For those of us displaced from AKV Concierge

[Mississippian]

It would be a bummer but I don't see how this would be different if you owned your own vacation home. Let's say some work had to be done and the only time to get the work done was during the week you planned to use your own vacation home. You'd be out of a vacation that you already paid airline tickets for and made ADRs, bought park tickets, etc... So, what would you do? Probably reserve somewhere else and pay out of pocket for the extra expense even though you have vacation home in the area. At least, DVC can put the people up at another location.

Let's compare apples to apples. If I owned a vacation home and agreed to rent it out to someone, then the fact that it suddenly needed repairs does not eliminate or reduce my duty to the people renting the house. I have pledged to them a certain level of accomdations, and I must deliver, REGARDLESS of the cost to me.

At Disney, it's very easy to provide equal accomodations and to determine damages. In this case, perhaps the easiest way would be for Disney simply to keep the points and fork over the cash rack rate for these rooms to the agrieved party and let them find their own rooms, at Disney or otherwise. DVC can then recover its money by renting these rooms out for cash in the future. There are always a lot of points that go unused, so it shouldn't be a problem.

Remember, when you make the person who is blameworthy PAY for their mistakes and the damage they do to others, they make fewer mistakes and do less damage to other people's lives.

 

[OurDogCisco]

Let's compare apples to apples. If I owned a vacation home and agreed to rent it out to someone, then the fact that it suddenly needed repairs does not eliminate or reduce my duty to the people renting the house. I have pledged to them a certain level of accomdations, and I must deliver, REGARDLESS of the cost to me.

At Disney, it's very easy to provide equal accomodations and to determine damages. In this case, perhaps the easiest way would be for Disney simply to keep the points and fork over the cash rack rate for these rooms to the agrieved party and let them find their own rooms, at Disney or otherwise. DVC can then recover its money by renting these rooms out for cash in the future. There are always a lot of points that go unused, so it shouldn't be a problem.

Remember, when you make the person who is blameworthy PAY for their mistakes and the damage they do to others, they make fewer mistakes and do less damage to other people's lives.

I guess.. I'm confused because I thought we were owners of our timeshare just like a vacation home. DVC is providing accomandations for those that are being displaced. I think, the problems lies is that it isn't good enough people want more.

 

[Dean]

Dean, this isn't really correct. If they are available for money, DVC has access. Now they might have to pay hard, cash dollars for the rooms, but they have access.

It is their breach. They have a duty to remedy their breach, with cash money if necessary.

Certainly, I believe I've acknowledged that somewhere recently on this subject. But they (DVC) is not going to pay retail or anywhere close. As I noted, I suspect AKL is actually the one this would fall to and they apparently aren't going to pay it either or at least above what they're paying for the current fixes, if anything. I'm betting there have been some very interstesting discussions between DVC and various components of Disney recently. But in the end the rooms in question are out of service with little other options available. If tehy had simply cancelled the reservations and said "we're full, sorry", what would you have said. My take would be been that I was sorry for those affected but things do happen. I would have been more OK with that than I am the current fix but I'm guessing those that are affected would not have seen it that way with vacations planned, commitments made and tickets bought.

 

[Mississippian]

But they (DVC) is not going to pay retail or anywhere close. As I noted, I suspect AKL is actually the one this would fall to and they apparently aren't going to pay it either or at least above what they're paying for the current fixes, if anything. I'm betting there have been some very interstesting discussions between DVC and various components of Disney recently. But in the end the rooms in question are out of service with little other options available. If tehy had simply cancelled the reservations and said "we're full, sorry", what would you have said. My take would be been that I was sorry for those affected but things do happen. I would have been more OK with that than I am the current fix but I'm guessing those that are affected would not have seen it that way with vacations planned, commitments made and tickets bought.

Dean,

All defendants invaribly say they "aren't going to pay it either." You've said yourself that it was not DVC, but AKL that was at fault. Litigation is needed.

Litigation is a wonderful thing. Evil people become less evil. Uncooperative people become cooperative. DVC managers who try to cheat the customers quit trying to cheat the customers.

Take it from a Christian perspective. If you were to behave this way, wouldn't you want to be sued? Of course you would, because you are a decent person. Therefore you have a Christian (or insert other faith) obligation to sue those who do these things.

If you make it very, very painful for Disney to do these things they will cease to do these things.

 

[Dean]

Dean,

All defendants invaribly say they "aren't going to pay it either." You've said yourself that it was not DVC, but AKL that was at fault. Litigation is needed.

Litigation is a wonderful thing. Evil people become less evil. Uncooperative people become cooperative. DVC managers who try to cheat the customers quit trying to cheat the customers.

Take it from a Christian perspective. If you were to behave this way, wouldn't you want to be sued? Of course you would, because you are a decent person. Therefore you have a Christian (or insert other faith) obligation to sue those who do these things.

If you make it very, very painful for Disney to do these things they will cease to do these things.

What I said is that I SUSPECT it's AKL at fault and at risk, ultimately it's Disney's responsibility as a whole in this situation and AKL and DVC should have some sort of shared responsibility and solution, IMO. No I do not think this is something to sue about, complain certainly, but not sue. While important to the few, this is only a MODERATE deal overall because some take it as a measure of DVC in general. By itself, this is a minor issue at best. Litigation would be somewhat akin to McDonald's Hot coffee. This is something that happens with timeshares and hotels, it's not the first time and it won't be the last, and Disney is doing more than most seem to do in similar situations.

 

[atpatt]

As one of the displaced and a wife of an attorney, I don't think its anything to sue about either (sort of like staying in a holiday inn express last night, lol). I am willing to bet there is something in our contract regarding cancellations anyway, not like I care enough to read it!

It is what it is, and it was also mishandled. They should have called offering equal or superior accommodations. They didn't. It %*&$^ me off that I won't be able to stay club level there for over a year, but oh well. We bought AKV in Nov07 and I immediately made my reservations for this trip at that time. Life's not fair, I will get over it...probably when I am getting my fill of the F&WF from BWVs in October.

I suspect that AKL is at fault too, and DVC tried to handle it as financially sound as possible for their own sake.

 

[Mississippian]

What I said is that I SUSPECT it's AKL at fault and at risk, ultimately it's Disney's responsibility as a whole in this situation and AKL and DVC should have some sort of shared responsibility and solution, IMO. No I do not think this is something to sue about, complain certainly, but not sue. While important to the few, this is only a MODERATE deal overall because some take it as a measure of DVC in general. By itself, this is a minor issue at best. Litigation would be somewhat akin to McDonald's Hot coffee. This is something that happens with timeshares and hotels, it's not the first time and it won't be the last, and Disney is doing more than most seem to do in similar situations.

Dean,

I have a lot of respect for you and do not want to argue overmuch. I will only say that bad people tend to become more reasonable when faced with litigation.

As for the McDonald's coffee, there is some evidence that they really were serving it super-hot to get more cups of coffee from each once of grounds. If true, the suit certainly presents a valid claim.

 

[Dean]

Dean,

I have a lot of respect for you and do not want to argue overmuch. I will only say that bad people tend to become more reasonable when faced with litigation.

As for the McDonald's coffee, there is some evidence that they really were serving it super-hot to get more cups of coffee from each once of grounds. If true, the suit certainly presents a valid claim.

People sue way too much over trivial things, this is a trivial thing in that light. There should be consequences when people file trivially to both the filer and lawyer, if they lose they should have to pay a significant amount.

 

[Mississippian]

People sue way too much over trivial things, this is a trivial thing in that light. There should be consequences when people file trivially to both the filer and lawyer, if they lose they should have to pay a significant amount.

Dean,

I'm not opposed to the "losers pay" notion on lawsuits. That's the rule in England.

However, being sold a DVC interest on the basis of being able to book an extremely valuable "concierge" level of rooms, and then being told at the last minute that you are being bumped down to grossly inferior accomodations, and that DVC is not going to help you rebook these hard-to-get valuable rooms in the future is not trivial. It is major.

The crowning blow in this case is that DVC has not even offered to give these people preference for a future booking.

I do agree with you that frivilous litigation should be punished. In this case, given that Disney is so clearly in the wrong, if they force the customer to go to court to obtain what Disney has a duty to provide voluntarily, then Disney should have to pay the customer's legal fees.

 

[hakepb]

I guess.. I'm confused because I thought we were owners of our timeshare just like a vacation home. DVC is providing accomandations for those that are being displaced. I think, the problems lies is that it isn't good enough people want more.

We essentially pay DVC to hold out a % of rooms for maintaince purposes (somebody pays, I'm sure it is us), we are paying extra to get a more guaranteed booking at your selected resort. and we are paying annual fees to have a reliable reservation system. (Otherwise we could just buy a cheaper fixed week timeshare and try to swap them on some trading board). Disney and/or DVC did not do their job (that we alredy paid for) in this case, so I am not sure why we would have to pay more.

On the otherhand, we are paying for all future vacations, not just this one. Although you think you are paying to use your own home 365.25 days a year, you know that due to maint / remodelling... that you will not get full use out of your home every day you own. That ownership reality really stinks in this case.

 

[atpatt]

I guess.. I'm confused because I thought we were owners of our timeshare just like a vacation home. DVC is providing accomandations for those that are being displaced. I think, the problems lies is that it isn't good enough people want more.

The "more" that I want is either my room returned for October or DVC to let me book my next AKV concierge trip now. I realize that neither of those are realistic options, so in my mind there is nothing else they can really do. They gave me BWV with BWI concierge access and returned points, not the same, not what I want, but it is close enough that I will take it. I don't expect any freebies other than the access to BWI concierge. I think that most posts by the people who were kicked out have contained reasonable expectations and requests.

 

[Dean]

However, being sold a DVC interest on the basis of being able to book an extremely valuable "concierge" level of rooms, and then being told at the last minute that you are being bumped down to grossly inferior accomodations, and that DVC is not going to help you rebook these hard-to-get valuable rooms in the future is not trivial. It is major.

The crowning blow in this case is that DVC has not even offered to give these people preference for a future booking.

DVC can't legally and technically give preference for a future booking from my understanding. My take is things happen and while it's a big deal to those affected, it's not in the big scheme of things. If those rooms had been known to be out of service initially they would not have gotten anything and would have had to look at other options at that point. I realize they've lost the ability for other options due to the delay but that is really all assuming the rooms were not going to be available. I know the emotions involved, I've been there personally.

 

[dudelydude]

I know that I am chiming-in about 1 month too late on this and don't know if anyone is even still subscribing to this post, but I wanted to say two things:

1. I know that there have been many thanks to those that are pounding MS for trying give SSR as an alternative to AKV concierge. I just wanted to give an extra special thanks. I am not even an owner (hope to be soon), but what you have done for the rest of the owners is remarkable. By your demands of equal or better accomodations, you are sending a message that DVC owners will not be under-estimated and toyed with. And yes...that's right...even those that may have asked for more than equal compensation have done some justice...if you over-demand, you will get less, but equal to your original accomodations. And that's to say nothing of the fact that you are really stirring things up to punish MS, who will do what they can to avoid such a mistake in the future.

2. For those that criticized those for their so-called, "Feeling of entitlement," these people are even helping YOU. You criticize, because it wasn't you that got screwed, but what happens when your time comes? You may be changing your tune and thanking these people yourselves.

 

[tomandrobin]

Since this thread has been brought back to life, is there any updates to the schedule maintenance?

We check-in on Oct 31st, in a two bedroom....So we get to miss the whole mess. But I was wondering if they had tweeked the schedule or its firm?

 

[Mississippian]

I know that I am chiming-in about 1 month too late on this and don't know if anyone is even still subscribing to this post, but I wanted to say two things:

1. I know that there have been many thanks to those that are pounding MS for trying give SSR as an alternative to AKV concierge. I just wanted to give an extra special thanks. I am not even an owner (hope to be soon), but what you have done for the rest of the owners is remarkable. By your demands of equal or better accomodations, you are sending a message that DVC owners will not be under-estimated and toyed with. And yes...that's right...even those that may have asked for more than equal compensation have done some justice...if you over-demand, you will get less, but equal to your original accomodations. And that's to say nothing of the fact that you are really stirring things up to punish MS, who will do what they can to avoid such a mistake in the future.

2. For those that criticized those for their so-called, "Feeling of entitlement," these people are even helping YOU. You criticize, because it wasn't you that got screwed, but what happens when your time comes? You may be changing your tune and thanking these people yourselves.

I'm with you 100 percent. I have a "feeling of entitlement." That's what comes from paying top dollar for something, followed by high interest, followed by pretty substantial member dues. I am "entitled" to what I pay for and am promised. If the members don't make Disney's life really miserable for trying to do something like this, then they will do it again and again with impunity.

Life as a DVC member should not be a game of Russian Roulette.

 

[janni518]

Dean,

All defendants invaribly say they "aren't going to pay it either." You've said yourself that it was not DVC, but AKL that was at fault. Litigation is needed.

Litigation is a wonderful thing. Evil people become less evil. Uncooperative people become cooperative. DVC managers who try to cheat the customers quit trying to cheat the customers.

Take it from a Christian perspective. If you were to behave this way, wouldn't you want to be sued? Of course you would, because you are a decent person. Therefore you have a Christian (or insert other faith) obligation to sue those who do these things.

If you make it very, very painful for Disney to do these things they will cease to do these things.

Did no one else find that hysterically funny?

 

[atpatt]

I tend to go with the "well this is where I was put so this is where I should be" obligation to accept what I cannot change. Which is why I never get very far.

I am actually excited about being at BWV during F&WF now. After I got over my sense of being "wronged", I realized that being moved would probably work out better for us. And the points I got back allowed us to switch from BWV to BCV for Feb09. So I think it worked out well.

Hopefully the rest of the displaced members are feeling better about the fiasco too.

 

[Laneychris]

Yeah, I find it really funny!!

 

[2Princes2Princesses]

Hopefully the rest of the displaced members are feeling better about the fiasco too.

I am feeling pretty good. I love SSR (our first home) and I am excited to be going back there. Plus any room at Disney beats a fork in the eye!!!

DH and I did AKV CL in July, but the kids, mom, sis, and my best friend didn't. So they don't even know what they are missing! Gives us an excuse to make another trip with everyone.

DVC ended up coming through for us. It required prodding and pushing, which does somewhat bother me. But I can only hope they did learn something from this mess and handle the next one (and you can bet there will be a next one) better.

And RE OurDogCisco: "the confusion about it not being good enough"....I have 9 people in my party and was only given accommodations for 8. So no...that was not good enough. If I tried to book 9 in a 2BR at SSR, they would tell me "no, you have to book an additional studio." So, I expected room for 9. That is what I ended up getting, and I am more than satisfied with that.

 

[pyrxtc]

I'm am okay with being moved, it doesn't excite me though. BWV's is a great resort, more to what I wanted than SSR is. I still want back in on AKV tho.

On the thread I started about being moved in the first place, I placed a poll asking how evrything ended after the stay so we can see what really happened and if everything went as smoothly as it seems it will.

So, if you were displaced because of this, please respond to the poll and then let us know how it all went.

http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=1911617