Fort Wilderness: How much longer do we have it?

[BusterBluth]

With Disney moving to optimize their resort and increase utilization, we're seeing Tom Sawyer and the Rivers of America go away next year. Given this, I wonder if the company can continue to justify a low density/low revenue/high value property like Fort Wilderness. Aren't they building a new resort right next to the Wilderness Lodge?

Hopefully my thinking is incorrect, but it's easy to envision campground loops for tents & RVs turning into more lucrative cabins, or disappearing altogether, gobbled up by another deluxe resort.

 

[fla4fun]

With Disney moving to optimize their resort and increase utilization, we're seeing Tom Sawyer and the Rivers of America go away next year. Given this, I wonder if the company can continue to justify a low density/low revenue/high value property like Fort Wilderness. Aren't they building a new resort right next to the Wilderness Lodge?

Hopefully my thinking is incorrect, but it's easy to envision campground loops for tents & RVs turning into more lucrative cabins, or disappearing altogether, gobbled up by another deluxe resort.

I thought Reflections was located adjacent to FW, not WL. Although there are signs work may begin again, I haven’t seen any announcements yet. I am sure it’s just a matter of time.

I suppose a lot will depend on how popular the new DVC cabins are and how fast they sell. It would cost more money to upgrade the infrastructure in the regular campsites than it did where the old cabins stood, but if sales go well for the new DVC cabins, I could see them putting more of them in the regular camping loops. I like FW, and didn’t even like the idea of Reflections being so close. I think DVC will change the ambience for sure.

 

[Teamubr]

This comes up occasionally on the camping forum. I'm pretty confident the Fort will be staying for a while.

Some argue that a "campground" was one of Walt's original plans for WDW and use that as rationale for it staying. That is true, but hasn't protected other "originals". The more current evidence is that all 300+ cabins are currently being replaced and turned into a DVC cabin resort. They wouldn't be doing that and adding to the infrastructure if there was any near/intermediate term plans to bulldoze the place.

While the Fort does take up a fair amount of land, it has relatively low overhead compared to a traditional resort and still generates a fairly significant revenue stream for that low overhead.

As for R**********, the started and then stopped DVC Resort. It is literally butting right behind the Settlement area of the Fort where Hoop-Dee-Do, Trails End and Crockett's Tavern are. Original plans showed over the water cabins all the way down Clementine's Beach. Clementines's was moved to the other side (original side) of the Fort boatdock when construction was ongoing and the boat rentals that were on that side were stopped and removed to make room. Later plans do not show the over the water cabins extending down that far, but can always be added back in.

No official announcement has been made regarding restarting the resort construction, but several of us that are following it closely have noted new permits that indicate they will pick up in the short term. Other "improvements" have continued ("CM" parking lot that fits the original plans for the new resort parking lot)

The plans below were some of the earlier ones. The red is the foot print of the resort. Blue are the over the water cabins. The ones at the top are where Clementine's Beach and the boat rentals were. The green are the existing Fort buildings that make up Hood-Dee-Do, Trails End and Crockett's Tavern. In the very bottom right corner show a few of the sites in the 700 loop.



This aerial is from a few years ago before the new parking lot was added close to the one in C-108/109 above.

Trails End is noted. The circular roads to the left of TE is R********** construction. Wilderness Lodge is all the way to the far left. Wilderness Lodge is actually quite a bit closer to the Contemporary than the paused DVC.



j

 

[team bradfield]

@ busterbluth your statement "Hopefully my thinking is incorrect" is indeed correct, FW is here to stay (hopefully)

 

[team bradfield]

This comes up occasionally on the camping forum. I'm pretty confident the Fort will be staying for a while.

Some argue that a "campground" was one of Walt's original plans for WDW and use that as rationale for it staying. That is true, but hasn't protected other "originals". The more current evidence is that all 300+ cabins are currently being replaced and turned into a DVC cabin resort. They wouldn't be doing that and adding to the infrastructure if there was any near/intermediate term plans to bulldoze the place.

While the Fort does take up a fair amount of land, it has relatively low overhead compared to a traditional resort and still generates a fairly significant revenue stream for that low overhead.

As for R**********, the started and then stopped DVC Resort. It is literally butting right behind the Settlement area of the Fort where Hoop-Dee-Do, Trails End and Crockett's Tavern are. Original plans showed over the water cabins all the way down Clementine's Beach. Clementines's was moved to the other side (original side) of the Fort boatdock when construction was ongoing and the boat rentals that were on that said were stopped and removed to make room. Later plans do not show the over the water cabins extending down that far, but can always be added back in.

No official announcement has been made regarding restarting the resort construction, but several of us that are following it closely have noted new permits that indicate they will pick up in the short term. Other "improvements" have continued ("CM" parking lot that fits the original plans for the new resort parking lot)

The plans below were some of the earlier ones. The red is the foot print of the resort. Blue are the over the water cabins. The ones at the top are where Clementine's Beach and the boat rentals were. The green are the existing Fort buildings that make up Hood-Dee-Do, Trails End and Crockett's Tavern. In the very bottom right corner show a few of the sites in the 700 loop.

View attachment 889997

This aerial is from a few years ago before the new parking lot was added close to the one in C-108/109 above.

Trails End is noted. The circular roads to the left of TE is R********** construction. Wilderness Lodge is all the way to the far left. Wilderness Lodge is actually quite a bit closer to the Contemporary than the paused DVC.

View attachment 889998

j

Yep agree

 

[chackett24]

With Disney moving to optimize their resort and increase utilization, we're seeing Tom Sawyer and the Rivers of America go away next year. Given this, I wonder if the company can continue to justify a low density/low revenue/high value property like Fort Wilderness. Aren't they building a new resort right next to the Wilderness Lodge?

Hopefully my thinking is incorrect, but it's easy to envision campground loops for tents & RVs turning into more lucrative cabins, or disappearing altogether, gobbled up by another deluxe resort.

Well I just heard some rumored information from a travel agent. I don’t know how accurate it is. The tea is, that 20% of the current campsites will be repurposed for DVC cabins by 2026. Also the abandoned resort along the lake will also be repurposed as DVC. I’m guessing that depending on how well the DVC sells is how long Fort Wilderness will remain as is. My family have been going there for the last 3 years & it will be a hit to us. The Fort is a way of life for some. I can’t imagine there won’t be blowback. Disney is all about the $$ lately so I can’t imagine they would prefer $320 per night for a campsite during Christmas week vs $600 a night for a Cabin.

 

[happycamper47]

Also the abandoned resort along the lake will also be repurposed as DVC.

That Resort was always DVC so that shows how much the TA knows.

 

[bama_ed]

Well I just heard some rumored information from a travel agent. I don’t know how accurate it is. The tea is, that 20% of the current campsites will be repurposed for DVC cabins by 2026. Also the abandoned resort along the lake will also be repurposed as DVC. I’m guessing that depending on how well the DVC sells is how long Fort Wilderness will remain as is. My family have been going there for the last 3 years & it will be a hit to us. The Fort is a way of life for some. I can’t imagine there won’t be blowback. Disney is all about the $$ lately so I can’t imagine they would prefer $320 per night for a campsite during Christmas week vs $600 a night for a Cabin.

So much misinformation here.

The "abandoned resort along the lake" was never EVER abandoned. It may have been unofficially "paused" but never officially cancelled, never officially delayed. Everyone who watched what was happening KNEW it was always going to be built behind HDDR. Welcome to the past.

For the record, the (DVC) Cabins at Fort Wilderness are setting a RECORD for low sales. Even if they dump some hotel rooms behind HDDR and put them in the same DVC as the cabins doesn't mean the idea will take off. A DVC at FW is a 'niche' product. The cabins were at the end of their useful life and had to be replaced SOMEWAY. DVC (owners pay) is better for Disney than Disney pay. Duh.

Your TA needs to take a high school economics class. Christmas week for a campsite versus a cabin is a no-brainer.

Cabin loops that didn't get booked up enough during the year (I'm looking at 2100 loop now) got flipped back (from a cabin loop) to a campsite loop yearz ago becuz the other 51 weeks of the year the CAMPERZ used it and made more profit than CABINZ folkz (and DVC is not much more).

You might want to educate yourself with better info than from your TA.

Many of us have agitated for DVC CAMPSITES (not cabins) so that idea is about 20 years old. But WHY would Disney? The current economics do not support it.

Bama Ed

 

[bama_ed]

Want to add that I don't believe any rumors unless confirmed by a bus driver at WDW (preferably those that drive at the Fort itself).

PS - I'm more curious to know what they're going to build in the Meadow behind the main pool and tennis courts.

 

[Stratman50th]

Hey @bama_ed - Several bus drivers live here in my hood. My question is...
Does it count if they aren't working/driving on property? Wasn't sure.

 

[bama_ed]

Actually, to me, Stratman, it probably counts MORE than it would on property.

In a relaxed, casual conversation like an HOA meeting, community picnic, or going for a walk/ride in the evening and stopping to talk with folks outside doing the same, the drivers might be more relaxed and less guarded and thus more honest in their opinions and assessments of what they see and hear.

So get out there, turn on that considerable charm and twinkle in your eye, and see what they tell you.

THEN REPORT BACK TO US, of course. <jk>

Ed

PS - over on the DVC boards, they've sniffed out an FAA application for the R********** worksite to have a 240-foot construction crane on location starting October 14 and staying for several months. So it's coming.

 

[Teamubr]

PS - I'm more curious to know what they're going to build in the Meadow behind the main pool and tennis courts.

I heard a rumor that a Metro (StL) bus driver thinks it will be a restaurant for the DVC. And by "heard", I mean I just made it up.

PS - over on the DVC boards, they've sniffed out an FAA application for the R********** worksite to have a 240-foot construction crane on location starting October 14 and staying for several months. So it's coming.

Oooo. Just in time for the DIS meet!

j