Free dining coming back soon????

[papamouse1]

Here's the thing folks.... the problem ultimately lies in the formula

"Food quality & menus worsened... Free DDP appeared... therefore free DDP did it."

I think we can all agree that quality has dropped, menus have thinned... prices have gone out the roof. That is not perception nor is it speculation... most people agree it is fact.

The problem is simply saying Free DDP is to blame is specualtion.
Someone saying Free DDP has no real impact on the quality of food is speculation.

I think most of us could say without doubt, that free DDP has made the problem worse, or has at least had an impact, but it is not the real root cause of the food failure... as far as my "speculation"

The fact is Disney has homogenized food and maximized profit over quality... during the same time period they have done the same thing in the resorts, in services, in merchandising. I hate to say it, but this would have happened anyway even if free DDP or regular DDP never existed... this is the direction everything about WDW was headed.

So we eliminate free DDP... Or DDP altogether. Then what? Do you really think they will bring back high quality meals at an affordable price?

I heard some even speculating that LeCellier would bring back a nicer high-end menu now that it is a signature meal on the DDP. I'll believe it when I see it.

So IMHO, I honestly don't see how eliminating free ddp will help in the end....
But that's just my opinion

BTW, I am DVC owner, so free dining is something I have never expereinced and it has no value to us at all.

 

[Oglet]

Go to Disneyland where they have no dining plan and compare the food there to that at WDW.

If a large percentage of people are eating for free then give them the cheapest food possible, after all free is free and you can't really complain too much about free.

 

[Luv2Roam]

From what I have seen and my experience servers and podium cast ask guests if they are on a dining plan so the guests can be told up front what can and cannot be ordered.
Such as a table on the deluxe plan would have more options than a regular DDP guest. And there are also dine with wine packages, which can also be regular dine or the deluxe.
I think it is just a heads up to the server for billing and explaining to guests.

 

[Peter Pirate 2]

I do hope that the free DDP does return, regardless of how the food is. I have been at WDW BEFORE and AFTER the start of the plan, and yes, the quality has gone down somewhat, but I am not there to eat "Cuisine" food. I can honestly say that table service food is still good at least for my family it was. We have tried all restaurants except Coral Reef and Le Cellier. I am not there to review the food I am there to enjoy my stay at DWD and the free DDP is a perk that allows my family to go. This year, if it is offered, we will try the Quick service DDP. Even though we have not had any problems with the table service, my family now wants to get in and out from eating and quick service will enable us to do that! I know that some of the cost is absorbed elsewhere in pricing, but budgeting the food with the free DDP is well worth it!

This is great. You've admitted that things probably aren't as good as they were but because good dining isn't something your family cares about you HOPE everyone is subjected to poor, overpriced, bland food despite the fact that it is obvious that many, many people are very disappointed in the current scenario.

I guess the me, me, me attitude has permeated all aspects of life. The heck with what others may want just give me what I want ... cheap.

 

[doconeill]

The DDP in general had an effect, because they didn't place restrictions on what could be ordered, and "compensated" the restaurant for a fixed price per meal, regardless of what was ordered. The affected the bottom lines of the restaurants, and to compensate (they still needed to show positive bottom lines) they needed to reduce the costs per meal.

Free Dining exacerbated this, by increasing radically the number of people utilizing the DDP.

Le Cellier IMO was a special case. The DDP and Free Dining made it incredibly popular. Why is debatable, but I believe it was because out of all of the WC it was the menu was familiar to the majority of guests. When we ate there back a couple years ago, they actually had a somewhat restricted DDP menu listed. Now that it is becoming Signature, at least with the DDP they will get credited for two credits instead of one.

And Disney has gone on record that there will be a new high-end menu that will vary seasonally with wine pairings, etc. So if they don't, everyone will call shenanigans.

 

[Oglet]

This is great. You've admitted that things probably aren't as good as they were but because good dining isn't something your family cares about you HOPE everyone is subjected to poor, overpriced, bland food despite the fact that it is obvious that many, many people are very disappointed in the current scenario.

I guess the me, me, me attitude has permeated all aspects of life. The heck with what others may want just give me what I want ... cheap.

We need a Facebook like button just for posts like yours

 

[KYMickey]

Here's the thing folks.... the problem ultimately lies in the formula

"Food quality & menus worsened... Free DDP appeared... therefore free DDP did it."

I think we can all agree that quality has dropped, menus have thinned... prices have gone out the roof. That is not perception nor is it speculation... most people agree it is fact.

The problem is simply saying Free DDP is to blame is specualtion.
Someone saying Free DDP has no real impact on the quality of food is speculation.

I think most of us could say without doubt, that free DDP has made the problem worse, or has at least had an impact, but it is not the real root cause of the food failure... as far as my "speculation"

I think if you read the quote below from "Doconeill" you will understand why the deterioration is due to DDP in general and in the Free DDP specifically!

The DDP in general had an effect, because they didn't place restrictions on what could be ordered, and "compensated" the restaurant for a fixed price per meal, regardless of what was ordered. The affected the bottom lines of the restaurants, and to compensate (they still needed to show positive bottom lines) they needed to reduce the costs per meal.

Free Dining exacerbated this, by increasing radically the number of people utilizing the DDP.

Very good and accurate explanation! If you follow the deterioration of the quality of food and the increases in price for it it correlates well with the start of the programs you mention. Another sad fact is people who POP get hit paying more for lower quality food because of the people who were eating for free. Before long dining will be included with your ticket and people will not have a choice if things continue this way.

 

[Donut23]

DH is a castmember so the dining plan has never held much interest for us with his discount. Our last trip in December we found the food simply too expensive for poor quality....even with his discounts.

After 24 hours we discovered the food off-site was FAR better, didn't have to make a reservation 180 days in advance and our food budget was 40% less overall this year.

It's a shame what they have done to the food at WDW in order to give away FREE dining.

 

[papamouse1]

KYMIckey...

The DDP in general had an effect, because they didn't place restrictions on what could be ordered, and "compensated" the restaurant for a fixed price per meal, regardless of what was ordered. The affected the bottom lines of the restaurants, and to compensate (they still needed to show positive bottom lines) they needed to reduce the costs per meal.
Free Dining exacerbated this, by increasing radically the number of people utilizing the DDP.

With all due respect to doconeill who I highly respect, you should also read the post from Backstage_Gal below (who truly sounds like she has clear info on how the actual discout/DDP works) and you will see a different perspective

I have to respectfully disagree. There is no accountabilty for the DDP discounts on the individual Resort or restaurant, as it is managed centrally to drive occupancy and park visits. Management is held to margins and other metrics excluding the DDP discounts. The GM does not control the rooms set aside either (for anything), all marketing promotions are managed by a group called Revenue Management, who control the blocks offered for each promotion/segment for all of WDW with a view of the entire Resort (ie: what to offere for each segment, etc.)

Again, DDP discounts are deemed a "non-controllable" expense at the local level.

So based on her information, she makes it clear that the individual restaurant being affected by free DDP are not required to reflect that loss. The cost to maintain the "free ddp" discount is treated the same as any other discount, so according to her info, it does not "affect their bottom line".
Not trying to start a high school debate here, but I still feel comfortable in my original statement. We absolutely should feel confident that DDP/free DDP had a negative affect, but to continue to act like DDP ruined WDW dining is just shortsighted. There is a whole lot more to the demise of dining than DDP, that is all I'm saying. And unless someone on this board works at the highest levels of Disney and was there when they planned out and discussed DDP, etc over the last few years, then all any of us are doing is speculating.

BTW... I saw PP mention DL, which brings up an interesting example. I am confident if you were to talk to folks in the DL forum and ask if food in DL resorts and in the parks has A)Gotten more homgenized and less enjoyable B)gotten ridiculously more expensive over the last few years, I think you would hear the same complaints we have for what's going on at WDW. I can't think about more than a couple restaurants in all of DL resort that makes memorable food anymore and it is $$$. And they managed to go downhill with absolutely no DDP or discounts to balme for it..... just sayin'

 

[doconeill]

But Backstage_Gal's post contradicts what another CM posted (CF I think), that the DDP IS included in the bottom line, and it really has to. The restaurant still has to justify staffing levels, cost for supplies, etc. If everyone happened to use the DDP that day, then they get $0 revenue on 100% expenses. There was a specific dollar amount mentioned as well, which for a TS meal I think was $28.

EVEN if it was managed centrally, cost is STILL a factor for the overall restaurant system, and it would explain why there would be broad-based cuts overall to reduce expenses to offset lack of revenues.

 

[mom2my3kids]

Heck I would be happy with free counter service plan...

 

[Oglet]

BTW... I saw PP mention DL, which brings up an interesting example. I am confident if you were to talk to folks in the DL forum and ask if food in DL resorts and in the parks has A)Gotten more homgenized and less enjoyable B)gotten ridiculously more expensive over the last few years, I think you would hear the same complaints we have for what's going on at WDW. I can't think about more than a couple restaurants in all of DL resort that makes memorable food anymore and it is $$$. And they managed to go downhill with absolutely no DDP or discounts to balme for it..... just sayin'

Actually I was there about 2 weeks ago and mentioned to a Manager how the variety and quality of food is so much better at DL. She said that it was only recent that they changed their menu (got away from the same sort of menu that is at WDW with quickservice) and added new items, she also said that the reception from guests has been very positive.

 

[Galen_50]

I think what everyone seems to be forgetting is that food prices in general have been going up more and more each year. And with every resturant, there is an amount of cost that is waste (mistakes, not sold before it goes bad). The resturants have to carry a certain amount of food so they do not run out, and the DDP makes sure there is a certain amount of guest in the resturants. This makes it easier for planning. This is also why the variety has gone down. The less items to choose from on the menu, the less inventory they have to keep on hand to go out of date. I think with the way cost of food has been rising over the last five-six years, you would have still seen a decrease in the variety even without the DDP. Disney is not the only amusement park that has decreased variety and quality but raised prices. This has been an industry wide occurance. Vending machines at Cedar Point has a Pepsi for $3.00 and a bag of M&Ms for $2.00.

 

[Peter Pirate 2]

I think what everyone seems to be forgetting is that food prices in general have been going up more and more each year. And with every resturant, there is an amount of cost that is waste (mistakes, not sold before it goes bad). The resturants have to carry a certain amount of food so they do not run out, and the DDP makes sure there is a certain amount of guest in the resturants. This makes it easier for planning. This is also why the variety has gone down. The less items to choose from on the menu, the less inventory they have to keep on hand to go out of date. I think with the way cost of food has been rising over the last five-six years, you would have still seen a decrease in the variety even without the DDP. Disney is not the only amusement park that has decreased variety and quality but raised prices. This has been an industry wide occurance. Vending machines at Cedar Point has a Pepsi for $3.00 and a bag of M&Ms for $2.00.

This doesn't hold water for the fine food portion of this debate. People who appreciate fine dining will pay 'market price' as long as the food is well above average.

 

[KYMickey]

But Backstage_Gal's post contradicts what another CM posted (CF I think), that the DDP IS included in the bottom line, and it really has to. The restaurant still has to justify staffing levels, cost for supplies, etc. If everyone happened to use the DDP that day, then they get $0 revenue on 100% expenses. There was a specific dollar amount mentioned as well, which for a TS meal I think was $28.

EVEN if it was managed centrally, cost is STILL a factor for the overall restaurant system, and it would explain why there would be broad-based cuts overall to reduce expenses to offset lack of revenues.

That certainly makes a lot more sense than what Backstage_Gal said. It's obvious a restaurants bottom line is constantly looked at. Now maybe they get some reimbursement from the resource division for each dining ticket used in their restaurant but I'm sure it does cover the entire cost of the meal if using the menu prices! While food prices have risen they have not risen nearly as fast as meal prices at WDW! It also seems like the prices in restaurants that do not accept DDP have not risen as much. Anyone who doesn't think DDP hasn't affected food prices and quality is blind.

 

[Galen_50]

This doesn't hold water for the fine food portion of this debate. People who appreciate fine dining will pay 'market price' as long as the food is well above average.

I was referring to the cost of the dinner someone would pay, I was referring to the cost to Disney for the food to make. As the person who does the grocery shopping for our family, I have seen the cost of simple items such as bread, milk, and meat increase incost as much as 25% in the last ten years. And I have notice that alot of chain resturants in the last 10 years have condensed their menus also. When I was first out of college I managed a chain pizza store. One cost that people don't see is waste for inventory that doesn't get sold before it expires, and the more variety of inventory, the more there is to spoil.

 

[Galen_50]

That certainly makes a lot more sense than what Backstage_Gal said. It's obvious a restaurants bottom line is constantly looked at. Now maybe they get some reimbursement from the resource division for each dining ticket used in their restaurant but I'm sure it does cover the entire cost of the meal if using the menu prices! While food prices have risen they have not risen nearly as fast as meal prices at WDW! It also seems like the prices in restaurants that do not accept DDP have not risen as much. Anyone who doesn't think DDP hasn't affected food prices and quality is blind.

Maybe they have raised the cost because they want to get everyone on the dinning plan. Think about it for a minute. Lets say you have a family of four going to the park. Without the dinning plan, the family may have a sit down meal, or a couple of hot dogs and split some drinks. Now, the park would love to know what they were doing before they come, so they have the price of food high, and make the dinning plan look like a real bargin. The dinning plan is garenteed money. They know when you are going to be there and already have your money. I wouldn't doubt Disney's goal is to have 100% of the their guest on the dinning plan.

I also would bet, that without the dinning plan the prices would be lower per meal. They want everyone to use the plan. And the way to do that is to make it look real good compared to the prices on the menu. And not only is it guarenteed money, but a bet alot of people leave the parks without completely using up their plan, which is money they would have not otherwise received.

 

[Hoodie]

On topic - I wouldn't be surprised if they offered free dining later in the year. I doubt it will be as prevelent as it was last year (didn't it seem like free dining was offered at some point every month?)

I agree the overall quality of the food has gone down, likely as a result of DDP, but so has service. Having gone in 2006 (on paid DDP) and 2007 with free dining (accidently - we were going then anyway. Just a good coincidence) I had two different experiences. Both times the restaurants were packed and service very spotty. We chalked it up to the place being busy.

In 2008 we went over 4th of July rather unexpectedly. We didn't get the dining because when I booked, I figured we'd never get ADRs with 10 days notice on one of the busiest weeks of the year, and we didn't know where we'd be any given day. We manged to get a couple of ADRs.

Of course they immediately ask if you're on the DDP. When we said no it was amazing in the difference in treatment! The waiters/waitresses were practically falling over themselves. They stayed and chatted, they treated us like royalty. The only place that we didn't get that treatment was at Kona. We couldn't find the server half the time, took forever to get anything, etc. It wasn't until the end of our entree when our server asked us if we needed anything (reluctantly) when we mentioned we weren't on the DDP. 100% change - suddenly a dessert tray was brought out, coffee offered, even refills on our drinks without having to tackle her first. None of that was in the offering when they thought we were on "The Plan"

I know there's been some speculation on the change in service and I can attest that you get treated MUCH better off plan than on (as long as they know you're off plan!)

 

[Familyx4]

I was at DL in December for my first trip and the counter service food was awful. In fact, I resorted to just eating the popcorn when I was really hungry. The food at DW is not good but may in part be to other factors than just the DP.