that she criticizes the expense of a WDW ticket (and fails to mention that adding an extra day is a merely few dollar difference), but advocates spending a day at SeaWorld and Universal.
One day ticket for SeaWorld for an out of state visitor:
Adult - $64.95
Child - $53.95

Universal Studios one day ticket:
Adult - $77 (more than a one day ticket to a park at WDW)
Child - $67 (barely less than a one day ticket to a park at WDW)
If you wait until you get to the gate, those prices increase as follows:
Adult - $82.95
Child - $72.95
BOTH of those prices are more expensive than a one day ticket to a WDW park. And yet she complains about the WDW one day ticket price as "soaring"...so instead of trying to save them money when the family is on a budget, she advocates spending more money. I think a $3 cost to add an extra day at WDW is far cheaper than spending a few hundred dollars extra at other parks. Now of course it's up to the travelers if they want to visit those other parks (and more power to them if they do), but the point here is that Frommer is being misleading about what is more and less expensive.

I am not defending Frommer by any means, but if you are going to throw numbers out there, you should do so accurately. For anyone smart enough to look online (not knocking you but I imagine there are visitors to UO who don't know better), you can get a 7-day pass, equivalent to a Park Hopper since you can go back and forth between parks, for UO for $86. The Disney 7-day park hopper price, from their website, is $264, which can probably be had cheaper elsewhere, but not $180 cheaper.

Lastly, for $85, you can get two days at Seaworld, not that I know of anyone who would need two, but that option is there. How does that compare to Disney's prices?

 

[bookgirl2632]

I work at a Barnes & Noble. I regularly check out any new Disney guidebooks that come out. It's good to get different perspectives on the parks and resorts, right? Anyway, a few months ago, I was pleased to see that a new one was in, one by Pauline Frommer. I figured with such a respected name in travel it would have to be good.

Wrong! I didn't read the whole thing, but after just the first few chapters, I could see that this woman was horribly biased against Disney. This bias colored all aspects of her writing. What we are left with in her book is a disservice to anyone looking to travel to Disney. Yes, we on the Dis, know better. But there are a lot of people who go without the benefit of this website. They rely on guidebooks. So if one were to pick hers up, they'd be terribly misinformed.

The good news is that her book has not sold well. And when I am asked advice or if I see someone comparing Disney guidebooks, I try to steer them in the right direction. Personally, I like the Unofficial Guide, the Passporter, and Birnbaum's. I always point those out to customers. I also let them know about the Dis and Allears. People deserve to be well-informed about such a magical vacation.

 

[Jason71]

I don't consider myself a Kool-Aid drinker, and to be honest, I tend to agree with her comments re: the All-Stars (concrete box motels inconvenient to the parks). But her alternative is...the Roadway Inn on I-Drive??? I can think of at least a dozen off-site motels that are nicer and a lot more convenient just off the tip of my head. I'd be suspicious if I thought the Roadway Inn could afford to pay kickbacks...

Also, anyone who prefers Sea World to all the Disney and Universal parks is a stick-in-the-mud. Just totally incapable of having fun.

 

[grimley1968]

I am not defending Frommer by any means, but if you are going to throw numbers out there, you should do so accurately. For anyone smart enough to look online (not knocking you but I imagine there are visitors to UO who don't know better), you can get a 7-day pass, equivalent to a Park Hopper since you can go back and forth between parks, for UO for $86. The Disney 7-day park hopper price, from their website, is $264, which can probably be had cheaper elsewhere, but not $180 cheaper.

Lastly, for $85, you can get two days at Seaworld, not that I know of anyone who would need two, but that option is there. How does that compare to Disney's prices?

Maybe this is all true, but what does this have to do with the Frommer's article/book?

We're talking about a so-called travel professional who is distorting facts and sometimes just making things up to support her unfounded and biased conclusions about WDW.

The person you quoted was merely pointing out one of the many inaccuracies in the article. If you are on Disney property already, and already have park tickets, it IS far less expensive to add one day to your WDW tickets than to go elsewhere for one day, such as Universal or Seaworld.

Yes, the 7-day total prices may be cheaper at Universal, but it's not really fair to compare apples to oranges here. Universal has 2 parks, and Disney has 4 parks. When Universal has 4 parks, an equivalent number of rides, equivalent proportion of thrill-to-family rides, equivalent number of show attractions, equivalent number and variety of restaurants, etc. as Disney, let's see just how cheap Universal stays. I actually hope they accomplish having an equal-sized presence as WDW someday, since I'd love to have more options for my vacation dollar, but it's a plain fact that they haven't yet. Apples versus oranges.

 

[mking624]

I am not defending Frommer by any means, but if you are going to throw numbers out there, you should do so accurately. For anyone smart enough to look online (not knocking you but I imagine there are visitors to UO who don't know better), you can get a 7-day pass, equivalent to a Park Hopper since you can go back and forth between parks, for UO for $86. The Disney 7-day park hopper price, from their website, is $264, which can probably be had cheaper elsewhere, but not $180 cheaper.

Lastly, for $85, you can get two days at Seaworld, not that I know of anyone who would need two, but that option is there. How does that compare to Disney's prices?

Um, yes, I WAS smart enough to look online, I got the prices directly from their websites. And I gave the prices I did because Frommer mentioned spending one day there. The family was interested in spending the majority of her trip at Disney, which is pretty clear since that's the only place she asked about. And why spend the extra money for two days at SeaWorld or two days at UO/IOA when you only need one? Just to spend it? Doesn't exactly seem like a smart piece of advice for a family on a budget...especially when they're already being told to spend one day each at both places, which would be additional money to what they're already paying at WDW. In this case, yes it would be more expensive to go that route. She advocates doing a three day base ticket...which is $203 (for one adult ticket). Then she advises to spend a day at SeaWorld and UO. Let's assume she's going to buy the advance purchase price at SeaWorld. That would be about $54, bringing the total to $257. Then she says to possibly spend a day at UO...and let's assume she'll ONLY go to UO and not IOA (since I want to check the lowest price, even if it's only by a few dollars). That's $67. Bringing the total to $324. At that price, she could upgrade that three day base ticket to a 10 day park hopper with water parks and more...since the cost for that is $320. And this is assuming that the family would not be doing the two park/one day ticket for UO/IOA (which is only a few dollar difference, in my previous post I did quote the two park/one day ticket since I felt that was the best value) and would be purchasing a ticket in advance to SeaWorld (which would save $11 off the adult ticket only...it's the same price for a child's ticket) and to UO. And this is also assuming that they would not be doing a two day option at SeaWorld or a 7 day pass for UO...which of course would add additional money. Now I'm not saying the family should ditch the idea of going to UO or SeaWorld...but I believe Frommer is misleading this family in terms of the cost.

Here are screen shots of the SeaWorld and Universal websites since you think I'm just inaccurately throwing numbers around and I'll even throw up the Disney one for the 10 day ticket so you know I'm not throwing that number around either....

SeaWorld Screen Shot:

Universal Orlando Screen Shot:

WDW Screen Shot:

 

[agnes!]

...And:

"Then, do one day at SeaWorld (an unmissable, exuberantly fun and educational Orlando attraction)"

SeaWorld is unmissable and exhuberantly fun for a 5-year old and a 2-year old, but Epcot has nothing to interest them? Well, that's a matter of opinion, but my opinion is that this a whacked opinion.

The positive slant of those words really jumped out at me...unmissable exuberantly fun educational

Did the article's author say anything remotely as positive about Walt Disney World?...which, after all, is the subject the letter-writer actually wanted information about!!!

agnes!

 

[mking624]

The good news is that her book has not sold well. And when I am asked advice or if I see someone comparing Disney guidebooks, I try to steer them in the right direction. Personally, I like the Unofficial Guide, the Passporter, and Birnbaum's. I always point those out to customers. I also let them know about the Dis and Allears. People deserve to be well-informed about such a magical vacation.

I work at The Disney Store and regularly get asked about guidebooks...those are the three I recommend as well (including one other one). I try to learn a little about how they prefer to tour or what their interests are, etc, then I recommend them like this:
Birnbaums: great for simple details to flip through, especially if you prefer to stick with the element of surprise (which some of my guests do)...includes coupons in the back.
Passporter & UG: great detail and information...Passporter is great if you're a scrapbooker or have kids who like to hangs onto things like tickets and such!
Complete Guide to WDW: Loaded with hundreds of stunning visuals and thorough detail (with the exception of the resorts)

Depending on what I'm learning about the person, I'll recommend a particular guide first...such as if I'm working with a guest who wants to know exactly how every ride/attraction goes from start to finish and is more visually stimulated, I'll recommend the Complete Guide, for example (there are some inaccuracies, but small ones...such as the author said you couldn't do a WDW return at a Disney Store, which is incorrect, but that's about how big it goes). But they always walk away knowing the other options as well...so they can look through all of them and choose the best one for them.

 

[grimley1968]

Um, yes, I WAS smart enough to look online, I got the prices directly from their websites. And I gave the prices I did because Frommer mentioned spending one day there. The family was interested in spending the majority of her trip at Disney, which is pretty clear since that's the only place she asked about. And why spend the extra money for two days at SeaWorld or two days at UO/IOA when you only need one? Just to spend it? Doesn't exactly seem like a smart piece of advice for a family on a budget...especially when they're already being told to spend one day each at both places, which would be additional money to what they're already paying at WDW. In this case, yes it would be more expensive to go that route. She advocates doing a three day base ticket...which is $203 (for one adult ticket). Then she advises to spend a day at SeaWorld and UO. Let's assume she's going to buy the advance purchase price at SeaWorld. That would be about $54, bringing the total to $257. Then she says to possibly spend a day at UO...and let's assume she'll ONLY go to UO and not IOA (since I want to check the lowest price, even if it's only by a few dollars). That's $67. Bringing the total to $324. At that price, she could upgrade that three day base ticket to a 10 day park hopper with water parks and more...since the cost for that is $320. And this is assuming that the family would not be doing the two park/one day ticket for UO/IOA (which is only a few dollar difference, in my previous post I did quote the two park/one day ticket since I felt that was the best value) and would be purchasing a ticket in advance to SeaWorld (which would save $11 off the adult ticket only...it's the same price for a child's ticket) and to UO. And this is also assuming that they would not be doing a two day option at SeaWorld or a 7 day pass for UO...which of course would add additional money. Now I'm not saying the family should ditch the idea of going to UO or SeaWorld...but I believe Frommer is misleading this family in terms of the cost.

Here are screen shots of the SeaWorld and Universal websites since you think I'm just inaccurately throwing numbers around and I'll even throw up the Disney one for the 10 day ticket so you know I'm not throwing that number around either....

SeaWorld Screen Shot:

Universal Orlando Screen Shot:

WDW Screen Shot:

Ummm, well, ummm.

What she said!



You have to admit: it's tough to argue with the above, especially with screenshot proof of it all.

How long did it take this poster, on her own time, to come up with those screenshots and fact-based cost comparison analysis? Probably far less time than it took Ms. Frommer to write the fiction she came up with. It's amazing how just a little bit of thorough research like the above can end up saving time, versus all the time people will end up wasting reading the previously respected Frommer's articles/books.

 

[The Big Daddy]

By the way - ARE you actually Pauline's Big Daddy, Aurthur Frommer? Cause if you are, man, I really dug your appearance in "Eurotrip." Way cool, bro!

No unfortunately I can't claim any movie appearances at this point, unless you count the family home videos we shoot while in Disneyworld, and even most of the family gets bored watching family home movies.

 

[Another Voice]

The sheer amount of hate in this thread is fascinating.

 

[Deb & Bill]

The sheer amount of hate in this thread is fascinating.

You are kidding, correct? I don't read hate, I read more disgust with a supposedly reputable author (actually she is NOT the author of her book on WDW and Orlando; another author actually gets the credit for writing the book) who skews the info to make her sound so much better.

 

[YoHo]

This thread is giving me a headache.


The day I feel the need to email a tarvel writer because they were somewhat inaccurate about my favorite Multi-Billion Dollar international media conglomerate's overpriced multibillion dollar Themeparks that have been in constant decline and have changed from a fundimental part of our national identity to a laughing stock akin to crazy cat ladies is the day I eat a bullet.

In either case, I'm sure emailing your displeasure will have an impact on Disney. Yes, I'm sure it will, it must I mean, they only brought in 45 Million ish visitors (industry estimate) last year. a couple thousand people may have read that article. Think of the implications man!