Free Speech vs. a normal funeral

dodukes

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http://www.aolnews.com/nation/artic.../19662869?icid=main|main|dl1|sec1_lnk3|175688

WASHINGTON (Oct. 6) -- Supreme Court justices seemed to struggle with the question of whether the father of a dead Marine should win his lawsuit against fundamentalist church members who picketed his son's funeral.

The justices heard argument Wednesday in the emotion-laden case of Albert Snyder. His son died in Iraq in 2006, and members of the Westboro Baptist Church protested the funeral to make their point that U.S. deaths in Afghanistan and Iraq are punishment for Americans' immorality, including tolerance of homosexuality and abortion.

Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg said the question is whether the First Amendment must tolerate "exploiting this bereaved family."

THIS IS A BREAKING NEWS UPDATE. Check back soon for further information. AP's earlier story is below.

WASHINGTON (AP) - The father of a Marine killed in Iraq is asking the Supreme Court to reinstate a $5 million verdict against members of a fundamentalist church who picketed his son's funeral with signs like "Thank God for Dead Soldiers" and "God Hates the USA."

The court is hearing arguments Wednesday in the dispute between Albert Snyder of York, Pa., and members of the Westboro Baptist Church of Topeka, Kan. The case pits Snyder's right to grieve privately against the church members' right to say what they want, no matter how offensive.

Westboro members, led by the Rev. Fred Phelps, have picketed many military funerals to make their point that U.S. deaths in Afghanistan and Iraq are punishment for Americans' immorality, including tolerance of homosexuality and abortion.


Sponsored LinksThey welcome the attention the protests have brought, mocking their critics and vowing not to change their ways whatever the outcome at the Supreme Court.

"No American should ever be required to apologize for following his or her conscience," said Margie Phelps, a daughter of Fred Phelps and the lawyer who is arguing the case for the church.

Fundamentalist church members turned out in advance of the argument Wednesday morning, to march in front of the court with placards of the type they've been carrying to military funerals. One young boy held up a sign that reads, "God Hates You."

A line of people who trying to get into the argument stretched around the corner of the high court atop Capitol Hill.

Snyder undertook the lawsuit after the Phelpses picketed the funeral of his son, Lance Cpl. Matthew Snyder, in March 2006. The Marine was killed in a Humvee accident.

Snyder won an $11 million verdict against the church for intentional infliction of emotional distress, among other claims. A judge reduced the award to $5 million before the federal appeals court in Richmond, Va., threw out the verdict altogether, citing the church's First Amendment rights.

For Snyder, the case is not about free speech but harassment. "I had one chance to bury my son and it was taken from me," Snyder said.

Forty-eight states, 42 U.S. senators and veterans groups have sided with Snyder, asking the court to shield funerals from the Phelpses' "psychological terrorism."

While distancing themselves from the church's message, media organizations, including The Associated Press, have called on the court to side with the Phelpses because of concerns that a victory for Snyder could erode speech rights.


I usually always side with a person's right to free speech (even tho some times I think it's disgusting what they are spewing) but I don't think the courts should be taking any more rights away that we already have. But I have to say, I do agree with this guy, poor guy and poor family, it stinks that these people don't let the families of these soldiers mourn in peace.

What do you guys think?

Sorry if this isnt new news I was just catching up on aol news now. lol
 
They are disgusting low class human beings.
 
These people don't deserve a mention in the press or on this board. They disgust me.:mad:
 

The right to free speech must prevail if we are to continue to have a free country. However, that right comes with a price that people for decades have decided they shouldn't have to pay: you may be offended by other people's free speech.

There is no right to not be offended since there is no one agreed-upon value of what's offensive and what's not. I find bloody pictures of aborted fetuses to be offensive. Obviously those picketing my birth-control place do not.

The idiots picketing funerals with their agenda have a right to free speech if they are on public land. They may not have a high moral ground, but they are guaranteed this right just as we are. I hope the Supreme Court decides the same, otherwise a precident has been set for being able to sue for unpopular speech and we will all lose our rights to say what we think without having to worry about being sued or jailed for it.
 
I read a profile of Margie Phelps today and was surprised to see that she has a respectable day job. She works for the Kansas Dept. of Corrections and received an award for developing a program to successfully integrate prisoners back into the community. It was an interesting article even if she is still scum.
 
It would be nice if the fee you pay for a funeral went toward a "Private" rental of the cemetary or church area you are in, is that not possible?
 
I genuinely do not understand how this is a conflict. One entities rights must end where someone else's begin otherwise a society is destabilized. An individuals right's are sovereign and should be protected against bias, against opinion and common sentiment. However, humans are social animals so the fact we encroach upon each other can't be ignored. It is ridiculous that the courts keep looking at our rights as if we all live in little bubbles that don't effect each other? Where is the balance? One person's rights can't be omnipresent and unilteral without asking away someone else's rights, the courts refusal to acknowledge this reality is an oppression in and of itself. It is not about logic at all, it's about adopting a perspective that does not adequately address the human condition. No person is in a vacuum so to treat our rights as such is just absurd.

From a philosophical perspective I think the whole situation is an abomination.

From a person on the street perspective, I can't wait for Karma to set things straight, no-one gets to hurt other people without things being set right in the end.
 
http://www.aolnews.com/nation/artic.../19662869?icid=main|main|dl1|sec1_lnk3|175688




I usually always side with a person's right to free speech (even tho some times I think it's disgusting what they are spewing) but I don't think the courts should be taking any more rights away that we already have. But I have to say, I do agree with this guy, poor guy and poor family, it stinks that these people don't let the families of these soldiers mourn in peace.

What do you guys think?

I am very much like you in this regard. I struggle with the right to free speech and crossing the line of human decency.
 
Also remember guys, that you have the right to counter picket. Last summer a Marine a couple of townships over was being buried and Westboro was going to picket.

The local VFW was contacted and talk about an area springing into action!!!
A motorcycle brigade escorted the funeral procession.
Every member from the local churches including their choirs came out and softly sung church hymnals and spirituals
Police were there to make sure wackadoodles did not step 1 nanoinch onto the church grounds.
I swear every mom in the 3 county area came out and gave mini american flags to people.

Talk about shutting the wackadoodles down!!! Yeah. These guys objective is to get press. Well after 20 minutes of realizing they were out numbered & out classed they packed up their signs and sluncked (sp?) away to the resounding cheers of the community.
 
Where do ones person rights start and and another begins this is one of those times. I do beleive in freedom of speech but what about the rights of the family:confused3 The church group has rights but the family dosen't. It isn't right. NOT to mention that I find this group to be nothing then a bunch of idiots...where does it end today it is a soldiers family who knwos tomorrow are they going to protest a gay mans death or an athiests death. I find it ridiculas there should be alws to protect the families from people like this.
 
So does that mean that a group that proclaims family values can picket a hospital where unwed mothers give birth??
 
So does that mean that a group that proclaims family values can picket a hospital where unwed mothers give birth??

Most cities/counties/states require a permit to protest. WBC is vigilant in acquiring a permit, even for times when they aren't going to show up. That does mean that if a family values group acquires the permit, they can protest.
 
Learn something new, I had no idea you needed a permit to protest. Do all permits get granted then? or do they screen them?
 
The right to free speech must prevail if we are to continue to have a free country. However, that right comes with a price that people for decades have decided they shouldn't have to pay: you may be offended by other people's free speech.

There is no right to not be offended since there is no one agreed-upon value of what's offensive and what's not. I find bloody pictures of aborted fetuses to be offensive. Obviously those picketing my birth-control place do not.

The idiots picketing funerals with their agenda have a right to free speech if they are on public land. They may not have a high moral ground, but they are guaranteed this right just as we are. I hope the Supreme Court decides the same, otherwise a precident has been set for being able to sue for unpopular speech and we will all lose our rights to say what we think without having to worry about being sued or jailed for it.


This. I don't agree with what they do, but I agree they have the right to do it.
 
Learn something new, I had no idea you needed a permit to protest. Do all permits get granted then? or do they screen them?

not for content, but for the legalities on where they're going to protest, how many people, do they need to pay for law enforcement or whatever else the laws in that town require.
 
not for content, but for the legalities on where they're going to protest, how many people, do they need to pay for law enforcement or whatever else the laws in that town require.

wow jeez I had no idea, I guess it makes sense for them to want to know so they have enough police in case a riot ensues or whatever.

I just thought you showed up with your sign and protested...:lmao:
 
So does that mean that a group that proclaims family values can picket a hospital where unwed mothers give birth??

I wonder if it is "MY RIGHT" to protest at a funeral and say the person died because because they liked chocolate ice cream and God hates those who like chocolate ice cream.
Is it "my right" to protest at your family members funeral because I dont like what he or she did for a living? Maybe your an MLM sales person
Is it "my right" to protest at the funeral of your new born baby? Why I believe your baby died because God hates you for having a gay family member?

:confused3

If the court says it is ok to protest at funerals, it will open the flood gates to protest and any funeral. Protesting Anyone from John Doe small town guy to the passing of a former President or your young child. Any will have the right to have a sign and sing "ding dong the witch is dead" or I am so happy said person is dead.

:headache:
 
:confused3

If the court says it is ok to protest at funerals, it will open the flood gates to protest and any funeral. Protesting Anyone from John Doe small town guy to the passing of a former President or your young child. Any will have the right to have a sign and sing "ding dong the witch is dead" or I am so happy said person is dead.

:headache:

It's always been allowed to protest at funerals. It's not opening any flood gates - beyond this church I've never heard of anyone wanting to protest at anyones funeral.(though I'm sure it's happed before).
 

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