Fort Wilderness vs Poly

[KANSAS]

What are the advantages and disadvantages of purchasing Cooper Creek Points vs Polynesian Points?

Cooper Creek has studios, one bedrooms, two bedrooms and grand villas
Poly only has studios

Copper Creek has points charts more attractive for studios than Poly

poly annual dues are less Copper Creek

Please help me with other thoughts on Copper Creek vs Poly?

 

[1momof3boys3]

In my opinion, I think it would depend on the size of your family/travel party. I LOVE Poly, but we have a large family and we need the one or two bedrooms, so Poly doesn't really work for us. =/ Good luck with the decision process!

 

[_auroraborealis_]

Poly dues may catch up, if the reason for high dues at CCV was in fact property taxes.

 

[Dean]

What are the advantages and disadvantages of purchasing Cooper Creek Points vs Polynesian Points?

Cooper Creek has studios, one bedrooms, two bedrooms and grand villas
Poly only has studios

Copper Creek has points charts more attractive for studios than Poly

poly annual dues are less Copper Creek

Please help me with other thoughts on Copper Creek vs Poly?

Between the 2 I'd go with CCV but it does depend on your personal preferences and whether a studio will work well for you. Too bad they didn't expand the kitchen options at Poly, they could have easily done so.

 

[Capang]

What are the advantages and disadvantages of purchasing Cooper Creek Points vs Polynesian Points?

Cooper Creek has studios, one bedrooms, two bedrooms and grand villas
Poly only has studios

Copper Creek has points charts more attractive for studios than Poly

poly annual dues are less Copper Creek

Please help me with other thoughts on Copper Creek vs Poly?

Look a how many people you will be traveling with. CCV has more options for larger families. Also, you realize CCV is at Wilderness Lodge, not Fort Wilderness as your title suggests? I believe that the dues at other DVCs will catch up as there is a big issue with the property taxes.

 

[AmyAnne]

I believe that the dues at other DVCs will catch up as there is a big issue with the property taxes.

Can you say more about this? Which resorts are likely to increase dues because of property taxes?

 

[disneynutz]

Can you say more about this? Which resorts are likely to increase dues because of property taxes?

All of them, expect a dues increase higher than in the past.

Bill

 

[_auroraborealis_]

Can you say more about this? Which resorts are likely to increase dues because of property taxes?

All of them on WDW property.

Real estate taxes represent 20-30% of your dues. The Orange County appraiser determines property assessments. The prior Orange County Appraiser was willing to negotiate with Disney to avoid lawsuits and challenges. The current appraiser is now in his second term, and he says ALL of Disney is appraised badly/stupidly. The whole of Magic Kingdom is appraised at a lower value than the Dr. Phillips Performing Arts Center. This is obviously ridiculous based on both land acreage and improvements; it is nearly impossible for any human of sense to grant him his point on some of this.

Disney is challenging their 2016 assessments in court. Rather than negotiating an out of court settlement like his predecessors, the new Appraiser is saying "bring it." If Orange County wins, the appraisal on EVERY Disney resort is going to increase rapidly. That will show in dues.

 

[Capang]

Can you say more about this? Which resorts are likely to increase dues because of property taxes?

There has been talk of it here on the boards as well as in some local news in FL. There is a dispute about the value of the property, in the past it seems the property was undervalued or given some breaks and the tax assessor is not giving those same breaks/rates. They will probably all increase, as @disneynutz said, by a bigger jump than in the past.

 

[_auroraborealis_]

http://www.floridasalestax.com/Flor...lt-Disney-Wants-to-Pay-Less-Property-Tax.aspx has the 2015 Just Values vs. Appraised Values. You can see the separation between them for most resorts. Orange County wants to bring them closer together.

 

[Dean]

Can you say more about this? Which resorts are likely to increase dues because of property taxes?

Independent of the tax appraisal issue, new resorts tend to start lower and increase. BLT has now matched SSR as it's increased faster. VWL is not that far behind CCV but hopefully CCV is at lower risk because they've built in this issue to a degree, I can't say about that but one can hope that's the case.

 

[Denise W]

What are the advantages and disadvantages of purchasing Cooper Creek Points vs Polynesian Points?

Cooper Creek has studios, one bedrooms, two bedrooms and grand villas
Poly only has studios

Copper Creek has points charts more attractive for studios than Poly

poly annual dues are less Copper Creek

Please help me with other thoughts on Copper Creek vs Poly?

It is *Copper* Creek, and is at the Wilderness Lodge, not Fort Wilderness. You might want to correct your title.
Denise

 

[CarolMN]

Part of the reason the property taxes are going up so much for the Disney resorts is that the Assessor changed the basis for calculating the property taxes. He is now including the revenue the hotels/resorts produce in the formula. Disney already pays state & county taxes on that revenue, so it seems to me that to include it in the formula is double taxation. I'm sure that is part of the reason the issue is headed for the courts.

 

[Spork24]

Part of the reason the property taxes are going up so much for the Disney resorts is that the Assessor changed the basis for calculating the property taxes. He is now including the revenue the hotels/resorts produce in the formula. Disney already pays state & county taxes on that revenue, so it seems to me that to include it in the formula is double taxation. I'm sure that is part of the reason the issue is headed for the courts.

Unfortunately double taxation is allowed. Income tax and sales tax are both applied to the monthly cash flow of the average American household.

I'm all for making Disney and this dvc oh their fair share of taxes, but I don't want them (and by proxy me) to be treated unfairly either.

 

[Spork24]

To me the value of a dvc property should be easy to calculate.

Average PPP of sales the previous year times the total number of points represented at full occupancy.
If FL taxes at some assessed value that is less than real value as PP mentioned, then you should have a multiplier that you use countywide to determine the assessed value.

Anything higher than that based on revenue would be unfair.

 

[mustinjourney]

All of them on WDW property.

Real estate taxes represent 20-30% of your dues. The Orange County appraiser determines property assessments. The prior Orange County Appraiser was willing to negotiate with Disney to avoid lawsuits and challenges. The current appraiser is now in his second term, and he says ALL of Disney is appraised badly/stupidly. The whole of Magic Kingdom is appraised at a lower value than the Dr. Phillips Performing Arts Center. This is obviously ridiculous based on both land acreage and improvements; it is nearly impossible for any human of sense to grant him his point on some of this.

Disney is challenging their 2016 assessments in court. Rather than negotiating an out of court settlement like his predecessors, the new Appraiser is saying "bring it." If Orange County wins, the appraisal on EVERY Disney resort is going to increase rapidly. That will show in dues.

I'm no tax expert -- but shouldn't property tax be evaluated on the value of the land itself and not the goodwill associated with the company that owns that land?

If Disney decided to sell all of that land without giving any rights to the underlying intellectual property, then the value would be not that great. I'm actually really curious to see how this shakes out.

 

[mustinjourney]

What are the advantages and disadvantages of purchasing Cooper Creek Points vs Polynesian Points?

Cooper Creek has studios, one bedrooms, two bedrooms and grand villas
Poly only has studios

Copper Creek has points charts more attractive for studios than Poly

poly annual dues are less Copper Creek

Please help me with other thoughts on Copper Creek vs Poly?

don't forget location location location.

Poly is the better location in that you have two monorail options to the magic kingdom (resort or walk to TTC and ride express) as well as two boats (resort or TTC). You can also walk to TTC and ride monorail to epcot, so from that standpoint, getting to/from MK and epcot is much easier. Plus you can easily resort hop b/t VGF and contemporary.

If location isn't an issue, then theming becomes important. That is a matter of personal taste. Personally, CCV wins on this, since Poly reminds me too much of the Brady Bunch goes to Hawaii and the 70s.

Lastly, room options. Poly only has studios and the 2 bedroom bungalows...which are impractical for 90% of us. CCV has studios, 1 BR, 2 BR, GVs and cabins, so you have way more options on that route. CCV is the winner here if you don't want to always do studios.

 

[_auroraborealis_]

Part of land value is also improvement. So an apartment building appraises higher than a parking lot.

How do you measure value of improvements?

I'm no tax expert -- but shouldn't property tax be evaluated on the value of the land itself and not the goodwill associated with the company that owns that land?

If Disney decided to sell all of that land without giving any rights to the underlying intellectual property, then the value would be not that great. I'm actually really curious to see how this shakes out.

 

[mustinjourney]

Part of land value is also improvement. So an apartment building appraises higher than a parking lot.

How do you measure value of improvements?

This is actually an interesting topic to me. I have done zero research on it -- but it does seem to be a hard thing to do. The whole reason the land in that area is more valuable is because of Disney World. But that value is really associated with the goodwill of the products and services. For example, if Disney sold the land and buildings to six flags, but did not include the underlying IP (characters and theming), then six flags would not be able to charge nearly the amount that Disney is able to charge for the same exact rides/food/hotels even though none of the hard goods changed. With residential houses, it is much easier to assign a value to a house since there is an open market and there are a lot of comps -- but with amusement parks, you really don't have a large number of transactions to compare.

To answer your question -- I would think the value of the improvements would be the cost to build -- perhaps also allowing for yearly depreciation? But how do you also value the land? Do you just assume it's the same value as the parcels outside of WDW?

 

[_auroraborealis_]

Yep, that's part of what is being litigated right now. Right now, there's a big gap between appraised value and taxable value for many parcels, and the comparison with other parcels in Orange County is challenging. OC may not get the full value they're seeking right now, but I do think there will be a big jump in taxable value. In general, the use a piece of land is put to has always been a part of determination in almost every major jurisdiction. Valuation can (and often does) change as use changes. That SuperFund site gets cleaned up and gets used for housing? Big jump in tax valued rate. A strip mall blows up because of a meth lab? Valuation dives.

I think the litigation will land with taxable value considerably higher, but not as high as current appraiser wants, and possibly phased in over 5-10 years.