FP+ = WDW Losing Money

[sonofanarchy]

We can use the exchange and choose an alternate destination..

Yes, because without DVC, you'd never have been able to visit those locations.

 

[kittyab]

Yes, because without DVC, you'd never have been able to visit those locations.

Why are you so down on DVC?

There is nothing wrong with prepaying for a portion of a vacation.

 

[sonofanarchy]

Why are you so down on DVC?

There is nothing wrong with prepaying for a portion of a vacation.

I'm not down on it. What I'm down on are people defending it like it's a wise financial investment, even if they don't plan on using it for WDW.

As for prepaying for a portion of vacation, don't confuse that with saving money, which is what some members brag about doing, like they know something the rest of us don't. Those who aren't members aren't missing out and we didn't screw up by not joining.

 

[kittyab]

I'm not down on it. What I'm down on are people defending it like it's a wise financial investment, even if they don't plan on using it for WDW.

As for prepaying for a portion of vacation, don't confuse that with saving money, which is what some members brag about doing, like they know something the rest of us don't. Those who aren't members aren't missing out and we didn't screw up by not joining.

I never said anyone screw up for not joining... as for saving money.... I think I did. I paid about 3 trips of vacation funds for DVC points. Our contract is for 50 years. I am not sorry that we did this, and I can't wait to use them!

 

[sonofanarchy]

I paid about 3 trips of vacation funds for DVC points. Our contract is for 50 years. I am not sorry that we did this, and I can't wait to use them!

Either you were taking ridiculously expensive trips, or you bought hardly any points.

Not even the most ardent DVC reporter would argue that the cost to join is equivalent of 3 trips. How many points do you own? What did you pay per point?

 

[bcrook]

I never said anyone screw up for not joining... as for saving money.... I think I did. I paid about 3 trips of vacation funds for DVC points. Our contract is for 50 years. I am not sorry that we did this, and I can't wait to use them!

I have DVC too, and I do like using it. But it is a lot like the dining plan. It is only a good deal if you accept the ridiculous rates that Disney is charging in the first place. The dining plan looks great if you think $200.00 for a family of four is reasonable for a buffet dinner. The DVC looks great when assessing value using $1100 villas that would cost 1/10 that much off site.

Using DVC away from the parks isn't as economical as other options.

I am a timeshare junkie, but I realize they aren't great bargains. And those maintenance fees just keep going up.

 

[photo_chick]

I see to huge pitfalls to the new FP+ system. A large number of people (according to posts on here and other boards) no longer see staying at the resorts as a perk. With decreased EMH and the problems that still exist with the current FP+ system, people are going to take a long hard look at what they are "really" paying for and compare that to what more they can get offsite. For my up coming visit in May I have a 2 bedroom, 2 bathroom condo 5 min disney for 1/4 of the price I would pay to stay at the All Star. If I were a Disney exec I would be the MOST concerned with this next "bottom line" observation. With the new system people are spending more time in line and that means pure and simple less time to shop and eat. That is where Disney makes the most money! I hope that when they start to see significant losses that we will start to see changes to the system. It might not be immediate, but I would not be surprised if that fact has already become quite evident.

I think you're seriously underestimating the draw of staying at a "Disney" resort for many people.

 

[sonofanarchy]

I have DVC too, and I do like using it. But it is a lot like the dining plan. It is only a good deal if you accept the ridiculous rates that Disney is charging in the first place. The dining plan looks great if you think $200.00 for a family of four is reasonable for a buffet dinner. The DVC looks great when assessing value using $1100 villas that would cost 1/10 that much off site.

Using DVC away from the parks isn't as economical as other options.

I am a timeshare junkie, but I realize they aren't great bargains. And those maintenance fees just keep going up.

Exactly.

I've looked into DVC MANY times in the past. If anything, I've decided if I was ever to join, it would have to be resale, as there is no bargain at all buying through Disney anymore.

But when looking at DVC, it has to be an apples to apples comparison, both ways.

 

[Axel]

Yeah.....What's not to love?

What does this have to do with owning DVC? You could do what you're doing staying at the Swan or Dolphin for half the price.

I'm sorry, but people that say they love DVC because they can just enjoy the resort instead of the parks...I don't get that. You could enjoy MUCH nicer resorts all over the world for a fraction of what you paid to be DVC owners. You paid the premium for DVC because it's on Disney property. Why bother joining DVC if you really don't care about the parks?

My dad did the math on our trips to figure out how many we would have to take in order to break even on the DVC purchase and it was about 8 and half week-long stays in deluxe resorts (which is what the hotels are). Here we are, nine years and at least 20 trips later. Granted, we've added on since then so we probably would need 23 trips since 2004 to break even... wait... so by the trip we have planned for February of 2015, we'll have broken 100% even on the initial investment and still have 39 years of contract left.

Plus, we invested enough that we have enough points to use on a cruise; on hotels in California, Paris, Tokyo, and Hong Kong to visit the international parks; Aulani; Vero Beach; plus the several hundred resorts worldwide that we can stay at using points or by converting points; plus we have enough that through banking/borrowing we could do one of the Adventures by Disney excursion. My dad isn't a traveler, but I'll inherit the points (actually, I'll soon be an outright owner of the points) and use them because I do love to travel and I want my kids to see the world.

Further, we recognize that many people don't have the luxury of being able to afford to take three trips to Disney a year (believe me, it takes us a lot of penny pinching and wise spending/saving to afford what we have, but it's worth it to us). So, we regularly use our points to take family members or friends with us. One of the biggest costs at Disney is the room and for many people who may only go once or twice, it's part of the experience to stay in a Disney room. Thus, dad and I like to cover the room entirely to make it more affordable. I've brought five of my friends in the last eight years and we've treated just about everyone possible in my family to a room whether they were with us or not.

We still believe in the magic and for us, that's what makes it magical.

Plus, if fewer people stay on property, that'll be fantastic for me. Fewer people booking FP+ in advance/clogging up MDE when I'm trying to make my reservations, fewer people crowding the busses with their huge strollers and inability to move all the way back, easier to get dining reservations at 180+10 (not to mention the convenience of not having to call at the 180 day mark for each day of the vacation), and maybe the rooms will be in better shape because fewer people will be rotating through them. For me, I'm not seeing a downside to people moving off-site and I'm pretty sure Disney isn't going to be too bothered by it, either.

 

[robinb]

I'm not down on it. What I'm down on are people defending it like it's a wise financial investment, even if they don't plan on using it for WDW.

As for prepaying for a portion of vacation, don't confuse that with saving money, which is what some members brag about doing, like they know something the rest of us don't. Those who aren't members aren't missing out and we didn't screw up by not joining.

I originally bought 230 points at OKW and then sold that contact 10 years later before DVC nosedived along with the rest of the economy. We paid cash for OKW and sold it at a profit. My total cost of ownership, (OKW purchase price + maintenance fees - OKW sales price), came out to about $5520 over 10 years. We stayed a total of 156 room nights (all levels ... studios, 1 BR, 2BR GVs) and ended up paying an average of $35.39 per night. No, it wasn't an "investment" for us, but it came out to be a darn good discount!

 

[sonofanarchy]

Doing the "math" on DVC is very difficult. So many factors. Room discounts, dues increases, etc. I have no doubt, for some, it makes financial sense. For others, it does not.

I was replying to the poster who said DVC paid for itself in 3 trips. I call bullocks on that one.

 

[Sabor]

Doing the "math" on DVC is very difficult. So many factors. Room discounts, dues increases, etc. I have no doubt, for some, it makes financial sense. For others, it does not.

I was replying to the poster who said DVC paid for itself in 3 trips. I call bullocks on that one.

Call Bollocks all you want I can tell you 100% that I paid for my DVC in 3 trips (based on rack rates and ticket prices) or in less than a year and a half.

However, I purchased mine resale in 1998 for $51 a point (230 at OKW), it had banked points when we bought and it included free park passes up until Jan 1, 2000 (excluding AK). We made three trips two of them over 10 days, all during low point value times and only 1 weekend in the trips to stretch them, I also loaned points to my brother who used them in Dec 1999 and transferred points back to me when he bought DVC in 2000. I do agree that the $$ doesn't seem to make sense nowadays given how inflated they are now.

We have since stayed at VWL, BCV, BWV, SS, AKL and Treehouse Villas severl times.

DVC was the best thing we ever did -- I never viewed it as an investment but a prepaid vacation package that would ensure my family went on vacations at a time when I was working so much and didn't vacation enough.

 

[kittyab]

Doing the "math" on DVC is very difficult. So many factors. Room discounts, dues increases, etc. I have no doubt, for some, it makes financial sense. For others, it does not.

I was replying to the poster who said DVC paid for itself in 3 trips. I call bullocks on that one.

I am comparing what I spent on a WDW trip we just made in Nov. 3 of those trips will pay for what I spent on DVC.

I didn't come here to be attacked. I thought this board was about sharing tips on how to have a more magical time while visiting WDW.

 

[sonofanarchy]

Call Bollocks all you want I can tell you 100% that I paid for my DVC in 3 trips (based on rack rates and ticket prices) or in less than a year and a half.

However, I purchased mine resale in 1998 for $51 a point (230 at OKW), it had banked points when we bought and it included free park passes up until Jan 1, 2000 (excluding AK). We made three trips two of them over 10 days, all during low point value times and only 1 weekend in the trips to stretch them, I also loaned points to my brother who used them in Dec 1999 and transferred points back to me when he bought DVC in 2000. I do agree that the $$ doesn't seem to make sense nowadays given how inflated they are now.

We have since stayed at VWL, BCV, BWV, SS, AKL and Treehouse Villas severl times.

DVC was the best thing we ever did -- I never viewed it as an investment but a prepaid vacation package that would ensure my family went on vacations at a time when I was working so much and didn't vacation enough.

So, you never paid dues?

You just can't do simple math on it. I stayed at OKW in 2004 for 5 nights for $500 by renting points. Disney tries to sell you on the notion of rack rate at the most expensive time of the year. It's just not that simple.

 

[sonofanarchy]

I am comparing what I spent on a WDW trip we just made in Nov. 3 of those trips will pay for what I spent on DVC.

I didn't come here to be attacked. I thought this board was about sharing tips on how to have a more magical time while visiting WDW.

It is. But when you post information that is misleading, you're going to get replies that call you out. Now, MAYBE the way you were able to get DVC (or when) worked out that way, but it is far from typical. And again, the comparison to rack rates just isn't apples to apples.

 

[CWdreamer]

It doesn't change anything for us at all. we stay on property because we love being there. FP+ has nothing to do with it.

I agree with you!

 

[glammadiva]

It doesn't change anything for us at all. we stay on property because we love being there. FP+ has nothing to do with it.

While the FP+ limit aggravates me, it isn't changing my mind. Neither are the Magic Bands (which I have used 5 times). Yes the resorts aren't equal to offsite property, but, I don't have rent a car, and pay for gas, I don't have to pay for parking if I use Disney transportation, if I fly, I can get free transport from MCO to my resort, I am not paying a daily parking fee at an off-site location, I am not paying a resort fee (which ups the daily rate at the offsite resort which can match a Disney resort daily rate), I can get off the Disney bus right near the park entrance, cast members are awesome, I can have packages sent to my resort, I get to stay in the bubble. I think it boils down to everyone's individual preferences -- money over the full experience. There is no right or wrong way to stay, just lots of things to consider before one makes their choice. (We (2 of us) were stuck staying at an off-site hotel in October during one of our last minute trips, as we could not get an on-site room and absolutely, positively HATED not being able to stay on-site!)

 

[robinb]

It is. But when you post information that is misleading, you're going to get replies that call you out. Now, MAYBE the way you were able to get DVC (or when) worked out that way, but it is far from typical. And again, the comparison to rack rates just isn't apples to apples.

Just for fun, I priced a standard view room at Boardwalk Inn using the 30% off Spring Promo for the first week of June. It came out to $2287 with tax. I then calculated how many points I would need for a standard view studio at Boardwalk Villas and it was 106. I found a loaded 100 point resale for BWV at The Timeshare Store for $9302 with closing costs. Dues are $602 per month. If you assume that the rack rate nor the dues will increase (I know, fat chance) and disregard the "value of money" for ponying up nearly $10K all at once, the break even on that week in June will be part way through the 6th year. And this was an expensive contract @ $89 per point. Most of the other contracts with more points were closer to $82 per point.

 

[Marthasor]

I personally know 3 people who were considering off-site stays who ultimately chose to stay onsite because of FP+ and the ability to pre-book. I don't really see Disney losing money on this.

 

[jade1]

Yea my BIL came out really well with BCV, bought at opening and sold about 6 years later for quite a bit more than he paid-pretty much covered the investment and the dues. They had always stayed deluxe before that. But that's not typical-although having a Disney time share as an asset should be counted in any calculation IMO. Rented rooms have no ROI financially.

I keep wondering if they might use FP+ as a DVC incentive down the road.

Would make an easier sale and not cost WDW anything extra. Maybe it would be "no tiers for 5 years" (has a nice ring to it, if they bring back tiers) or "2 additional FP+ in a second park for 3 years" or "90 day ressie window" or whatever.

They used to offer park passes with DVC purchase-IMO that actually did cost WDW money, because a DVC owner was going to buy them anyway.