FP+ and baby swap

[mrsp1030]

Okay since everyone needs a FP now, how many people can go on the ride during rider swap now? Our youngest DS will only be 2 when we go but we have two older boys and in the past we've been allowed to take both boys with the 2nd adult.

 

[DopeyDame]

Okay since everyone needs a FP now, how many people can go on the ride during rider swap now? Our youngest DS will only be 2 when we go but we have two older boys and in the past we've been allowed to take both boys with the 2nd adult.

It sounds like it's two people now - so pick your favorite kid.
And I *think* that the older boys would need a fastpass for the ride anyway, if the first party goes in the FP line, so again - there's really no point at all in even bothering to get a baby swap pass - they've completely eliminated the benefit of baby swap when used in conjunction with FP+.

(I wonder what would happen if you "hid" the older boys when you were getting the baby swap pass - would he be able to go with you on the babyswap pass even though he didn't originally scan his FP+?. Of course, that would mean he wouldn't be in the first party that goes through, so it probably wouldn't help your situation anyway. Just wondering how they are actually implementing this "everyone in your party needs a FP+" crap.)

 

[lizard1]

Okay since everyone needs a FP now, how many people can go on the ride during rider swap now? Our youngest DS will only be 2 when we go but we have two older boys and in the past we've been allowed to take both boys with the 2nd adult.

The passes I received last month all stated they were valid for 3 riders.

 

[lizard1]

It sounds like it's two people now - so pick your favorite kid.
And I *think* that the older boys would need a fastpass for the ride anyway, if the first party goes in the FP line, so again - there's really no point at all in even bothering to get a baby swap pass - they've completely eliminated the benefit of baby swap when used in conjunction with FP+.

(I wonder what would happen if you "hid" the older boys when you were getting the baby swap pass - would he be able to go with you on the babyswap pass even though he didn't originally scan his FP+?. Of course, that would mean he wouldn't be in the first party that goes through, so it probably wouldn't help your situation anyway. Just wondering how they are actually implementing this "everyone in your party needs a FP+" crap.)

The older boys would need a FP for the ride, but they would also get to ride twice, once with the original FP and once with the other parent on the Rider Swap ticket.

They are implementing the "everyone needs a FP" by making everyone scan their band in the FP line PRIOR to giving out the Rider Swap.

Oh, and it hasn't eliminated the benefit to having Rider Swap in the first place. Say you get to the attraction and your FP window is almost up. You need the Rider Swap because by the time the first party leaves the attraction, the FP would no longer be valid for the person who was waiting to go on the ride. Plus, it isn't like you have to immediately ride with the Rider Swap pass- they don't expire at a certain time, so you could go back later in the day to ride again.

One solution for your SM issue would be for you to get to the parks at rope drop and go to SM right away. One of you could ride standby with a very minimal wait and the other could still get the rider swap when the person enters the standby line. You don't 'waste' a FP and you still get the benefit of the rider swap.

They have to find a way to keep the system from being abused or over used (similar to the GAC). THey are just trying to close a loophole that was allowing an unfair advantage

 

[DopeyDame]

The older boys would need a FP for the ride, but they would also get to ride twice, once with the original FP and once with the other parent on the Rider Swap ticket.

They are implementing the "everyone needs a FP" by making everyone scan their band in the FP line PRIOR to giving out the Rider Swap.

Thanks for the clarification. So, in the PP's case, the boys, mom, and dad, would all scan their FP+s. The boys and dad would actually get to use their fastpass to ride the first time. Mom's fastpass becomes a wasted bucket of bytes. Then mom and the boys ride in the second round. Is that correct?

So it sounds like families with little kids and big kids can still get *some* benefit out of the baby swap system, even though little bro is still losing out on a FP+ entirely, and mom's fastpass is actually used for a twice-as-long wait.

It's just families without big kids that have completely lost the babyswap benefit.

 

[wilkeliza]

It sounds like it's two people now - so pick your favorite kid.
And I *think* that the older boys would need a fastpass for the ride anyway, if the first party goes in the FP line, so again - there's really no point at all in even bothering to get a baby swap pass - they've completely eliminated the benefit of baby swap when used in conjunction with FP+.

(I wonder what would happen if you "hid" the older boys when you were getting the baby swap pass - would he be able to go with you on the babyswap pass even though he didn't originally scan his FP+?. Of course, that would mean he wouldn't be in the first party that goes through, so it probably wouldn't help your situation anyway. Just wondering how they are actually implementing this "everyone in your party needs a FP+" crap.)

From what I have seen they ask everyone to come up to the scanner. They ask who is staying behind. The CM has everyone tap the Mickey when they all turn green he/she hands the rider swap to the adult staying behind.

As previously mentioned the card is necessary because say your window is 1pm-2pm. Your party gets there at 1:45pm. The fast pass line take 20 minutes to get through and say your party takes 10 minutes getting back to you due to looking around in the shop etc. Well now you are outside your window. So you go back up try to explain the situation but you quickly realize the CMs have gone through a rotation so now the CM who scanned everyone's bands isn't there and the new CM can only see you scanned your band and the fp is showing as used. So it is up to the CM to either believe you and allow you to enter the queue or having to deny you boarding because they are following rules and from their end it is showing you already entered the queue.

Enter the rider swap card. Your party takes 30 minutes to get back to you and your window has now expired. You approach with your rider swap card no questions are asked you are waved through.

As you can see the card is still in place to prevent any abuse of the system by people trying to get a second ride. I'm sure that abuse didn't happen often but Disney is doing all it can to curb abuse of the fast pass line. They have to ensure the FP wait is shorter than standby or FP+ fails.

 

[DopeyDame]

They are implementing the "everyone needs a FP" by making everyone scan their band in the FP line PRIOR to giving out the Rider Swap.

Right, but how do they define "everyone". If the older boys are off buying ice cream when mom and dad and little kid first go to the ride, they won't even know the older boys exist. Of course, that means the older boys only get to ride once (on the baby swap pass) but then maybe they could use their FP to take little brother on Buzz, instead of little bro totally missing out of a FP entitlement.

 

[wilkeliza]

The passes I received last month all stated they were valid for 3 riders.

I'm starting to think the difference may be rider switch versus rider swap? Rider switch is when a child is tall enough to ride but is too scared to ride or doesn't want to. They are also under the 7 year old requirement to be in the park unattended. The 2 per a rider switch card is only mentioned on that portion of the FAQ. Rider Swap FAQ which is for babies and those too small to actually enter the queue doesn't say how many can use the pass.

 

[GrnMtnMan]

And now there's another thing Universal is doing better than Disney. I really like the system at Universal that has the whole family do things together. And kids get to see the awesome Forbidden Journey queue.

From an Un-official Universal Blog:

All of rides at Universal Studios Florida and Islands of Adventure accommodate a system called Child Swap, also referred to as Kid Swap or Baby Swap. This allows younger guests to skip a ride (either because they are not tall enough or they do not want to go), and gives everyone else in the party an opportunity to ride, without people in the party having to go through the attraction’s queue twice.

Here is an example of how it works: Mom, Dad, Older Brother, and Younger Brother want to go on a ride, but Younger Brother is not tall enough. They all enter the ride queue together and walk to the loading area. Then, Mom and Older Brother go on the ride first while Dad and Younger Brother wait to the side. When the ride is over, Mom and Older Brother wait with Younger Brother while Dad rides. Then everyone exits the attraction together.

To use the system, inform the ride attendant stationed in front of the ride’s entrance that you would like to use Child Swap. It is important to ask before you enter the queue because each ride handles Child Swap a little differently. Some rides have separate rooms, other rides have designated areas, and one or two rides may have a separate line depending on just how busy the parks are when you visit.

 

[PennockFive]

So I have another question then. How does standby work? Do we get a child swap at the beginning or do I have to drag my two little ones through a line?

 

[DopeyDame]

As previously mentioned the card is necessary because say your window is 1pm-2pm. Your party gets there at 1:45pm. The fast pass line take 20 minutes to get through and say your party takes 10 minutes getting back to you due to looking around in the shop etc. Well now you are outside your window. So you go back up try to explain the situation but you quickly realize the CMs have gone through a rotation so now the CM who scanned everyone's bands isn't there and the new CM can only see you scanned your band and the fp is showing as used. So it is up to the CM to either believe you and allow you to enter the queue or having to deny you boarding because they are following rules and from their end it is showing you already entered the queue.

Enter the rider swap card. Your party takes 30 minutes to get back to you and your window has now expired. You approach with your rider swap card no questions are asked you are waved through.

As you can see the card is still in place to prevent any abuse of the system by people trying to get a second ride. I'm sure that abuse didn't happen often but Disney is doing all it can to curb abuse of the fast pass line. They have to ensure the FP wait is shorter than standby or FP+ fails.

That's the most ridiculous "benefit" in the world. The "problem" of running out of a window is easily avoidable by simply having different fastpass plus windows. If we were intent on riding space mountain (and making poor DS miss buzz), we would simply make a fast pass for 12-1 for DH and 1-2 for me.
Not buying for one single second that it's a "benefit" of baby swap that we might run out of a fastpass plus window.

I honestly don't know why Disney did this change. I can't imagine there was a significant amount of "abuse" and it 100% hurts families with small children.

In the past, families with little kids would go to WDW and think "wow - this was awesome and easy and everyone got to ride on the rides they wanted!" and take advantage of the bounce-back offer in their room.

Now the family with little kids will go to WDW and think "this was fun, but there's a lot we missed out on because the kids are too short and there's no effective baby swap option". So when the bounce back flyer shows up, they'll say "eh, let's wait a few years until the kids are all over 44 inches". Of course, by that time, the family now has the tradition of summering in Cape Cod and going on winter vacation in Vail. So instead of a loyal lifetime Disney family, they have a family who may or may not ever come again.
But hey, there are two less "abusers" in the fast pass + line, so it's all worth it.

 

[DopeyDame]

I'm starting to think the difference may be rider switch versus rider swap? Rider switch is when a child is tall enough to ride but is too scared to ride or doesn't want to. They are also under the 7 year old requirement to be in the park unattended. The 2 per a rider switch card is only mentioned on that portion of the FAQ. Rider Swap FAQ which is for babies and those too small to actually enter the queue doesn't say how many can use the pass.

I think you might be on to something, but the website I posted clearly mentions kids who are too small to ride.

 

[lizard1]

And now there's another thing Universal is doing better than Disney. I really like the system at Universal that has the whole family do things together. And kids get to see the awesome Forbidden Journey queue.

From an Un-official Universal Blog:

Disney has this exact same policy when a child does not want to ride. We waited as a family in the line for TOT. They switched us out at the loading zone/exit. This was done because I have 2 kids who are tall enough to ride, but were too scared to ride it again. I like Disney's policy better here, because Universal is letting everyone enter the line, even if they are too short to ride. Disney will not allow someone who is too short to enter the queue. Therefore, from a safety standpoint (from seeing how many people are trying to get their kids to be taller than what they are for the sole purpose of riding a ride), I think Disney's policy is better.

 

[lizard1]

I'm starting to think the difference may be rider switch versus rider swap? Rider switch is when a child is tall enough to ride but is too scared to ride or doesn't want to. They are also under the 7 year old requirement to be in the park unattended. The 2 per a rider switch card is only mentioned on that portion of the FAQ. Rider Swap FAQ which is for babies and those too small to actually enter the queue doesn't say how many can use the pass.

I don't know, because when we did it on TOT we didn't receive any switch card. I rode with my son while my husband and other kids took the elevator to where the ride exits. When I was done riding, I met them at the exit and my husband went with my son back to wherever they were told to go to get on the ride. We didn't try to have him go back on with more than one additional person, though.

 

[DopeyDame]

One solution for your SM issue would be for you to get to the parks at rope drop and go to SM right away. One of you could ride standby with a very minimal wait and the other could still get the rider swap when the person enters the standby line. You don't 'waste' a FP and you still get the benefit of the rider swap.

Yeah, that's definitely an option and we might try that one day. Probably not, though, since we'd rather use the precious rope drop time on something that we can all do and not separate the family the first thing in the morning.

Like I said, it's not going to ruin our trip, but this is a very real change in policy that will have a negative effect on our touring plans. It's a bummer.

 

[wilkeliza]

Yeah, that's definitely an option and we might try that one day. Probably not, though, since we'd rather use the precious rope drop time on something that we can all do and not separate the family the first thing in the morning.

Like I said, it's not going to ruin our trip, but this is a very real change in policy that will have a negative effect on our touring plans. It's a bummer.

Rope time is a great time to get in Buzz. Most families head straight to Fantasyland so Tomorrowland and Adventureland are usually less busy. Then after 3 it is like a massive swap.

 

[lizard1]

Now the family with little kids will go to WDW and think "this was fun, but there's a lot we missed out on because the kids are too short and there's no effective baby swap option". So when the bounce back flyer shows up, they'll say "eh, let's wait a few years until the kids are all over 44 inches". Of course, by that time, the family now has the tradition of summering in Cape Cod and going on winter vacation in Vail. So instead of a loyal lifetime Disney family, they have a family who may or may not ever come again.
But hey, there are two less "abusers" in the fast pass + line, so it's all worth it.

I think when you take a family vacation at many places, there are times when certain members 'miss out' on things. This is not strictly limited to an issue of being too short for rides. For instance, my son had to 'waste' a FP because his sisters wanted to meet A&E and he is still too young to go off and ride something alone. My littlest one had to 'waste' a FP on SM because she is too short and everyone else wanted to ride it. I had to 'waste' a FP on PPF because my kids REALLY wanted to ride it. I think it is all in how you choose to look at it. Sometimes we have to make choices based on the benefit of the group. Sure, my littlest one didn't get to use one of her FP, the one for SM, but by 'wasting' it on that attraction, it saved her from having to wait around doing nothing for at least 60 minutes (the time the standby line would have been). My son 'wasting' his FP on A&E really saved him the 120 minutes of waiting that would have been needed if we would have had to use the standby queue instead.

 

[wilkeliza]

I think when you take a family vacation at many places, there are times when certain members 'miss out' on things. This is not strictly limited to an issue of being too short for rides. For instance, my son had to 'waste' a FP because his sisters wanted to meet A&E and he is still too young to go off and ride something alone. My littlest one had to 'waste' a FP on SM because she is too short and everyone else wanted to ride it. I had to 'waste' a FP on PPF because my kids REALLY wanted to ride it. I think it is all in how you choose to look at it. Sometimes we have to make choices based on the benefit of the group. Sure, my littlest one didn't get to use one of her FP, the one for SM, but by 'wasting' it on that attraction, it saved her from having to wait around doing nothing for at least 60 minutes (the time the standby line would have been). My son 'wasting' his FP on A&E really saved him the 120 minutes of waiting that would have been needed if we would have had to use the standby queue instead.

I think you hit the nail on the head. If you have multiple kids why not let each one (assuming there are 3 or less) choose a ride they really want to do. This works great at MK and AK where there is no tier. At Epcot and DHS just make the older two agree on the tier 1 ride and use tier 2 and 3 for the little one. That is what we did on our original trip with fp+ and kids of different sizes. It worked out well. If someone was left out we reminded them it wasn't their ride and we would be doing theirs at x time. The big kids sure didn't want to do Dumbo but they had to do it because that is what their 2 year old brother wanted. When Space Mountain was the choice for one of the bigger kids we scheduled it for the 2 year olds nap time which was about noon to one. Luckily his sister was amazing and choose to do something the whole family would enjoy.

Also for 7DMT plan on taking him to the carousel or if you are swapping SM go see what the wait is for Buzz standby or do Monsters Inc. Laugh Floor or plan the FP for a time that the Incredibles Dance Party is going on. It will allow the little one to do something while you wait. The rider swap card doesn't' expire until the end of the day so if Buzz is 30 minutes you would be able to go do that with the little one and meet back up after Buzz to swap with you SM group.

 

[DopeyDame]

I think when you take a family vacation at many places, there are times when certain members 'miss out' on things. This is not strictly limited to an issue of being too short for rides. For instance, my son had to 'waste' a FP because his sisters wanted to meet A&E and he is still too young to go off and ride something alone. My littlest one had to 'waste' a FP on SM because she is too short and everyone else wanted to ride it. I had to 'waste' a FP on PPF because my kids REALLY wanted to ride it. I think it is all in how you choose to look at it. Sometimes we have to make choices based on the benefit of the group. Sure, my littlest one didn't get to use one of her FP, the one for SM, but by 'wasting' it on that attraction, it saved her from having to wait around doing nothing for at least 60 minutes (the time the standby line would have been). My son 'wasting' his FP on A&E really saved him the 120 minutes of waiting that would have been needed if we would have had to use the standby queue instead.

Absolutely it's true that on family vacations certain members have to miss things. It's the primary reason my family has been going to Walt Disney World for 30+ years - because in the past Disney has been great about minimizing the "missing things" for most of the family most of the time. Far better than other amusement parks. So now that I have kids of my own, my instinct is for a lot (but not all, of course) of our family vacations while they are still young would be to a place that minimizes the "missing" and maximizes the opportunities for everyone to do things together. Disney was the absolute #1 with that. Now that they've changed the policy, they are more in line with Universal, Six Flags, and the beach at Martha's Vineyard. (And the ski resorts who let kids 5 and under ski for free are WAY ahead of Disney now.)
So we'll be exploring more options.
We have a trip in Sept (which is what prompted all this to begin with) with just our immediate family. We'll be on site and will be all-Disney. In January, we're going with a larger group and staying off stie. For the first time, I'm starting to think that we'll take some of those days at Lego and Universal.

 

[PennockFive]

I understand the change, but wish there was more notice given. If I wasn't on this board I would have no idea. The whole FP+ system is relatively new to begin with. I spent so much thought into my plans I would have done it much differently had I known. They could have sent out an email, or phased in the new regulations. The website isn't very clear on the policy either.