For $2 Billion Disney could have built 16 major attractions instead of fast pass+

[Laketravis]

You are totally taking my comments out of context and supplying comments that fit your argument:

It's really unfortunate that you think Barnstormer fill the same role as SDMT. But if you do, whatever I'm not going to change your mind!

I didn't think it did, you did. It meets the criteria of what you said MK needed.

They keep the lights off! Theming. What about Everest or the Matterhorn - these are in the light, outdoors, and are gorgeous because they're visible.

I asked if you had ever seen SM or RnRC with the lights on - because if you had, you would see that those are nothing but steel coasters on concrete pilings, exactly what you described Six Flags coasters to be. But when themed properly (in this case the use of simple darkness which is free!) they become Disney.

I saw that post, and never contested it. Not a bad idea. Essentially like SM / RR.

Great! Then you do see how Disney could take a $12M dollar coaster, put it in a $30M building but instead of a dark ride put projections on all angles (not just forward like Soarin) and turn it into a total immersion experience. And it didn't cost hundreds of millions of dollars to build.

See I think this is where you go wrong. Adding a thrill ride would not do more to bring families.Yes it would give adults something else they'd want to do, but it would not in itself be cause for that family with young kids to say "hey let's to to Disney World cuz they have a new ride like the one at Six Flags."

Oh, okay. So more and better designed attractions similar to Space Mountain, Big Thunder Mountain Railroad, Test Track, Soarin, Rock n Roller Coaster or Expedition Everest wouldn't draw families to Disney World like Under the Sea or 7DMT would? So that wouldn't give a family with young kids cause to say "Hey, let's go to Disney World cuz they have TWELVE more rides like Space Mountain and Test Track and Soarin"?

Got it.

 

[Laketravis]

We kinda liked the whole experience. Not just the fast part. Including the after-ride play things that you probly have no interest in doing. And the MS playthings are cool too!

We probably spent more time with that stuff than we did standing in line for Test Track itself.

You really don't know me.

I could be content just hanging out looking at all the Christmas decorations. Of course, there are also fewer of those than there used to be..........

Maybe Disney should reboot their concept of spending money and put some of it back where it really mattered to people.

 

[MrInfinity]

You are totally taking my comments out of context and supplying comments that fit your argument:

I didn't think it did, you did. It meets the criteria of what you said MK needed.

I said the SDMT fills a very appropriate and needed role at the MK. You said the Barnstormer does this. I asserted that the SDMT is nothing like the Barnstormer. You seem to think they are the same. That is why you think it is overpaid for. You don't see the SDMT as anything but a Barnstormer. If that's what you see it as, then I am just glad to not be you.

Barnstormer is the cheapo-ride you are thinking of, approximately on the cost and quality of something you'd find at a Six Flags. SDMT is a ground-up terraformed beautiful amazing experience fitting of being the new headliner of the #1 family vacation destination in the world.

You don't seem to see a difference between them. So go ride the Barnstormer. The line is shorter, and you'll get the same experience.

 

[Laketravis]

SDMT......coaster that is appropriate for younger kids than Space Mtn and BTMRR. This was needed. Before you had to be 40" and 44" to ride these, now there is a 38" coaster!

I said the SDMT fills a very appropriate and needed role at the MK. You said the Barnstormer does this. I asserted that the SDMT is nothing like the Barnstormer. You seem to think they are the same.

I never said they were the same. I said SDMT wasn't "needed" because according to your definition of need, Barnstormer already filled that need.

SDMT is a ground-up terraformed beautiful amazing experience fitting of being the new headliner of the #1 family vacation destination in the world.

Maybe if you're stoned when you ride it and drink enough Kool-aid. Otherwise, I think the jury's still out on that one. Hi-ho, Hi-ho.

 

[Davey Jones II]

I don't really believe that - certainly popular attractions can be built for less than hundreds of millions each.

Of course not everything has to be an E Ticket. But my point is that any new attraction will cost far more today than the same thing would have cost in the past. And it's not just a question of "1955 dollars versus today's dollars". Disney's costs to build something new have ballooned far faster than inflation.

Turn on the lights and that is what Space Mountain or Rock n Roller Coaster or Tower of Terror is.

SM and RNR are indoor coasters, so of course darkness adds to the thrill and theming. But it's the total ride experience that counts, and a bare bones outdoor coaster is just not the same animal.
Besides, indoor coasters are only a small portion of Disney's offerings.
As for TOT, I strongly disagree. The theming and effects, particularly at DHS, lift this attraction far above (pun not intended) other drop rides.
The DCA version cost $75 million in 2004 -- and that's for a clone. Six Flags could probably install a no frills drop ride for under $10 million.

 

[Davey Jones II]

The overall point of this thread is that they didn't spend the money (in the thread title) on building ANY attractions.

They spent somewhere between one and two billion dollars on a "guest-scattering" system.

I was responding to the last few pages of this thread, which has focused on NFL and whether or not Disney got a good "bang for the buck" on their most recent new attractions at WDW.

 

[JimmyV]

SDMT is a ground-up terraformed beautiful amazing experience fitting of being the new headliner of the #1 family vacation destination in the world.

It's the shiniest new toy. When the Nemo clamshell redux called Little Mermaid premiered, it was the new headliner. And so was Tales with Bell. Those two are edging their way toward being walk-ons. If you think that 5 years from now, 7DMT will draw longer lines than Space, Splash, Thunder, Test Track Soarin', Avatar, TSMM (or the upcoming Frozen ride), you are high...ho.

 

[Robo]

Of course not everything has to be an E Ticket. But my point is that any new attraction will cost far more today than the same thing would have cost in the past. And the rate of cost inflation is far higher than that of ordinary inflation.

That point does not much interest me, as there is so much that can VARY in the actual cost of any given attraction.

Primary example.
Cars Land (DCA) cost a ton of (very recent) dollars.
(Inflation has not gone up much at all since they built Cars Land.)

It would cost far less to simply DUPLICATE the Cars Land attractions at WDW than it did to design a whole new set of attractions, environmental elements and themed buildings from scratch.
All of the technical R&D has been spent.

And, I can say as sure as I know anything "Disney," Cars Land would be an OUTSTANDING draw for guests at WDW. Just huge!

 

[Laketravis]

SM and RNR are indoor coasters, so of course darkness adds to the thrill and theming. But it's the total ride experience that counts, and a bare bones outdoor coaster is just not the same animal.
Besides, indoor coasters are only a small portion of Disney's offerings.
As for TOT, I strongly disagree. The theming and effects, particularly at DHS, lift this attraction far above (pun not intended) other drop rides.
The DCA version cost $75 million in 2004. Six Flags could probably install a no frills drop ride for under $10 million.

I totally agree with you, I think we just don't agree on how much the additional theming would/could cost. ToT is a drop ride surrounded by theming. If a no frills drop ride is $10M, do you really think the theming is $65M?

Besides, indoor coasters are only a small portion of Disney's offerings.

Yet judging by wait times, they are among the most popular offerings at DW. So perhaps they should build some more of them? Especially if these can be built more cost effectively than elaborately themed outdoor coasters.

 

[JimmyV]

That point does not much interest me, as there is so much that can VARY in the actual cost of any given attraction.

Primary example.
Cars Land (DCA) cost a ton of (very recent) dollars.
(Inflation has not gone up much at all since they built Cars Land.)

It would cost far less to simply DUPLICATE the Cars Land attractions at WDW than it did to design a whole new set of attractions and themed buildings
from scratch.

And, I can say as sure as I know anything "Disney," Cars Land would be an OUTSTANDING draw for guests at WDW. Just huge!

Cars Land single-handedly rescued a dying park. It could do the same for DHS. But then again, so would a vibrant "Pixar Place" that captured all of the recent movies that have made Disney billions of dollars. Think about a child who is 10 years old. Make a list of all of the Disney movies that came out in his/her lifetime, and then reflect on which of those movies has C, D, or E-ticket attraction level treatment. Acknowledge that the movies made since 1995 are a meaningful part of children's lives and you will have a great park.

 

[larryz]

"Daddy, this amusement park is so boring..."

Theme parks are about a complete experience that follows a theme. Theme parts cost more to build and require more space.

"Daddy, this theme park is so boring..."

It is a resort not just a theme park.

"Daddy, this RESORT is so boring..."

 

[larryz]

Doubters, just face this hard fact: You're afraid of change.

I'm not afraid of change; if I don't have to experience the "magic" of FP+, I won't.

And one more thing: FP+ and MyMagic+ is here to stay. Get used to it.

Not in California it isn't. That's where I'll spend my money on Disney vacations.

 

[larryz]

Then I suppose something like this would never fly at WDW.

Call this something Disney instead of "Batman"

Even though it has a small footprint, similar height allowance as RnRC, only cost $12M to build, and could be completely housed within a themed pavilion with 360 degree screens for added effect (not a dark ride, think Soarin on steroids) for perhaps another $20M. Still a fraction of the cost of the 7DMT kiddie coaster, but you don't think there would be any demand for it at WDW?

Call it "Tie Fighter Dogfight" with X-wings and Y-wings on the 3D screens, and you'd have another TSMM on your hands.

 

[MrInfinity]

Cars Land single-handedly rescued a dying park. It could do the same for DHS.

No you don't repeat it, it's good for CA but not something you just make 2 of. Star Wars will far more for HS than Cars did for CA.

Acknowledge that the movies made since 1995 are a meaningful part of children's lives and you will have a great park.

Are you saying they should do this or they are doing this?

Frozen (coming) (EC)
Toy Story Midway Mania (HS+CA)
Under the Sea / Mermaid (MK)
Nemo & Friends (EC)
Turtle Talk (EC)
Nemo Submarine Voyage (DL)
Enchanted Tales (MK)
Buzz Lightyear Astro Blasters (MK+DL)
It's Tough to Be a Bug (AK)
FOTLK (AK)
Nemo Show (AK)
Bugs Land (CA)
Mine Train (MK)
Splash Mountain (MK+DL)
Pirates of the Caribbean (MK+DL)
Alice in Wonderland (DL)
Peter Pan (MK+DL)
Barnstormer (MK) / Goofy Ride (DL)
Magic Carpets of Aladdin (MK)
Monsters Inc (CA)
Laugh Floor (MK)
Ratatouille (ED)

What blockbuster Disney / Pixar films have not had a ride made after them? Incredibles supposedly had a ride planned, but was cancelled understandably as an I2 could not be worked out. Brave? (which begot an official princess, so really it has major exposure in that way). Up (?) Wall-E (?) There aren't a lot... Up ranks in the top Pixar movies, but my kids barely knew the characters when they met them in the AK. Wall-E is an odd one -- it seems to get no love anywhere. But then again its message was not as great as other movies, that people if left unchecked will become subject to glutton, pollute the earth, and leave it to decay... and then only once inspired by a leader will they want to be at all independent again. Hehe. Loved Wall-E, but the message was not as goody-goody as other movies.

In fact I just watched Meet the Robinsons the other day for the first time! I thought it was really good. Wonder why this one doesn't make any top-lists.

EDIT: Ooh... Hercules. That is one of my top Disney movies and it never got a ride. But it wasn't big overall.

 

[JimmyV]

Frozen (coming) (EC)-coming-but in the wrong park
Toy Story Midway Mania (HS+CA)-legitimate headliner treatment
Under the Sea / Mermaid (MK)-1989 movie...1960's style mannequin ride
Nemo & Friends (EC)-A repurposed pavilion entrance for a top 5 animated movie
Turtle Talk (EC)-seriously? My living room is bigger
Nemo Submarine Voyage (DL)-ugh! More repurposing
Enchanted Tales (MK)-1991
Buzz Lightyear Astro Blasters (MK+DL)-legitimate treatment of a major hit. So good they had to do it twice, here and in DHS
It's Tough to Be a Bug (AK)-not bad but not wearing well.
FOTLK (AK)-1994.A stage show instead of a ride for a top 5 animated hit.
Nemo Show (AK)-Another stage show.
Bugs Land (CA)-don't even know what that is
Mine Train (MK) not a post-1995 movie
Splash Mountain (MK+DL)-an old movie that has been scrubbed from Disney's library
Pirates of the Caribbean (MK+DL)-not based on a movie at all
Alice in Wonderland (DL)-old movie that borders on unwatchably bad.
Peter Pan (MK+DL)-old movie
Barnstormer (MK) / Goofy Ride (DL)-not based on a movie
Magic Carpets of Aladdin (MK)-replica of Dumbo for a major hit
Monsters Inc (CA)-not sure what that is
Laugh Floor (MK)-decent treatment of a hit that belongs in Pixar Place
Ratatouille (ED)-???
.

See inserts above and...

1995 and beyond:
Pocahontas -no ride. Two minutes of F!
Hunchback-Short-lived stage show (that I loved). No ride.
101 Dalmatians-No ride. Some retired treatment at Backlot tour.
Hercules-No ride. Lame parade at DHS
Mulan-nothing
Tarzan-retired stage show. No ride.
Emperor's New Groove-Never even acknowledged by Disney. Tell me that wouldn't make for a great water ride.
Atlantis-Nothing
Lilo and Stitch-a repurposed alien ride that rates as worst at WDW.
Brother Bear-nothing
The Incredibles-nothing
Narnia series-a stupid costume walk-through that is now gone.
Cars-nothing in WDW.
Meet The Robinsons-nothing...but do they deserve anything?
Ratatouille-nothing
Wall-E- Nothing
Bolt-Nothing
Up-nothing
Princess and the Frog-nothing
Tangled-A bathroom
Brave-Nothing
Wreck-It-Ralph-Nothing
.......which brings us to Frozen.

Bottom line? Movies since 1995 have been buried from view.

 

[Money82]

See inserts above and...

1995 and beyond:
Pocahontas -no ride. Two minutes of F!
Hunchback-Short-lived stage show (that I loved). No ride.
101 Dalmatians-No ride. Some retired treatment at Backlot tour.
Hercules-No ride. Lame parade at DHS
Mulan-nothing
Tarzan-retired stage show. No ride.
Emperor's New Groove-Never even acknowledged by Disney. Tell me that wouldn't make for a great water ride.
Atlantis-Nothing
Lilo and Stitch-a repurposed alien ride that rates as worst at WDW.
Brother Bear-nothing
The Incredibles-nothing
Narnia series-a stupid costume walk-through that is now gone.
Cars-nothing in WDW.
Meet The Robinsons-nothing...but do they deserve anything?
Ratatouille-nothing
Wall-E- Nothing
Bolt-Nothing
Up-nothing
Princess and the Frog-nothing
Tangled-A bathroom
Brave-Nothing
Wreck-It-Ralph-Nothing
.......which brings us to Frozen.

Bottom line? Movies since 1995 have been buried from view.

You just exposed the fuzzy logic of fuzzylogic

 

[Robo]

No you don't repeat it, it's good for CA but not something you just make 2 of.

For what reason would it be a bad idea to duplicate Cars Land at WDW?

It is so outstandingly popular that it would even make sense to duplicate it again at DCA
to handle the load (yes, I know there's no room to do that.)

 

[Reddog1134]

For what reason would it be a bad idea to duplicate Cars Land at WDW?

While I understand the joy of having something unique, I've never understood the hate for cloned attractions.

 

[Hokie2000]

See inserts above and...

1995 and beyond:
Pocahontas -no ride. Two minutes of F!
Hunchback-Short-lived stage show (that I loved). No ride.
101 Dalmatians-No ride. Some retired treatment at Backlot tour.
Hercules-No ride. Lame parade at DHS
Mulan-nothing
Tarzan-retired stage show. No ride.
Emperor's New Groove-Never even acknowledged by Disney. Tell me that wouldn't make for a great water ride.
Atlantis-Nothing
Lilo and Stitch-a repurposed alien ride that rates as worst at WDW.
Brother Bear-nothing
The Incredibles-nothing
Narnia series-a stupid costume walk-through that is now gone.
Cars-nothing in WDW.
Meet The Robinsons-nothing...but do they deserve anything?
Ratatouille-nothing
Wall-E- Nothing
Bolt-Nothing
Up-nothing
Princess and the Frog-nothing
Tangled-A bathroom
Brave-Nothing
Wreck-It-Ralph-Nothing
.......which brings us to Frozen.

Bottom line? Movies since 1995 have been buried from view.

Ok when you put it this way it's pretty easy to see that they're dropping the ball from an attraction standpoint. So many excellent possibilities, now I'm dreaming of a shooting the rapids w/ Cuzco, racing in Sugar Rush, traveling through space w/ Wall-E, and hitching a ride to Paradise Falls. Darn you for pointing this out so now I feel cheated!

As far as New Fantasyland goes, I do think they messed up w/ The Little Mermaid. I know it was planned many, many years ago but never came about. Instead of just going back to the old idea I wish they would have started fresh and designed a new ride based on the movie. It could have been really awesome, now it's just ok. I like ETWB a lot and I have yet to ride 7DMT but I like the concept and how it adds energy to the area. Not a huge fan of BOG but I appreciate why people are and I'm glad they created such a nice (for most) dining experience. The design of the whole land is pretty amazing, I'm excited to see it w/ no construction walls around 7DMT.

Am I the only one who greatly appreciates the new Dumbo? It's nice to no longer have to wait in that awful line, plus the water features add a lot. I also love the play area. It's really cute, all indoors, my kids love it and it's a great spot for us to take a break. I'm really happy with what they did there.

And, to bring it back to the original theme of this thread, I still really like my MBs and FP+. I also want new, exciting experiences. Call me ridiculously optimistic, but I'm not so sure that we won't get both.

 

[Laketravis]

Am I the only one who greatly appreciates the new Dumbo? It's nice to no longer have to wait in that awful line, plus the water features add a lot.

I feel sorry for the new Dumbo; they managed to eliminate the line for that attraction but it seems to have also reduced it's popularity. It's a great example of how long lines can beget longer lines.