FP + What we know and what we want to know

[Melodious]

See I dont drink coffee but I think Disney only half listened. Yes people want different coffee, they just wanted it to be put somewhere else, or not mess with the bakery, but serve the coffee. Have what we love about the old mixed with the new.

Kind of like FP+ for me at least, I want the be able to schedule some things ahead of time, but I still want to repull a FP for my favorite ride later too. Or the old way I could ride TSMM and RNR, will I be able to do that with the new way, if not than we are not going to be happy campers. So I wanted the FP+ but I wanted it to enhance what I liked about the old way, so far I am not sure that is happening, it feels like a complete change. But maybe I am wrong

I think you have the crux of it, it's different. Period. There's no getting around that. Change can be exciting, I personally can't wait for MSB to be part Starbucks, partly because I'm not a coffee drinker. Change can be frightening and that's why people have lost their heads

 

[inkedupmomma]

As far as we know right now, no, FP+ will not be in use by that time.

But stay tuned...Disney could announce a date anytime.

I usually back Disney decisions pretty hardcore, but I am NOT feeling this new FP system :/

 

[rendy7]

Longtime lurker here. I visited WDW a lot when I was a kid and we lived near by but skipped about thirty years or so before I started going back 3 years ago. Thanks to this board my wife and I had a great time both visits. Long way of saying I have no clue what I'm talking about here.

I can't really believe that Disney intends to screw up 50+ years of queue evolution by deliberately making standby lines longer and more painful. They have spent a lot of money on this entire project and they are touting it as a revolution in what it means to visit a theme park.

Fastpass introduced the virtual queue. I would guess that FP+ builds on that and wonder if just maybe this a first step to making all lines virtual. There is no reason that I've read so far that that one couldn't just walk up to ride entrance and scan the card or bracelet and receive a ride time to come back. A FP+ just gets waved on into the queue of course. The ride time is added to the itinerary and you go do something else.

There would need to be a certain amount of line of course just to ensure ride efficiency, but that would be solved by having a return window. The return window would have to be much smaller than current FP windows. Lets say for example a fifteen minute window with 5 minutes before and 10 minutes after for a total return window of thirty minutes. That would probably make the queue a relatively stable thirty minutes or less in length. If the time one received was less than thirty minutes away one would get right into the queue.

People missing the window would move others up in the queue meaning one would need to check often for updates to the ride time if it was several hours away like I am sure TSMM would be. It would also mean more people clogging the walkways since they wouldn't be in line.

If I'm being stupid feel free to say so. I've just been pondering this whole thing in my head and this is the only thing I can see that makes sense. I've read a lot about this here and on other forums and blogs and whatnot and like most I'm just not seeing a lot of benefit to the avg guest unless there is some sort of endgame that we just aren't seeing yet.

 

[linzbear]

Longtime lurker here. I visited WDW a lot when I was a kid and we lived near by but skipped about thirty years or so before I started going back 3 years ago. Thanks to this board my wife and I had a great time both visits. Long way of saying I have no clue what I'm talking about here.

I can't really believe that Disney intends to screw up 50+ years of queue evolution by deliberately making standby lines longer and more painful. They have spent a lot of money on this entire project and they are touting it as a revolution in what it means to visit a theme park.

Fastpass introduced the virtual queue. I would guess that FP+ builds on that and wonder if just maybe this a first step to making all lines virtual. There is no reason that I've read so far that that one couldn't just walk up to ride entrance and scan the card or bracelet and receive a ride time to come back. A FP+ just gets waved on into the queue of course. The ride time is added to the itinerary and you go do something else.

There would need to be a certain amount of line of course just to ensure ride efficiency, but that would be solved by having a return window. The return window would have to be much smaller than current FP windows. Lets say for example a fifteen minute window with 5 minutes before and 10 minutes after for a total return window of thirty minutes. That would probably make the queue a relatively stable thirty minutes or less in length. If the time one received was less than thirty minutes away one would get right into the queue.

People missing the window would move others up in the queue meaning one would need to check often for updates to the ride time if it was several hours away like I am sure TSMM would be. It would also mean more people clogging the walkways since they wouldn't be in line.

If I'm being stupid feel free to say so. I've just been pondering this whole thing in my head and this is the only thing I can see that makes sense. I've read a lot about this here and on other forums and blogs and whatnot and like most I'm just not seeing a lot of benefit to the avg guest unless there is some sort of endgame that we just aren't seeing yet.

Fun fact: This was in testing at RnRC a couple of years ago, and is currently in practice (in a slightly different form) in dueling Dumbos.

I call it the Deli Counter Queue. Take a ticket, wait around until your number is called

 

[Cyrano]

Folks this is a reminder to stay on topic.
We are giving the thread a bit of latitude but perhaps it has run its course.
As long as it does not go it will remain open on this board.

 

[rendy7]

I was there during the test at RnRC and reading about the dueling Dumbos is what made my mind wander over to this. Instead of a number or pager you use a smartphone.

 

[McKelly]

That can be done in the phone settings, yes.

WiFi connection active, phone connection inactive.

Didn't even know there was an airplane setting on a phone. THANKS!

 

[bcrook]

OK, nobody even attempted to answer what Disney is going to do to entice people to stay on site, because all these FP+ details are equal to all! And with Free Dining being decreased and EMH hours cut by 33% it sure looks like there is something missing.

But my next question is for all of those people who think this will be helpful because FP+ will be waiting for you and people won't have to rush to parks early to get their FP.

What is the best case scenario for e-ticket rides? Because I can't really think of any for peak times when I generally go (my next trip is the second week of June when the peak dining prices kick in). Let's base our scenarios on the what is generally agreed upon. One park a day for FP+ use, no repeats, 3 FP+ total. Try it for each park. We don't know yet if the headliners are limited - assume the best, and use your FP+ for any rides.

Hollywood Studios:
TSMM - FP+ (no standby)
RnRC - FP+ (no standby)
ToT - FP + (debated on Fantasmic! but forget it). (maybe standby once).

Wait in SB for Star Tours two or three times.

Comments: That gives me a maximum of 7 rides in a full day. That is if I am lucky with Star Tours.

Disney Animal Kingdom:
FP+ - EE (single rider once)
FP+ - Safari (no standby)
FP+ - Dinosaur (no standby)
Kali River - Skip that no FP left.

Comments: 4 rides

EPCOT:
FP+ Soarin (no standby)
FP+ TT (no standby)
FP+ Illuminations Preferred Viewing (I guess).
Mission Space - 1 Standby

Comments: Bummer on being limited to one time on TT. 4 rides, and I can't even FP Maelstrom (I dislike waiting in the standby line)

This is where it gets tough...
MK:
FP+ Splash Mountain - no standby
FP+ Peter Pan (That is the worst Standby line ever!) No Standby
FP+ Space Mountain - definitely no standby
BTMR - skip
LMR - skip if it is long

Very few e-ticket rides, but there are lots of A, B, C, D attractions to fill my time. And I guess that is what is supposed to happen.

 

[Paula Sedley-Burke]

I read on the refillable mug thread that Disney was introducing RFID mugs to stop people keep using mugs year after year rather than buying them. They piloted this a while back at All Stars and now plan to roll it out to the resorts but no date specified yet. Now how will this fit with FP+ And bracelets ? Can I book a coke zero as one of my privileges as I come off the bus a cm holding it for me with a greeting of my choice selected from the below.....

Have a magical day Paula
Mickey says you must be thirsty Paula

Etc lol

If only....but when you think about the new system its possibilities are endless. I think eventually it will all link somehow.

 

[jenseib]

I read on the refillable mug thread that Disney was introducing RFID mugs to stop people keep using mugs year after year rather than buying them. They piloted this a while back at All Stars and now plan to roll it out to the resorts but no date specified yet. Now how will this fit with FP+ And bracelets ? Can I book a coke zero as one of my privileges as I come off the bus a cm holding it for me with a greeting of my choice selected from the below.....

Have a magical day Paula
Mickey says you must be thirsty Paula

Etc lol

If only....but when you think about the new system its possibilities are endless. I think eventually it will all link somehow.

I have not heard that they are continuing that? I heard it was a complete flop actually. They had tour groups staying there and they basically broke the machines to get them to work at a faster speed.

 

[mom2rtk]

I have not heard that they are continuing that? I heard it was a complete flop actually. They had tour groups staying there and they basically broke the machines to get them to work at a faster speed.

Oh, that's funny. I hadn't heard that!

 

[babydovesx2]

I wonder if there will be different colors wrist bands like the cards/tickets. i.e. club level guests have gold cards I wonder if their bands will be a different color than other guest.

 

[doconeill]

I have not heard that they are continuing that? I heard it was a complete flop actually. They had tour groups staying there and they basically broke the machines to get them to work at a faster speed.

I haven't looked at it, but I heard it was a flop and they stopped it, or at least didn't plan to expand - don't know if the test machines are still there.

It was my understanding that the test wasn't initiated by Disney but by one of Coke's vendor partners that was hoping to sell the tech to Disney.

In theory though, they could expand the tech to MagicBands - mug refilling would just be another entitlement.

 

[doconeill]

I wonder if there will be different colors wrist bands like the cards/tickets. i.e. club level guests have gold cards I wonder if their bands will be a different color than other guest.

Pictures of prototypes of the bands and the web site showed a selection of several basic colors, and there may be "designer" and personalized versions available for an upcharge.

 

[seashoreCM]

Fastpass introduced the virtual queue. I would guess that FP+ builds on that and wonder if just maybe this a first step to making all lines virtual. There is no reason that I've read so far that that one couldn't just walk up to ride entrance and scan the card or bracelet and receive a ride time to come back. A FP+ just gets waved on into the queue of course. .

There is, unfortunately, one reason that you may or may not have read so far.

At some point, when guests just walk up to the ride entrance and wish to scan the card or bracelet, there are no ride times remaining to be received.

The above fact is much more visible in the current paper fastpass system because you could see on the overhead signs that all the ride times prior to the return time shown have been given out.

(This is after some ride capacity has been set aside for real standby riders, or more likely, for leeway to keep the Fastpass queue from backing up too badly if FP riders arrive in large bunches).

One way to make all lines virtual is to get rid of the standby completely. This would be a big step backwards because there will now be times when the ride runs empty, i.e. nobody waiting in the FP queuing area which is the one and only. The overall throughput would be less and capacity would be wasted.

 

[doconeill]

Fastpass introduced the virtual queue. I would guess that FP+ builds on that and wonder if just maybe this a first step to making all lines virtual. There is no reason that I've read so far that that one couldn't just walk up to ride entrance and scan the card or bracelet and receive a ride time to come back. A FP+ just gets waved on into the queue of course. The ride time is added to the itinerary and you go do something else.

There would need to be a certain amount of line of course just to ensure ride efficiency, but that would be solved by having a return window. The return window would have to be much smaller than current FP windows. Lets say for example a fifteen minute window with 5 minutes before and 10 minutes after for a total return window of thirty minutes. That would probably make the queue a relatively stable thirty minutes or less in length. If the time one received was less than thirty minutes away one would get right into the queue.

If you make the return window too small, it becomes inflexible for guests and they won't use it.

The standby line still exists because you need to keep the ride running at full efficiency. Even if you gave out FPs such that 100% of the capacity was allocated FPs and the entire line was "virtual", you'll have people who don't show up, some that return later in their window, etc. So there will be "holes", and having a standby line is used to fill the holes. You'll also have an excess at times as well - but if you've allocated FP at 100%, you don't have a built-in way to absorb that excess other than to hope there is another lull.

So you can't really allocate at 100%, allow any flexibility in return time and still work efficiently.

One of the NextGen line tests, which they tried at RNRC, essentially tried a 100% virtual line (albeit combined with Fastpass). It required everyone to basically stay put in the area, with the exception that if your "group" wasn't going to be called for a while, you could leave but you needed to be back on time or lose it. Kind of like boarding an airplane.

It hasn't been seen since.

 

[seashoreCM]

If you make the return window too small, it becomes inflexible for guests and they won't use it. .

Hmmm. That gives me an idea although implementing it would be a bear.

Each day, guests would have the choice of receiving say 4 Fastpass reservations with one hour return windows, or somewhat more, say, 7 Fastpass reservations with five minute return windows.

(I would expect that the same complements and choice would be included with your park admission whether you were staying at the Grand Floridian or out on 192 at the Motel 6, and whether you had or did not have a smart phone.)

More practically, we could build on the Nextgen experiment used briefly at Rock & Roller Coaster. It would be an organized legalization of the ability to get in a standby line, leave to go to the rest room or get a Dole Whip, then come back and regain your original position in line. It would not be necessary to hand out buzzers, but rather numbered slips of paper similar to those you take at deli (delicatessen; sandwich shop) counter or Southwest Airlines could be used. In the name of conservation, (reusable) paddles similar to auction paddles could be used instead of slips of paper.

 

[estherhead]

In the name of conservation, (reusable) paddles similar to auction paddles could be used instead of slips of paper.

Can you imagine handing out reusable (and therefore slightly sturdy) paddles in a park full of children? Beware of your behind, and, well, pretty much everything else. You're gonna be hit a lot!

 

[doconeill]

Hmmm. That gives me an idea although implementing it would be a bear.

Each day, guests would have the choice of receiving say 4 Fastpass reservations with one hour return windows, or somewhat more, say, 7 Fastpass reservations with five minute return windows.

It's too early, but I can't get my head to come up with a way on how you'd be able to control the return rate if you are mixing the two in the same time periods. I _think_ if, say, you took one FP out of the system with a return time of 1pm-2pm, you could then in turn issue 12 "mini" FPs with 5 minute return times.

5 minutes might be too restrictive...but 20-30 minutes might be OK. Say someone gives up their FP+ slot late in the game...slice it up and offer it to 2-3 other guests. But then, as a family of 4, you need to offer me 4 such slots...one does me no good.

More practically, we could build on the Nextgen experiment used briefly at Rock & Roller Coaster. It would be an organized legalization of the ability to get in a standby line, leave to go to the rest room or get a Dole Whip, then come back and regain your original position in line. It would not be necessary to hand out buzzers, but rather numbered slips of paper similar to those you take at deli (delicatessen; sandwich shop) counter or Southwest Airlines could be used. In the name of conservation, (reusable) paddles similar to auction paddles could be used instead of slips of paper.

This basically sounds exactly like the RNRC test.

The problem with the "reusable" tokens is eventually they "disappear" and need to be replaced...

 

[Mkrop]

OK, nobody even attempted to answer what Disney is going to do to entice people to stay on site, because all these FP+ details are equal to all! And with Free Dining being decreased and EMH hours cut by 33% it sure looks like there is something missing.

But my next question is for all of those people who think this will be helpful because FP+ will be waiting for you and people won't have to rush to parks early to get their FP.

What is the best case scenario for e-ticket rides? Because I can't really think of any for peak times when I generally go (my next trip is the second week of June when the peak dining prices kick in). Let's base our scenarios on the what is generally agreed upon. One park a day for FP+ use, no repeats, 3 FP+ total. Try it for each park. We don't know yet if the headliners are limited - assume the best, and use your FP+ for any rides.

Hollywood Studios:
TSMM - FP+ (no standby)
RnRC - FP+ (no standby)
ToT - FP + (debated on Fantasmic! but forget it). (maybe standby once).

Wait in SB for Star Tours two or three times.

Comments: That gives me a maximum of 7 rides in a full day. That is if I am lucky with Star Tours.

Disney Animal Kingdom:
FP+ - EE (single rider once)
FP+ - Safari (no standby)
FP+ - Dinosaur (no standby)
Kali River - Skip that no FP left.

Comments: 4 rides

EPCOT:
FP+ Soarin (no standby)
FP+ TT (no standby)
FP+ Illuminations Preferred Viewing (I guess).
Mission Space - 1 Standby

Comments: Bummer on being limited to one time on TT. 4 rides, and I can't even FP Maelstrom (I dislike waiting in the standby line)

This is where it gets tough...
MK:
FP+ Splash Mountain - no standby
FP+ Peter Pan (That is the worst Standby line ever!) No Standby
FP+ Space Mountain - definitely no standby
BTMR - skip
LMR - skip if it is long

Very few e-ticket rides, but there are lots of A, B, C, D attractions to fill my time. And I guess that is what is supposed to happen.

My guess is that those of us who want to ride the headliners more than once, would still need to get there early, get in SB, and the FP+ for later in the day