FP+ doesn't make lines longer.

[wisblue]

You're right. I was using my own personal numbers from 2013 which were lower than the 2013 median because they were close to rope drop. Given that wait times are now increasing very early in the day, I felt using the 2014 median times for my post FP+ numbers was pretty accurate. Any way you slice it, wait time went up.

And PEAK wait times went WAY up. 35min to 70 for Jungle Cruise is nothing to sneeze at, nor is 20 to 40 for POTC.

You can still do all of those things with little or no wait if you go to them right at rope drop (or at least you could have on the day we went to the MK in August).

Those peak posted wait times (which almost certainly occur in the middle of the afternoon) are of no consequence to people who do most of the major attractions early and save their FPs for later. On that day in August we did
7DMT, the 3 mountains, HM, JC, and POC (and a few other lesser attractions) by early afternoon using standby (never waiting more than 10 minutes for anything) and 3 FPs that we picked up at the park. And we were not hurrying because we were not on any kind of a mission to see how many rides we could rack up.

 

[cakebaker]

"Everyone"? Maybe if you said "at least some people" but it certainly isn't true for everyone. If I made an absolute statement like that I can think of at least 2 or 3 of your fellow club members who would jump all over it.

(Sound familiar? LOL!)

You know, if every time someone says always, everyone, vast majority, or any of those phrases or words, it's going to get really old pointing it out.

 

[Luvchefmic]

re the dr Disney link above from the article:

Please let it be known that Disney does not, and has not released any official information regarding attendance figures for their parks. The numbers represented in the 2013 Theme Index: Global Attractions Attendance Report are published estimates based off of research.

 

[Angel Ariel]

So I just ran a google search asking " did attendance rise at WDW in 2013" and got this as the top response:

http://www.aecom.com/deployedfiles/...ents/2012 Theme Index Combined_1-1_online.pdf

Now granted, this is 2012, I haven't read it all- but it looks like there might be some attendance numbers in there- have no clue if it's good or bad.

But point is, with a little more search it's probably discoverable.

This is taken from the site that created the report you linked:
http://www.aecom.com/What+We+Do/Economics/Theme+Index+Report

AECOM obtains the figures used to create the TEA/AECOM Theme and Museum Index through a variety of sources, including statistics furnished directly by the operators, historical numbers, financial reports, the investment banking community and local tourism organizations, among others.

The figures used in their report are not strict attendance figures from Disney themselves, but a compilation of many different sources...an estimate, not exact. The definitive public numbers, yes...pretty sure this is the source that is used year after year. But that isn't the same thing as the full, official attendance records from Disney themselves, which is what I was referring to.

 

[Luvchefmic]

WHAT is my problem? All I need to do is book a hotel stay in the next town over from the one where I live and then I can finally stop whining. It's so simple! Why didn't I think of that before?

Or, I can express my displeasure at a system that used to work well and now doesn't. Except then I'm a whiner. What to do?

shall we share a room at POP then we can stop whining

 

[famy27]

Here's a more readable article:

http://www.doctordisney.com/2014/06...ndance-2013-released-magic-kingdom-tops-list/

It does bolster the claim about rising attendance and it would appear as though Disney is still King and firmly entrenched as such.

But:
"Please let it be known that Disney does not, and has not released any official information regarding attendance figures for their parks. The numbers represented in the 2013 Theme Index: Global Attractions Attendance Report are published estimates based off of research."

So, at this point, all of us (including TEA) are just guessing. Some guesses are more educated than others, but Disney most certainly does NOT release their information. I sure wish they would. That would be fascinating (and an endless source of DISertainment).

I will not that EP was estimated to be up only 1.5%, so I have such a hard time attributing an increase in wait times for Imagination to anything other than FP+. But since WDW won't tell us, we can continue to debate this forevermore.

 

[wisblue]

No one is stating it is a death March. We do for the most part disagree with the title of this post, which by what we have read makes it untrue, in fact the opposite. I think Josh has no horse in this race and has concluded, longer wait times. Enough said.

If you have paid attention to my other posts in the thread, I have never contended that wait times haven't gone up for some attractions.

But I do contest people who just throw out statements to the effect that standby lines for rides that used to be 10 minutes or less are now routinely 20-30 minutes or more longer.

And, while "death march" may be my term, it doesn't seem far off when people say they are now dreading their WDW trip because FP+ has made things so much less enjoyable.

 

[itchin2go]

Someone a few pages back said that legacy worked great for the people who were not lazy and got off their butts to arrive for RD. A few pages later, someone said something to the effect that you had to be rich to stay onsite at a moderate or above. Repeatedly, the argument has been that onsite guests have an unfair advantage and nothing is left at 30 days out. I didn't make any of this stuff up...this is what I synthesized from the previous posts. I think if they are going to whine about how the system is worthless for onsite guests, then they shouldn't be a part of it.

Then, it might help if you respond to those posts.

Again, I'm just one person debating this theory, but there are other posters on this thread who never said anything of the sort, and don't agree with it at all. It came out of left field for me.

I have stayed onsite and off. I am not rich. Even when I stayed onsite, we did rope drop, but I assure you, I can be lazy - just not when there's a Disney park open and within driving distance. If people are saying ugly things about onsiters, well, that's just weird. I wouldn't put much stock into it. Stay where you want to stay and have a good time. Get up when you want to get up.

I think your last sentence is ... extreme. Voicing your opinion on a message board means you shouldn't have access to FP? If snark = losing privileges, it won't just be those unnamed posters on the losing end.

 

[cakebaker]

This is taken from the site that created the report you linked:
http://www.aecom.com/What+We+Do/Economics/Theme+Index+Report



The figures used in their report are not strict attendance figures from Disney themselves, but a compilation of many different sources...an estimate, not exact. The definitive public numbers, yes...pretty sure this is the source that is used year after year. But that isn't the same thing as the full, official attendance records from Disney themselves, which is what I was referring to.

I understand that, I was simply pointing out some data that does seem to indicate the rise in attendance. While it's not data Disney has officially released, it does seem to be quite reliable numbers.

Btw- I've never claimed wait times were not up. I'd just argue that I've looked at the charts like everyone else and I don't see any increases in wait time that seem alarming to me. It's up on some, down on others, but nothing that seems that extreme.

 

[Laketravis]

You know, if every time someone says always, everyone, vast majority, or any of those phrases or words, it's going to get really old pointing it out.

Or "people", right?

Those were Wisblu's words, not mine. I just re-posted them because they seemed appropriate.

 

[flicx]

If you have paid attention to my other posts in the thread, I have never contended that wait times haven't gone up for some attractions.

But I do contest people who just throw out statements to the effect that standby lines for rides that used to be 10 minutes or less are now routinely 20-30 minutes or more longer.

And, while "death march" may be my term, it doesn't seem far off when people say they are now dreading their WDW trip because FP+ has made things so much less enjoyable.

Again I have no beef with your opinions on making a point that FP plus can be used to get similar results sometimes. I respect that. I however have a problem with the title of this thread, it is inherently false, as proven by reliable sources to most posters. That is all I am saying and do not wish to convey anything else.

 

[itchin2go]

You know, if every time someone says always, everyone, vast majority, or any of those phrases or words, it's going to get really old pointing it out.

It's always the same people using the terms. People should stop speaking for everyone else, and stop making sweeping unsubstantiated statements. It's an easy fix. #sweepingunsubstantiatedstatements

re the dr Disney link above from the article:

Please let it be known that Disney does not, and has not released any official information regarding attendance figures for their parks. The numbers represented in the 2013 Theme Index: Global Attractions Attendance Report are published estimates based off of research.

Good find.

If you have paid attention to my other posts in the thread, I have never contended that wait times haven't gone up for some attractions.

But I do contest people who just throw out statements to the effect that standby lines for rides that used to be 10 minutes or less are now routinely 20-30 minutes or more longer.

Sadly, I have seen some anecdotal evidence on these boards that the rumors of increased wait times on middle of the road attractions are fact, that rope drop is not nearly as successful as it has been. It's not scientific, but coupled with the data from easywdw, it's enough to have me worried.

shall we share a room at POP then we can stop whining

 

[wisblue]

"Everyone"? Maybe if you said "at least some people" but it certainly isn't true for everyone. If I made an absolute statement like that I can think of at least 2 or 3 of your fellow club members who would jump all over it.

(Sound familiar? LOL!)

Thanks for proving my point.

Although I said "everyone seems". I didn't say it was "undisputed".

"Good grief. Why do so many threads like this deteriorate into an argument over semantics?" (Sound familiar LOL?)

Maybe you should practice what you preach.

 

[cakebaker]

It's always the same people using the terms

.
Yet another sweeping unsubstantiated statement-

 

[flicx]

This is official. I don't wish to miss my fast pass for the bed. So my wife just informed I better hurry up or I'm on the couch for the night. So good evening all!

 

[Angel Ariel]

I understand that, I was simply pointing out some data that does seem to indicate the rise in attendance. While it's not data Disney has officially released, it does seem to be quite reliable numbers.

I agree that TEA is reliable information. That's why I described them as "the definitive public numbers" in my last post.

They are not, however, official numbers from Disney. The poster I was responding to claimed that Disney released all data because they are a publicly traded company. I was simply refuting that assertion.

Btw- I've never claimed wait times were not up. I'd just argue that I've looked at the charts like everyone else and I don't see any increases in wait time that seem alarming to me. It's up on some, down on others, but nothing that seems that extreme.

I haven't been in on this arguing either way. The poster I was responding to called into question the reliability of EasyWDW's data. I disagree with that assertion, which is what I responded to. EasyWDW and TouringPlans are, at least IMO, as reliable as anyone is going to get when it comes to analyzing data about Disney wait times when Disney does not release the numbers themselves. That is all I was trying to say.

 

[itchin2go]

.
Yet another sweeping unsubstantiated statement-

Actually, it's shockingly easy to substantiate. Some people just can't help themselves and have a pathological need to speak for the "vast majority".

#sweepingunsubstantiatedstatement
#vastmajority

 

[Luvchefmic]

This is official. I don't wish to miss my fast pass for the bed. So my wife just informed I better hurry up or I'm on the couch for the night. So good evening all!

Obviously that FP is an on-site perk

 

[Luvchefmic]

Actually, it's shockingly easy to substantiate. Some people just can't help themselves and have a pathological need to speak.

There fixed it for you

 

[Laketravis]

Thanks for proving my point.

Although I said "everyone seems". I didn't say it was "undisputed".

"Good grief. Why do so many threads like this deteriorate into an argument over semantics?" (Sound familiar LOL?)

Maybe you should practice what you preach.

LOL! It's all good. Goodnight Wis!