FOTL/EE versus Cost

[skier_pete]

Hey there,

Frequent Disney goer, but been YEARS since we've gone to Universal (15 to be exact). Mostly because our DD12 is totally NOT a thrill rider. While she'll do Big Thunder Mountain, she HATES Space Mountain, and won't try the other thrillers at Disney. However, she has discovered Harry Potter and wants to go to Universal. I told her this past trip if she rides Expedition Everest and Dinosaur, then next trip we can go to Universal. She rode them, but she didn't actually SEE either ride because she kept her eyes closed the entire time. I keep saying how is she going to enjoy Universal if she has her eyes closed the whole time, but she insists she wants to go.

Here's my question - if we were to go in early December of 2016, how critical would it be for us to stay at Universal for front of the line / early entry? Can we get away with just being day visitors at Universal and still see everything over a 3-day period?

See, I am a DVC owner, and as far as I am concerned, our hotel at Disney is already paid for. If we move over to Universal for two nights at the end of the trip - and get a 3 day ticket which would include our last day - so say give us 2.5 days at Universal with the last two days early entry, I figure it would add around $1400 to the cost of our trip.

I am very concerned that I will spend a ton of money to do this - and when we get there - DD will pretty much REFUSE to ride anything except the Harry Potter stuff and maybe Despicable Me and Seuss Landing. Even I wonder if once she rides one of the HP rides she maybe won't ride the other. And if I spend an extra $1400 on this vacation for her to refuse to ride most rides - will I be so grumpy that I will be miserable too?

My alternative would be to stay at our DVC hotel and rent a car for a few days, and travel over to Universal. We can get discount tickets through work that would run me about $650 for three 4-day (buy 2 days get 2 free) tickets - at least at current prices. A rental car for 3 days might go another $150 and then I have to pay for parking, but I'm still looking at saving maybe $400-$600 by staying at Disney property and travelling over, versus staying at Universal.

So, back to my question - anyone experience Universal in early December? Are the crowds low enough that the FOTL and EE isn't that huge an advantage? That would be the ONLY conceivable reason to stay at Universal.

{Also note, we will likely NOT be waiting in line for any of the roller coasters - unless I were to do it alone - and I'm also guessing that once she rides the actual Harry Potter rides, she will NOT want to ride them more than once. (This is what happened at DLR - she so much wanted to ride Indiana Jones because she loves the stunt show - then once she rode it she wouldn't go near it.) I'm guessing she might not ride the mummy either. My thought is if we just drive over, if she ends up loving it - we could go for the 3rd or even 4th days to Universal - but if she doesn't like anything, we could just spend the 2 days there - and spend the rest of our time at Disney. If she ends up absolutely loving it, we could save up for a future trip to stay at Universal.}

Thanks for reading - and I appreciate any advice you are willing to give.

 

[snoopboop]

How about you compromise and get ONE night onsite, which would give you TWO DAYS of Unlimited Express passes?

From my point of view (and based on my past experiences), I won't ever stay offsite again. The Unlimited Express is worth its weight in gold ANY time of year. Of course it's especially luxurious in the busy seasons, but even when we go during slower times, I still appreciate so very much the ability to bypass the standby lines. I'm paying a lot of money to go to the parks... I want to make the best possible use of every minute!

One of my kiddos sounds just like your daughter. I haven't taken her to the parks yet, but I have the same fears that you do about taking your daughter. I wish you the very best of luck.

 

[VacaPlanner2012]

I agree with PP as we love to stay onsite, however, I did a Wednesday to Sunday in early December 2013 on site, and you could easily do it without Express. Especially if you are unsure about how many rides you will take in. It is an awesome time to visit, Grinchmas is fantastic, book a character breakfast with the Grinch. Spend your money on that stuff, and if she decides she is a rider all of a sudden, you can add Express for a day at a portion of that cost. We loved having Express as my kids are daredevils, we could ride in the am, then catch a car over to Mickey's Christmas or Sea World Christmas in the pm.

No matter what, great time of year, holiday season is getting into full swing, and she may become a UNI lover!!!

 

[johde]

If she's scared of thrill rides, I'd do Escape From Gringotts in Diagon Alley before Forbidden Journey in Hogsmead. If she can handle BTMRR she should be able to do Gringotts no problem. Forbidden Journey is unlike any ride at Disney. It's the Kuka arms like Sum of All thrill but they move on a track between wrap around screens and dark ride sections. I enjoy the ride, but I need to close my eyes during the flying portions with the screens.

 

[RMulieri]

I wouldnt stress so much about DD..December 2016 is a long way off yet and she might surprise you.Mine is timid and she changed dramatically from one year to the next at universal.That said, it is doable without express( though one of the greatest things is the closeness of the resorts and the express pass.For us it is worth it any time of year and the only way we will go). Keep in mind that the Harry Potter areas are always the busiest sections of the park and other than 2 rides ( Flight of the hippogriff and Dragon challenge ) you cant use the express pass there. I will say that despicable me tends to have very long lines even with express, so you will need to plan your day..

 

[HM]

You can totally do the parks without Express, especially if you plan on three days in the parks.
We did it in July and I've done it during Spring Break in the past.

DD and I are going in early December this year and staying offsite with no plans for buys EPs.

 

[chelynnah]

I am no expert by far, but if you already have your Disney property paid for wouldn't it be cheaper to stay where you are and just buy the Universal Entry Tickets and then add the Express Pass to them if needed rather than add another £1400 in accomodation (yes I know that would include park tickets)? I understand you would be missing the Early Hours, but others have already said early December is relatively quiet. If you download the Universal App and keep an eye on it over the period this year that you'll be going next year you can see real time wait times and that could help you judge if it's worth the extra money.

OTOH if you can afford it and want the experience of the on-site hotel that's a different story and definitely go for it. I'm sure it's amazing

 

[snoopboop]

I am no expert by far, but if you already have your Disney property paid for wouldn't it be cheaper to stay where you are and just buy the Universal Entry Tickets and then add the Express Pass to them if needed rather than add another £1400 in accomodation (yes I know that would include park tickets)? I understand you would be missing the Early Hours, but others have already said early December is relatively quiet. If you download the Universal App and keep an eye on it over the period this year that you'll be going next year you can see real time wait times and that could help you judge if it's worth the extra money.

OTOH if you can afford it and want the experience of the on-site hotel that's a different story and definitely go for it. I'm sure it's amazing

It's worth noting that ONE night at the hotel gets you TWO days of EP. Buying the EP à la carte at the park will only get you ONE day.

 

[chelynnah]

It's worth noting that ONE night at the hotel gets you TWO days of EP. Buying the EP à la carte at the park will only get you ONE day.

Ahh, true See said I wasn't an expert

 

[skier_pete]

How about you compromise and get ONE night onsite, which would give you TWO DAYS of Unlimited Express passes?

From my point of view (and based on my past experiences), I won't ever stay offsite again. The Unlimited Express is worth its weight in gold ANY time of year. Of course it's especially luxurious in the busy seasons, but even when we go during slower times, I still appreciate so very much the ability to bypass the standby lines. I'm paying a lot of money to go to the parks... I want to make the best possible use of every minute!

One of my kiddos sounds just like your daughter. I haven't taken her to the parks yet, but I have the same fears that you do about taking your daughter. I wish you the very best of luck.

Well, I considered the ONE night option, but unless we do it in the middle of our stay (which seems like a pain) we would end up with only 1 full day, and then on the 2nd day however much time we have before our flight. And it doesn't save much money, since a two-day park ticket and a three-day park ticket are about the same, we only save about $300 for the one night hotel room. ($950 for one night versus $1250 for two nights).

I agree with PP as we love to stay onsite, however, I did a Wednesday to Sunday in early December 2013 on site, and you could easily do it without Express. Especially if you are unsure about how many rides you will take in. It is an awesome time to visit, Grinchmas is fantastic, book a character breakfast with the Grinch. Spend your money on that stuff, and if she decides she is a rider all of a sudden, you can add Express for a day at a portion of that cost. We loved having Express as my kids are daredevils, we could ride in the am, then catch a car over to Mickey's Christmas or Sea World Christmas in the pm.

No matter what, great time of year, holiday season is getting into full swing, and she may become a UNI lover!!!

I definitely want to take in the Grinchmas show. We are big Dr. Suess fans in our house. (I grew up near Springfield, MA - which is where Dr. Suess was from. I've even been to THE Mulberry Street. (As in "And to think that I saw it on Mulberry Street")

If she's scared of thrill rides, I'd do Escape From Gringotts in Diagon Alley before Forbidden Journey in Hogsmead. If she can handle BTMRR she should be able to do Gringotts no problem. Forbidden Journey is unlike any ride at Disney. It's the Kuka arms like Sum of All thrill but they move on a track between wrap around screens and dark ride sections. I enjoy the ride, but I need to close my eyes during the flying portions with the screens.

I was thinking that as well. I was leaning towards doing Harry Potter world in "Harry Potter" order. In other words, show up at Diagon Alley first, see that, then take the train to Hogwarts and do that stuff. (Can I say how much Universal creating a rides that REQUIRES spending a lot of extra $$$ to buy the 2-park ticket just disgusts me in so many ways. It really turns me off to them as a park, but I do want to see it.

I wouldnt stress so much about DD..December 2016 is a long way off yet and she might surprise you.Mine is timid and she changed dramatically from one year to the next at universal.That said, it is doable without express( though one of the greatest things is the closeness of the resorts and the express pass.For us it is worth it any time of year and the only way we will go). Keep in mind that the Harry Potter areas are always the busiest sections of the park and other than 2 rides ( Flight of the hippogriff and Dragon challenge ) you cant use the express pass there. I will say that despicable me tends to have very long lines even with express, so you will need to plan your day..

I keep expecting her to get into rides - but I don't think it's going to happen. This summer she went with some friends and tried the roller coaster at our local theme park. She hated it and wouldn't do it again. I can almost guarantee she won't try any of the coasters at Universal. She doesn't even like 3D things. (We have to force her to sit through Philharmagic, though she likes Star Tours.)

You can totally do the parks without Express, especially if you plan on three days in the parks.
We did it in July and I've done it during Spring Break in the past.

DD and I are going in early December this year and staying offsite with no plans for buys EPs.

That's my thought - if we give ourselves enough time, I keep thinking we can have a good time without it. I know that when we go to Disney at slow times, I have my FP all planned and then find myself skipping lines that are 10 minutes long. I imagine that would irritate me as well if the standby waits are short and I paid all this extra for FotL

I am no expert by far, but if you already have your Disney property paid for wouldn't it be cheaper to stay where you are and just buy the Universal Entry Tickets and then add the Express Pass to them if needed rather than add another £1400 in accomodation (yes I know that would include park tickets)? I understand you would be missing the Early Hours, but others have already said early December is relatively quiet. If you download the Universal App and keep an eye on it over the period this year that you'll be going next year you can see real time wait times and that could help you judge if it's worth the extra money.

OTOH if you can afford it and want the experience of the on-site hotel that's a different story and definitely go for it. I'm sure it's amazing

I thought about that, but adding the express pass onto 3 days of tickets is like $400!!! It's barely difference to take the local hotel, so it doesn't seem like that would be a great option.

It's worth noting that ONE night at the hotel gets you TWO days of EP. Buying the EP à la carte at the park will only get you ONE day.

Right - and it is something to consider. But again, do we check out in the middle of the trip to move over to Universal so we can get two full days? I just don't know!

Lots to think about. I appreciate all the comments for sure!

 

[HM]

Quoting you---
A> That's my thought - if we give ourselves enough time, I keep thinking we can have a good time without it. I know that when we go to Disney at slow times, I have my FP all planned and then find myself skipping lines that are 10 minutes long. I imagine that would irritate me as well if the standby waits are short and I paid all this extra for FotL

B> Right - and it is something to consider. But again, do we check out in the middle of the trip to move over to Universal so we can get two full days? I just don't know!


Replying---
A> You can always not buy EP and see how it goes. If you get there and one day things are awfully crowded, opt for buying the EP for that particular day right there in the park.

B> You don't have to check out of the place you have booked for the week, just keep it for that night too, and move over to Universal with some of your stuff and then move back when you are done.

 

[Lisa0620]

I would stay at your dvc and maybe do one day onsite for 2 days express. We are a family of older kid ride wimps and it does really limit what you can do there. The "easy" rides have a very juvenile theme, there's not really POC type rides that are "easy" but with broader appeal. It helps that you are interested in Seussland, my kids thought they were too old for those rides (? Never!) My older son will ride space mtn and he was terrified on the Mummy and Forbidden Journey. We liked Escape from Gringotts, but it was more intense than I expected and my kids didn't want to ride a second time. They are not huge Potterheads, though. We loved the laid back pace of Universal and are planning to go back, but we will combine the trip with Disney or other parks because without being able to do the coasters, there wasn't enough variety to keep us interested for the 4 park days we had.

Well, I considered the ONE night option, but unless we do it in the middle of our stay (which seems like a pain) we would end up with only 1 full day, and then on the 2nd day however much time we have before our flight. And it doesn't save much money, since a two-day park ticket and a three-day park ticket are about the same, we only save about $300 for the one night hotel room. ($950 for one night versus $1250 for two nights).

I think I would double book as the PP suggested. Use the room for a late afternoon siesta, but you don't necessarily have to stay there. Depending on your party size can be cheaper than express for 2 days.

 

[johde]

I was thinking that as well. I was leaning towards doing Harry Potter world in "Harry Potter" order. In other words, show up at Diagon Alley first, see that, then take the train to Hogwarts and do that stuff. (Can I say how much Universal creating a rides that REQUIRES spending a lot of extra $$$ to buy the 2-park ticket just disgusts me in so many ways. It really turns me off to them as a park, but I do want to see it.

One word of warning, If you're trying to do things in "Harry Potter" order, you'd save Escape From Gringotts until last. That ride more than anything else in the WWOHP is firmly entrenched in book 7. Most of the rest of of the WWOHP is much more timeless. Forbidden Journey has snippets from several of the earlier books. The Theming of Dragon Challenge is mostly book 4.

With the Hogwarts Express I can't think of a good way of doing it that doesn't involve needing a park to park ticket. With the Hogwarts Express, you are going from the middle/back of one park to the middle/back of the other park. The ride is busy enough that allowing riders to stay on isn't an option. Even if it was an option, you'd need to check ticket upon exiting the ride. That would potentially require people to stand in line twice. Once for the ride and once to get into the other park.

Looking at it from the reverse perspective. At Disneyland, I would like the monorail to have a stop and California Adventure as well as Disneyland. You board the monorail at Disneyland then you ride through Disney's California Adventure before stopping in the middle of Downtown Disney. A DCA stop would be great for park hopping. You could go straight from Tomorrowland in Disneyland straight to Grizzly Peak in DCA. But, that would require all monorail riders to have a park hopper ticket. Since, unlike WDW everyone needs a ticket to ride the monorail. Instead, you need to walk through Downtown Disney and back through bag check (or walk through Tomorrowland, down Main Street, and across the esplanade) to get to DCA.

 

[skier_pete]

One word of warning, If you're trying to do things in "Harry Potter" order, you'd save Escape From Gringotts until last. That ride more than anything else in the WWOHP is firmly entrenched in book 7. Most of the rest of of the WWOHP is much more timeless. Forbidden Journey has snippets from several of the earlier books. The Theming of Dragon Challenge is mostly book 4.

Yeah - I know that it's Book 4 - but I was more talking about the overall experience of moving from Diagon Alley to Hogwarts...seemed to me more like a true experience than the reverse.

With the Hogwarts Express I can't think of a good way of doing it that doesn't involve needing a park to park ticket. With the Hogwarts Express, you are going from the middle/back of one park to the middle/back of the other park. The ride is busy enough that allowing riders to stay on isn't an option. Even if it was an option, you'd need to check ticket upon exiting the ride. That would potentially require people to stand in line twice. Once for the ride and once to get into the other park.

Oh I understand that...it's just that Building the ride / Diagon Alley as they did in Unversal was clearly done as a bottom line raising move. Not only boosting interest in both parks, but forcing die-hard fans to by 2-park tickets that they might otherwise not by.

I had a friend that recently spent 2 days at Universal with his family as part of a Florida trip. They were big Harry Potter fans, but he doesn't have a lot of money (didn't stay on-site either), and couldn't justify the near $200 extra money that the 2-park, 2-day tickets cost just to ride that one ride. Therefore, they had to skip it to the kids disappointment.

I'm just saying - it's a money-grubbing business move that if Disney had tried to pull something similar they would have been raked over the coals for it by the on-line community. Perhaps I'm late to the party because I don't really hang on the Universal board, and perhaps Universal got a ton of criticism right from the start and I missed it. But I thought it from the moment they announced it. A 25 % ticket price increase for one ride. I already loathe that I'm going to pay for it.

Looking at it from the reverse perspective. At Disneyland, I would like the monorail to have a stop and California Adventure as well as Disneyland. You board the monorail at Disneyland then you ride through Disney's California Adventure before stopping in the middle of Downtown Disney. A DCA stop would be great for park hopping. You could go straight from Tomorrowland in Disneyland straight to Grizzly Peak in DCA. But, that would require all monorail riders to have a park hopper ticket. Since, unlike WDW everyone needs a ticket to ride the monorail. Instead, you need to walk through Downtown Disney and back through bag check (or walk through Tomorrowland, down Main Street, and across the esplanade) to get to DCA.

But there's a big difference. The monorail - though technically a "ride" by DLR standards, is really just a form of transportation. You can choose not to ride it, and you really don't miss a lot. Heck, you can choose not to get off it, and NOT go back through the bag check.

Universal didn't build Hogwart's express as a transport (though it does that), they built it as an attraction.

And even the monorail - if it stopped in DCA - could've been set up to allow people to stay on. If they were thinking of their customers, Universal could've decided to design the Hogwarts express so you could just get back on without having to buy a park hopper. But they chose not to - on purpose they decided to create something that requires an extra ticket to ride, simply to increase the revenue stream. It's low.

(I also dislike the Universal "pay cash for FOTL" policy for the same reason. And just to be fair, I have a disdain for the hard ticket events at WDW and "desert parties" as well. I am not a big fan of park hoppers at WDW either, but have on occasion paid for them. Just in general I think it is slimy to make people pay MORE for the SAME entertainment.)

OK - rant over.

 

[cemeb4dk]

We are like you but hitting up UNiversal in about 20 days. We have our room booked thru DVC as we are members also. Now my daughter likes thrill rides, so I know she will enjoy the parks. In October the hours are shorter due to Horror nights, so I needed to get the most out of our 2 days there. So after crunching the numbers, 2 days of round trip taxis, or rental car and 2 days of parking, and the headache of the back and forth and the cost of buying the unlimited passes. It was cheaper for us to do a 1 night stay at the hardrock hotel. Yes we are burning a night of DVC points, but this way we can leave our luggage and stuff in our disney room and just bring an overnight bag to Universal, enjoy 2 days of parks with the unlimited express pass, relax at the pool at night, enjoy the city walk, sleep in a bit more the next morning. It will also give us a feel of what it is like to stay on site for future trip planning.

 

[skier_pete]

We are like you but hitting up UNiversal in about 20 days. We have our room booked thru DVC as we are members also. Now my daughter likes thrill rides, so I know she will enjoy the parks. In October the hours are shorter due to Horror nights, so I needed to get the most out of our 2 days there. So after crunching the numbers, 2 days of round trip taxis, or rental car and 2 days of parking, and the headache of the back and forth and the cost of buying the unlimited passes. It was cheaper for us to do a 1 night stay at the hardrock hotel. Yes we are burning a night of DVC points, but this way we can leave our luggage and stuff in our disney room and just bring an overnight bag to Universal, enjoy 2 days of parks with the unlimited express pass, relax at the pool at night, enjoy the city walk, sleep in a bit more the next morning. It will also give us a feel of what it is like to stay on site for future trip planning.

Definitely an option - I am considering a AKV Value stay. That can be as low as 9 points a night.

It feels like there are several options and none of them stand out as great.