Flexibility an asset worth paying for?

[Brits Abroad]

As a newcomer to both DVC and this forum (I just returned home to the UK today from Orlando with a much lighter wallet but with a pretty picture of a property in which I apparently now own a stake!) I can't help but noticing a recurring theme in the postings here - namely the view that it isn't worth buying into DVC unless you plan on staying at Disney resorts on a REGULAR basis.

Now here's a problem for me, because I bought into DVC with no such intention. Indeed, precisely the opposite - I have no kids and quite frankly I doubt that I'll stay at a Disney resort more than once every four or five years at most. So why pay more for a DVC timeshare, when I could have picked up time in just about any other worldwide location for a great deal less?

The answer? Because I thought that "location" was the very essence of shared property. I come from Europe, where timeshares have a lousy (and I mean lousy) reputation. Apart from the escalating service charge issue, this is in large part because the "tradeability" of one's timeshare frequently proves to a figment of a rabid salesperson's imagination. I went for Disney because I am banking on it having genuine buying power in the exchange market - but with the fallback that, if I'm wrong, I can always "resort" to staying at a Disney location if I have to.

Reading the postings here has got me concerned that my logic must somehow be fundamentally flawed, and I just didn't see it.

Anyone care to offer some reassurance?

 

[CaptainMidnight]

Another point is the Disney management philosophy, and given their approach, the future success of the company. The more you understand about how Disney runs thier operations, the values they hold, the ownership they engender in their own staff (despite some possible concerns about recent high level mgmt directions) , the more faith you have in the organization as a whole and it's financial future.

I understand that many other timeshares desire to trade into DVC resorts, so that DVC does have good trading power. I'd be interested in more discussion of your question as well.

 

[Dean]

I'm afraid that I do not agree with your assumptions. You lose most of the flexibility with II exchanges. You can only exchange to some 10% of the resorts II has available. It's a VERY high cost exchanging ownership both in terms of upfront cost and yearly fees. You can always rent from a member or directly from Disney if you want to stay every few years. You assumption that DVC is going to be ahead of everyone else in the exchange ladder is mostly wrong. While it has very good exchange power, so do other resorts. Internal trading such as with Marriott will also always be ahead of you.

You cannot trade up in size, no bonus weeks and you don't get the wish book from II. You cannot call II directly to discuss any of the matters that come up. It doesn't sound like DVC is for you, at least not as you have stated you would use it. If you can cancel, I'd seriously consider doing so. If not, learn the intricacies of the exchange system and plan 2 years ahead for all exchanges.

 

[Werner Weiss]

Yes, DVC should be an excellent "trader" -- allowing you to trade into many of the best timeshare resorts in the world, as long as they're in DVC's list of the world's best Interval International (II) affiliated properties.

Trading power is based on various factors, including the number of people who want to trade into a given property, as well as the quality of the property itself. On that basis, DVC should have outstanding trading power.

One great thing about DVC resorts is that you can trade a week with the minimum attributes needed to complete a trade. If you're trading into a studio or 1BR, you only have to trade an equivalent week in a DVC studio or 1BR -- so you might me able to get a great studio somewhere for just 85 points or so. (With most timeshares, your ownership is a week, not a set of points that renews every year, so owners of those timeshares have to trade their entire year's ownership, regardless of the size of unit, season, or location they're trading to.)

Other good news is that you don't have to join II directly, you don't have to pay for trades until they are confirmed (rather than paying at the time you make your request), and paying only a $75 fee for each exchange.

So everything is wonderful, right?

Well, not 100%.

First, DVC is an expensive timeshare resort with high annual fees. Various people on this board think DVC is too expensive to use primarily for trading.

Next, unlike other highly desirable timeshare resorts, you don't get an II bonus week. A bonus week -- which less-than-honest timeshare salepeople sometimes describe as a "two for one exchange" -- is a second week for a $199 fee, with much more restrictive exchange rules than the first week. Still, a bonus week can be a good deal -- and you won't get one with DVC.

Then, around 50 of the world's best timeshares are part of Marriott Vacation Club International (MVCI). Due to an exchange priority within II for MVCI owners, many of the most desirable weeks are grabbed by other MVCI owners, even if you're in a position to offer a more desirable week in exchange, such as a DVC week. The chance of a non-MVCI owner successfully exchanging into a prime season week at a place like Marriott's Maui Ocean Club is almost zero.

Also, because you're not an II member with an II membership number, you can't take advantage of II Getaways. II's Getaway program allows you to book II resorts for cash, typically for US $200-$700, for a full week. 19 months ago, we booked a Spring break week at Marriott's Manor Club in Williamsburg (a wonderful property) for $640.

Finally, the five DVC resorts are so wonderful that very few of the world's timeshares truly measure up, even if they're on DVC's list.

I'm sure Dean will have some insightful thoughts (if he hasn't already posted while I was composing this response).

 

[Dean]

Werner, our posts crossed online, so to speak. We worded it differently but essentially I think have the same feeling. A small point is that the chances of trading up in unit size with DVC is very slim due to the structure of the system. While you could ask for a studio at places that have them and might be offered a 1 BR instead, you cannot ask for a 1 BR for places that only have 2 BR units. Another points I didn't hit hard enough was the yearly fees. At $1200 or so on enough points for a 2 BR evry year, it's double, triple even quadruple what many other great trading timeshares are.

Were I just starting out and not interested in going to Disney every year or two, I would consider a Marriott at $6-7K for trading or one of the newer ones at $15-20K mostly for using. If I were flexible on unit size and exchange seasons, I'd look at one that gets a bonus week and/or has a lockout feature. I do love DVC but not for the type of uses in this thread.

 

[RobDoc]

I can echo the coments of Dean and Werner, but will also offer a few of my own.

The flexibility which DVC offers is an important aspect of the program. I define flexibility as our ability to reserve as little as 1 night at a resort (both DVC and Concierge Collection). The option to utilize the World Passport Collection (II exchanges) also provides the same flexibility as does the Disney Collection. However, this flexibility, IMO, is NOT without a cost- as already explained by others.

As another who owns other timeshares, there are far less costly means to accomplish the World Passport option which DVC offers-- and this is the aspect which has earned the comments about the exchange aspects of DVC. The II arrangement, designed to provide a level of consistency in resort options, does limit, to a degree, what is available. As Dean explains, due to the limits of other Timeshare organizations, like Marriott, DVC does not have equal access to resorts as those within that system.

Having said this, DVC certainly offers a great value at the DVC resorts and the flexibility (there's that word again), does provide nice choices for those who wish to try other vacation options as an occasional variance, but to buy DVC specifically to use as an exchange vehicle may prove to be a more costly way to utilize the program....not a wrong reason to buy DVC, but possibly a more costly usage.

Is flexibility an asset worth paying for?.........IMO, definitely- but we each need to define which aspects of the flexibilty are of true value to us. We may each have a differnent definition of that flexibility, based on it's importance in our own expectations.

Enjoy!

 

[stlrod]

May I second, third or perhaps fourth that motion. If you are looking for II trades, DVC is not the way to go. As has already been pointed out, others will have priority. It is also important to emphasize what Dean commented upon, the trading options you have are very limited. Only the "best" II properties are availble for trades. There are many other properties not listed which are quite good. Some, such as the Marriott in Palm Beach, are excluded for unknown reasons (my guess is the close proximity to Vero.) Keep in mind that while DVC lists only the "best" properties, these are the properties that EVERYBODY wants. I own a Marriott and have had trouble getting into Kauai or Maui. I finally got there by buying an excess week from II which is something a DVC member cannot do. (And since this particular excess week was for Marriott's Kauai Beach, only a Marriott owner could get it a year out.)