Food Stamp question

[Tinknalli]

Unfortunately those who need them for legitimate reasons feel the wrath because of those who abuse the system. The system has needed an overhall for years and most who pay in would agree. Those who benefit would disagree. The people who lobby for change have been very vocal and when there are proposals for change the human rights activists get all upset.

They are trying to pass a bill here that would require those who get assistance to submit to drug testing and the human rights people say it's a violation of privacy. I am subject to drug testing to collect the pay check that I work for. Why shouldn't people who get tax payer money be required to do the same?

When I was a kid my mom had to go ask for emergency food stamps one time. My parents had 5 kids and my father worked hard to support us. He had a major health issue that required surgery and a long recuperation. His disability payments were delayed about 6 weeks and they had kids to feed. My mom hated to do it but got 2 weeks worth of food stamps. We ate better on food stamps than we ever did. The food stamp budget was well above what my parents budgeted for food.

 

[torinsmom]

I've been there, seeing people who seem like they wouldn't be able to afford it with overflowing grocery carts on the first few days of the month, and thought "man, I wish I could just walk in and buy all of that and not have to worry about it!" but now that we DO have the money to buy all of that and have a larger family (this was back when we only had a couple of kids and made less than we do now) and load up a cart full of groceries when we go, I wonder how people might judge us. Do they think our debit card is an EBT card? Do they think that if I pay partial with a gift card and partial with my debit card or cash that one is an EBT since we are using two form of payment? After all, we do go shopping with ALL of these kids LOL! I can just imagine what they think, especially since my kids are dressed in name brand. But I try not to care if they assume that we are using EBT since it is none of their business either way. You don't know unless YOU personally SEE the card and you shouldn't judge even if it is EBT. After all, that lady paying with EBT whose kids are all wearing new-looking Gap and Gymboree may have paid $2-$5 for those clothing items like we do at consignment sales. She's buying fresh fruits and veggies with that government money? Better that than her kids stuffing down $1 frozen pizzas and $.50 pot pies, becoming obese and collecting SSI for the rest of their lives.

I agree with the above pp that said if you (not torinsmom, but the collective you) have a problem with the way money is being spent or don't agree with the rules regarding who gets the money, you are wasting your time complaining to your friends and local cashier. Take it up with your local congress person or vote a different way. If things still don't change, then obviously your view is in the minority. The way each person spends the benefits that they get is not your business, it is the govs business. And if they cared they would track the way benefits are spent and limit what can be bought.

Whew! That was long. Sorry. Climbing off my soapbox now

Actually, these are cases where I saw the card at checkout. Now, I would never say anything to the person or to the cashier. I think that is rude and unnecessary. I don't know how to control FEELING that way though.

 

[Colleen27]

How could a person in need NOT spend the benefits for months? That would be an indication that he or she didn't actually need the assistance in the first place.

Not necessarily. It could indicate that she is a very frugal shopper, or a vegetarian (no meat tends to keep the grocery bill down), or was hospitalized or otherwise away from home for a time, etc. Or as someone else already pointed out, that there was for some reason a back payment credited in a lump sum.

We see people on this board talk all the time about feeding their family on a very low grocery budget - if one of those $100-a-week shoppers received food stamps they'd quickly amass a rather large unused balance.

 

[CatNipRules]

Listen, just because I have to pay 15% of my income towards SS and Medicare (plus regular income taxes)

How do you figure that you pay 15% of your income towards SS & Medicare? The most you would pay would be 5.65%. 4.2% for SS and 1.45% for Medicare.

I am an accountant and payroll manager and just wonder why you are paying so much. Someone isn't doing their job on that one.

As for discussing the whole food stamp issue, people who have never had to be on them before are finding it necessary. My sister lives in Florida and was out of work for over 2 years. Yeah, the economy is that bad down there. She was on food stamps, but it barely covered her and her daughter.

 

[nunzia]

Yes, and when/if she loses her job, SHE'LL be the one on assistance and being judged as she goes through the line.

Here we go...
The OP didn't say anyone was judging anyone being on asistance..just wondering how it got determined who got what since some seem to have alot of money on thier card and some struggled. And yes, the ballooning use of food stamps and higher and higher income to qualify is all of our business and no, not a discussion topic for the DIS

 

[Colleen27]

They are trying to pass a bill here that would require those who get assistance to submit to drug testing and the human rights people say it's a violation of privacy. I am subject to drug testing to collect the pay check that I work for. Why shouldn't people who get tax payer money be required to do the same?

Look into what is happening in Florida for your answers - they're spending far, far more on testing than they're saving on denying applications of those who test positive, a substantial net loss for the taxpayer.

Employers incur the expense of testing not only to avoid the expenses of hiring and training a potentially unreliable employee but also because those clean tests cover their butts from a liability standpoint. They did their due diligence by making sure their employees were clean at the time of hire and randomly thereafter, and can introduce that as evidence should an intoxicated employee ever be the cause of a suit against the company. Human services has no such vested interest in making sure welfare recipients are clean, so unless the program is likely to be cost effective there's no justification for it.

 

[RitaE]

How do you figure that you pay 15% of your income towards SS & Medicare? The most you would pay would be 5.65%. 4.2% for SS and 1.45% for Medicare.

I am an accountant and payroll manager and just wonder why you are paying so much. Someone isn't doing their job on that one.

As for discussing the whole food stamp issue, people who have never had to be on them before are finding it necessary. My sister lives in Florida and was out of work for over 2 years. Yeah, the economy is that bad down there. She was on food stamps, but it barely covered her and her daughter.

If they are self-employed then they are paying the Employee/Employer portions themselves. Since the reduction in SS from 6.2 to 4.2 it has gone down, but most people don't realize they are paying a bit less.

Yes, the use of Food Stamps is skyrocketing. An eye popping number of people are on benefits anymore.

 

[Colleen27]

Agreed!! Now a days, people are working and still in need of assistance. Not everyone sits on their rears eating bon bons and watching soap operas all day

In these conversations on the DIS the working poor always seem to get overlooked. The median annual wage in 2010 was 26k, and that figure has been declining through the recession and recovery. There are a LOT of working people in need in this country.

How do you figure that you pay 15% of your income towards SS & Medicare? The most you would pay would be 5.65%. 4.2% for SS and 1.45% for Medicare.

I am an accountant and payroll manager and just wonder why you are paying so much. Someone isn't doing their job on that one.

Unless you're self-employed. Then you pay both the employer and employee shares, which is 15.3% total.

Here we go...
The OP didn't say anyone was judging anyone being on asistance..just wondering how it got determined who got what since some seem to have alot of money on thier card and some struggled. And yes, the ballooning use of food stamps and higher and higher income to qualify is all of our business and no, not a discussion topic for the DIS

Higher and higher income to qualify? The cut-off is what it has been for a very long time - 130% of the poverty level. The ballooning use is because an ever-growing share of the American population is earning less than that, not because program eligibility has been expanded.

 

[dhardawa]

So, just out of curiosity, I figured my amount if I lost my job. Including about $1000 in child support per month, I would still receive $417 in food stamps. WOW! I don't spend anywhere near that on food a month.

 

[ForAandA]

How could a person in need NOT spend the benefits for months? That would be an indication that he or she didn't actually need the assistance in the first place.

My father was in the hospital for 62 days, and had his FS balance sitting on his card when he got home.

Then again, why are we all judging?! Seriously! And the people that are complaining that they have to nickel and dime at the grocery store to get by are the SAME people with numerous Disney trips in their sig line?

Who the heck are we to judge???

 

[ccgirl]

I really can't believe the judging going on here. No, I take that back, I can.

People, a lot of the people relying on food stamps have paid into the system too. They have suddenly found themselves without a job. Or maybe they have a deadbeat DH/DW that left them behind with children and no child support.

IDK, maybe it's because I have been laid off twice in this "wonderful" economy but I certainly understand the need for food stamps. I also understand the rise in people getting benefits. The unemployment is higher than it has been in quite some time.

I can say that the amount I would receive in food stamps is pretty accurate compared to how my family eats and we're certainly not having a 4 course meal every night or even meat every night for that matter. As far as I know, food stamps covers food and not toiletries so that money has to come from somewhere too. I may be wrong. I thank my lucky start that I never had to rely on food stamps.

 

[kt_mom]

I really can't believe the judging going on here. No, I take that back, I can.

People, a lot of the people relying on food stamps have paid into the system too. They have suddenly found themselves without a job. Or maybe they have a deadbeat DH/DW that left them behind with children and no child support.

IDK, maybe it's because I have been laid off twice in this "wonderful" economy but I certainly understand the need for food stamps. I also understand the rise in people getting benefits. The unemployment is higher than it has been in quite some time.

I can say that the amount I would receive in food stamps is pretty accurate compared to how my family eats and we're certainly not having a 4 course meal every night or even meat every night for that matter. As far as I know, food stamps covers food and not toiletries so that money has to come from somewhere too. I may be wrong. I thank my lucky start that I never had to rely on food stamps.

And a lot of people haven't paid into the system though. A lot of people are just milking the system because they can and because they are lazy. Most of the people that are "judging" know people personally that are abusing the system. And there are a lot of people that are abusing the system.

I get tired of hearing people say that we shouldn't judge because we don't know the real story and maybe its just a hard worker down on their luck. But the reality is that most of the ones abusing the system are proud of it. They are fine with it and proud of their handouts. I know several people just like this. And its nauseating to hear them brag about only having to pay the hospital $100 for major surgery becuase they don't have a job (by choice in this particular situation) or insurance (by choice in this situation) but they just bought a new car. Or getting government assitance for tuition but using the money to go on vacation and buy clothes and go out and party becuase they actually live at home with mom and dad and so its just free money. Or they collect extended unemployment benefits when they could have had a job with good benefits but they chose not to. And now they are using government assistance to get by because they wanted to be a stay at home mom. But they are working as a nanny under the table.

In all of these cases the individuals are proud of their accomplishments in abusing the system. And I think that is often the case. People that truly need the help and use it as a short term help until they can get back on their feet are humbled by the experience and are not eager to shout it from the rooftops. But I've been behind some of the other people in line pitching a fit and calling all kinds of attention to themselves and demanding managers because they can't use their food stamps to buy beer. And I've watched this happen more than once.

 

[ccgirl]

And a lot of people haven't paid into the system though. A lot of people are just milking the system because they can and because they are lazy. Most of the people that are "judging" know people personally that are abusing the system. And there are a lot of people that are abusing the system.

I get tired of hearing people say that we shouldn't judge because we don't know the real story and maybe its just a hard worker down on their luck. But the reality is that most of the ones abusing the system are proud of it. They are fine with it and proud of their handouts. I know several people just like this. And its nauseating to hear them brag about only having to pay the hospital $100 for major surgery becuase they don't have a job (by choice in this particular situation) or insurance (by choice in this situation) but they just bought a new car. Or getting government assitance for tuition but using the money to go on vacation and buy clothes and go out and party becuase they actually live at home with mom and dad and so its just free money. Or they collect extended unemployment benefits when they could have had a job with good benefits but they chose not to. And now they are using government assistance to get by because they wanted to be a stay at home mom. But they are working as a nanny under the table.

In all of these cases the individuals are proud of their accomplishments in abusing the system. And I think that is often the case. People that truly need the help and use it as a short term help until they can get back on their feet are humbled by the experience and are not eager to shout it from the rooftops. But I've been behind some of the other people in line pitching a fit and calling all kinds of attention to themselves and demanding managers because they can't use their food stamps to buy beer. And I've watched this happen more than once.

I do agree there are those that abuse the system and are proud of it. However, I know many more who are not, through my work volunteering at the food pantry in my town. They are very nice families where one or both parents lost their job, had an unexpected medical situation, or one spouse left the other behind with the children.

All I know is no matter how much the abusers abuse the system, my life is still way better. And, I drive by the "projects" every day to get to my house. So, I see it every day. I still thank my lucky stars I don't need the assistance whether it be because I am down on my luck or just lazy. I am living in a 4BR+ 2,000 sq ft house while they are living in a small apartment. They have no yard. They can't have big cookouts. They can't take numerous trips, they can't eat the lobster, filet mignon etc. They have to budget a lot tighter than I do. Their children do not go to the private school, do the swim club, or soccer, tball, and all the other things my children do. I'm sure there are those that can but...they have to work very hard to make it happen.

I also see those walking from the projects to the local McDonald's to go to work because they don't have a car. They are always very nice and friendly when I order from them. They are working, they just don't make enough to support their family. I really don't mind helping.

 

[Hannathy]

Look into what is happening in Florida for your answers - they're spending far, far more on testing than they're saving on denying applications of those who test positive, a substantial net loss for the taxpayer.

Human services has no such vested interest in making sure welfare recipients are clean, so unless the program is likely to be cost effective there's no justification for it.

If it is too expensive to do everyone then just do 1 out of 100. Do it randomly. That way recipients will never know for sure if they are getting tested or not and it may make some of them think before hand.

I would even go so far as to collect far more samples than I had tested so they don't get wise that it is done so rarely.

The vested interest for human services should be to save my tax money from cheats and drug abusers.

 

[kt_mom]

I do agree there are those that abuse the system and are proud of it. However, I know many more who are not, through my work volunteering at the food pantry in my town. They are very nice families where one or both parents lost their job, had an unexpected medical situation, or one spouse left the other behind with the children.

All I know is no matter how much the abusers abuse the system, my life is still way better. And, I drive by the "projects" every day to get to my house. So, I see it every day. I still thank my lucky stars I don't need the assistance whether it be because I am down on my luck or just lazy. I am living in a 4BR+ 2,000 sq ft house while they are living in a small apartment. They have no yard. They can't have big cookouts. They can't take numerous trips, they can't eat the lobster, filet mignon etc. They have to budget a lot tighter than I do. Their children do not go to the private school, do the swim club, or soccer, tball, and all the other things my children do. I'm sure there are those that can but...they have to work very hard to make it happen.

I also see those walking from the projects to the local McDonald's to go to work because they don't have a car. They are always very nice and friendly when I order from them. They are working, they just don't make enough to support their family. I really don't mind helping.

Oh don't get me wrong. I'm very thankful that I don't need assistance. I would much rather be in a postion to pay in then have to collect out. I'm thankful for what I have and what my DH and I can provide for our family. We are not rich by any means, but we are blessed. And we give back.

But not everyone that pays in can afford a big house, private school or cookouts with filet and lobster.

And not everyone that is collecting and living in a small apartment on government assistance is unhappy about it. Many are perfectly happy as long as they don't have to take personal responsibility for their lives and can just hold their hand out. And there are a lot of them and they work harder finding ways to keep their handouts then actually trying to better their lives. I see it and hear it everyday.

 

[leahjade]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c2kGPdxkofo

I found this very enlightening!

 

[eliza61]

Aaah the monthly rant against those on welfare.

And this is why I love self-checkout lines! No waiting behind gossiping cashiers discussing things which are none of their business and holding up the line.

 

[leahjade]

My state if starting a program to take into account a person's assets before receiving food stamps. Unbelievable that this hasn't been done before. My friend who works for the welfare office said one family was getting benefits while driving a Lexus with $200,000 in the bank because they had no income and this was not an isolated incident!

 

[eliza61]

Just curious how the system works.

And here was the cashiers statement "I don't see how the country is going to survive much more of these hand outs. I work, and I do not spend near the amount of money on groceries a month as the goverment is handing out for free to these folks that havent even took the time to even look for a job"

Op, did you ask the cashier how she knows if these folks are looking for work or not?

 

[eliza61]

My state if starting a program to take into account a person's assets before receiving food stamps. Unbelievable that this hasn't been done before. My friend who works for the welfare office said one family was getting benefits while driving a Lexus with $200,000 in the bank because they had no income and this was not an isolated incident!

How old is the lexus? Was the lexus paid for? Was it a gift?

How does your friend know how much they have in the bank? Applications generally ask how much you have in savings but if the person does not state it, you friend would not legally be able to search for her assets so how does she know this?

Here are the general guidelines. so either your friend is illegally allowing fraud to happen or she has no idea what she's talking about.

Resources: Most households are exempt from the resource limit. In addition, individuals who receive Supplemental Security Income (SSI) or households including anyone who receives Family Independence Temporary Assistance Program (FITAP), Kinship Care Subsidy Program (KCSP), or Strategies to Empower People (STEP) Program benefits are exempt from the resource limit. Households not exempt from the resource limit may have up to $2000 in resources, such as a bank account. Non-exempt households that include at least one household member who is age 60 or older or includes a disabled member may have up to $3250 in resources.

Households are not exempt from the resource limit if:

Any member is disqualified for Intentional Program Violation,
Any member of the household is ineligible because of a drug-related felony, or
The household is disqualified for failing to comply with work registration requirements.

The following individuals are not exempt from the resource limit:

An ineligible alien,
An ineligible student,
An individual who is disqualified for failure to comply with work registration requirements,
An individual who is disqualified for failure to provide or apply for a social security number, and
An individual who is on strike.
Income: Households must meet income tests (unless any member is receiving FITAP, KCSP, STEP benefits, or all members are receiving SSI).
Most households must meet both the gross and net income tests, but a household with a person who is 60 years old or older or a person who is receiving certain types of disability payments only has to meet the net income test.
Gross income means a household's total, non-excluded income, before any deductions have been made. Net income means gross income minus allowable deductions. Households, except those noted, that have income over the amounts listed below cannot get SNAP benefits.

Does she realize that she is supposed to report all instances of fraud? Just trying to figure out how she knows all these people with 200K in the bank and not reporting it.

Here is the link to qualifications.

http://www.ssa.gov/pubs/10101.pdf

Follow the "what you can own" paragraph.