Flamingo Crossing Construction begins Oct 16

[Horace Horsecollar]

This won't be the actual flamingo crossings plan this is just some hotels that will be geared at the wide world of sports crowd. Nothing else right now is planned besides those hotels.

It wouldn't surprise me to see a grocery or some other services go in as well, but yeah, nothing like the original idea.

Actually, it's exactly like the original idea -- only the development is going much more slowly.

The plan was always for Flamingo Crossings to be a real estate project beyond WDW gates (without Disney branding), with outside developers buying sites for limited-service chain hotels, non-DVC timeshare projects, strip malls, chain stores, and chain restaurants.

 

[mvk]

This park is for 6-7 years down the road,that's a long time away.If Disney doesn't have a park opening or opened by 2021 they're going to be playing second fiddle to Universal as Universal at the rate they're going might have 4 parks by then along with that other project by Grand Southern Studios.You can't go 20+ years without building a new park.All these things they plan on doing to DHS,AK and Epcot are must dos but they're going to have to expand more besides that.

Ummm, no. Universal has a looooooooooooooong way to go before even getting close to Disney. Even at the 'growth rate' they had the last couple of years, they were still getting less new guests than Disney. You can't catch up like that, let alone surpass.

Universal is pretty much maxed out as it is in terms of land in their current location.

And by the way, Universal hasn't opened up a new park in Orlando since 1999.

 

[rteetz]

This park is for 6-7 years down the road,that's a long time away.If Disney doesn't have a park opening or opened by 2021 they're going to be playing second fiddle to Universal as Universal at the rate they're going might have 4 parks by then along with that other project by Grand Southern Studios.You can't go 20+ years without building a new park.All these things they plan on doing to DHS,AK and Epcot are must dos but they're going to have to expand more besides that.

Mmmm where could universal put a third and fourth park? The biggest thing they have going for them is the rumored water park and three resorts. Disney has four parks, two water parks and 20 resorts. Universal two parks, 1 water park, 5 resorts. I'm pretty sure you can go 20 years without building a park disney hasn't built one in WDW in 16 years. Besides frozen there are no plans for Epcot and they need more than frozen. AK is getting much needed infrastructure and expansion, DHS will most likely get big improvements over the next 5-6 years as well. Disney's California adventure opened in 2001. Disneyland survived extremely well by itself for 40+ years before DCA was built. Disney is also expanding and making huge improvement to DTD, and DVC is still expanding. Disney brings in record profits all the time.

 

[rteetz]

Actually, it's exactly like the original idea -- only the development is going much more slowly. The plan was always for Flamingo Crossings to be a real estate project beyond WDW gates (without Disney branding), with outside developers buying sites for limited-service chain hotels, non-DVC timeshare projects, strip malls, chain stores, and chain restaurants.

I don't think it's exactly like the original idea but it most likely will end up being similar. The original idea was supposed to be DTD without any disney basically. The hotels will definitely bring in others but I think it will be mostly hotels, a few restaurants, and a few stores.

 

[DOOM1001]

Ummm, no. Universal has a looooooooooooooong way to go before even getting close to Disney. Even at the 'growth rate' they had the last couple of years, they were still getting less new guests than Disney. You can't catch up like that, let alone surpass.

Universal is pretty much maxed out as it is in terms of land in their current location.

And by the way, Universal hasn't opened up a new park in Orlando since 1999.

If you think Universal hasn't purchased or is purchasing land across I-4 near I-Drive and Universal blvd you're blind.There's already been rumors out there on the locations,trust me when I say a 3rd park will be built before Disney builds a new one and will force Disney to build a 5th.Yes Disney's parks need help but they have a 20 year plan with a new park in there,when they see Universal inch closer to them they will be forced to go forward with it.

 

[DanBoris]

Just saw this. Wish it was true, but probably not.

It would make sense to open a 5th gate, or at least announce it for the 50th anniversary though.

This article seems to be based on the Screamscape article which itself is based on incorrect facts. The Screamscape article says this:

"Overall it seems they own over 3,000 acres out there now and filed a huge 900 page application to show off how they are planning to develop it"

and then the WDWNT article repeats the 3000 acre number. The only reference to a 3000 acre plot of land in that application they mention is land Disney is buy well south of WDW's main property that is going to be used for conservation. Flamingo Crossing was originally planned to be 450 acres and the plot of land Disney owns just beyond it is only around 500 acres.

The WDWNT and Screamscape articles also talk about recent land purchased just beyond Flamingo Crossing. This land has been owned by Disney in 1993, the only change was that it was recently added to RCID's master water management plan.

Beyond all this, I don't know why Disney would allow third party developers to come in and build low end hotels at Flaming Crossing, if they have plans to put a 5th theme park right next door.

 

[rteetz]

If you think Universal hasn't purchased or is purchasing land across I-4 near I-Drive and Universal blvd you're blind.There's already been rumors out there on the locations,trust me when I say a 3rd park will be built before Disney builds a new one and will force Disney to build a 5th.Yes Disney's parks need help but they have a 20 year plan with a new park in there,when they see Universal inch closer to them they will be forced to go forward with it.

of course they have a 10-20 year plan most major companies do. The universal third park rumors have been out there for years and nothing has happened. They don't have a lot of land it's pretty simple. There are strong rumors a water park is coming called volcano bay and they have land for that but not enough for a large major park.

 

[OldsDr]

This park is for 6-7 years down the road,that's a long time away.If Disney doesn't have a park opening or opened by 2021 they're going to be playing second fiddle to Universal as Universal at the rate they're going might have 4 parks by then along with that other project by Grand Southern Studios.You can't go 20+ years without building a new park.All these things they plan on doing to DHS,AK and Epcot are must dos but they're going to have to expand more besides that.

What poeple will go to this park to make it profitable. How do you open a 5th gate at WDW without shrinking attendance at the other 4? Then to pay for that 5th gate tickets prices for admission have to go up, the price of a park hopper goes up and MK and epcot attendance levels go down because people spend time at this 5th gate instead of those two. Then that will make US look like an even Bigger threat. Nope, I would much rather they put the cost of a third park into investments into the current 4. It will be a much better product in the end. (not that i believe they will do the later either)

 

[WDW1979]

Besides frozen there are no plans for Epcot and they need more than frozen.

I agree. I am very happy with Magic Kingdom and have fond feelings for Epcot, though I would love a significant number of new attractions at Epcot (adding countries, or adding movies or shows or rides to current countries that do not currently have any, or things like a new Horizons or Journey Into Imagination that would fill people with wonder).

My family no longer feels a pull toward Animal Kingdom or DHS. As Avatar has no appeal to me or my family, AK will remain a seldon visited park for us for a long time, and same for DHS until they do something like add a major Star Wars Land plus maybe more Indiana Jones and Muppets stuff. More than just one new ride is needed at DHS, IMHO.

 

[Horace Horsecollar]

I don't think it's exactly like the original idea but it most likely will end up being similar. The original idea was supposed to be DTD without any disney basically. The hotels will definitely bring in others but I think it will be mostly hotels, a few restaurants, and a few stores.

Can you produce any press release, web page, archived web page, or newspaper article which describes a configuration for Flamingo Crossings that could reasonably considered "to be DTD without any disney basically" or in which Disney refers to Flamingo Crossings as similar to Downtown Disney?

Flamingo Crossings was (and still is) a Disney real estate play to monetize property on the "wrong side" of the Western Beltway. The roads were built as originally planned.

Fans have long referred to Flamingo Crossings is "another Downtown Disney" because of its size and its reliance on outside companies. But that doesn't mean Disney ever considered it to be a second shopping village in the tradition of Downtown Disney.

 

[Q-man]

What poeple will go to this park to make it profitable. How do you open a 5th gate at WDW without shrinking attendance at the other 4? Then to pay for that 5th gate tickets prices for admission have to go up, the price of a park hopper goes up and MK and epcot attendance levels go down because people spend time at this 5th gate instead of those two. Then that will make US look like an even Bigger threat. Nope, I would much rather they put the cost of a third park into investments into the current 4. It will be a much better product in the end. (not that i believe they will do the later either)

'Cause they presently have to ration rides via FP+? If Disney keeps adding rooms they need a place for the additional load to go other than to parks where they are already rationing rides. Lower the crowds/waits at the other parks, MK in particular, and customer satisfaction goes up. Disney coasted for years and squeezed out every penny and now they have competition across town, at Universal, and have to change their business plan.

If there is a 5th gate then thrill rides are what most people think Disney lacks and is the front US is killing them on. Seems like an opportune place to address that and keep teens, and other thrill seekers, on property instead of them going over to US while not upseting the traditionalists in the process. Villains and Heroes seems like a pretty natural theme for a thrill ride oriented park.

Building value suite style hotels, first, to house construction crews for a big build out makes sense.

 

[rteetz]

I agree. I am very happy with Magic Kingdom and have fond feelings for Epcot, though I would love a significant number of new attractions at Epcot (adding countries, or adding movies or shows or rides to current countries that do not currently have any, or things like a new Horizons or Journey Into Imagination that would fill people with wonder). My family no longer feels a pull toward Animal Kingdom or DHS. As Avatar has no appeal to me or my family, AK will remain a seldon visited park for us for a long time, and same for DHS until they do something like add a major Star Wars Land plus maybe more Indiana Jones and Muppets stuff. More than just one new ride is needed at DHS, IMHO.

I'm not a huge avatar fan either but I'm excited for the avatar expansion because it brings much more than just avatar. It brings a new night life to the park, night safari, night show etc. and it will be especially good if they bring a true e ticket to AK as well.

 

[rteetz]

Can you produce any press release, web page, archived web page, or newspaper article which describes a configuration for Flamingo Crossings that could reasonably considered "to be DTD without any disney basically" or in which Disney refers to Flamingo Crossings as similar to Downtown Disney? Flamingo Crossings was (and still is) a Disney real estate play to monetize property on the "wrong side" of the Western Beltway. The roads were built as originally planned. Fans have long referred to Flamingo Crossings is "another Downtown Disney" because of its size and its reliance on outside companies. But that doesn't mean Disney ever considered it to be a second shopping village in the tradition of Downtown Disney.

Well the concept art makes it look like a shopping district

 

[crazy4wdw]

Sorry, added some info that was already posted on the thread.

 

[anthony2k7]

I don't think it's exactly like the original idea but it most likely will end up being similar. The original idea was supposed to be DTD without any disney basically. The hotels will definitely bring in others but I think it will be mostly hotels, a few restaurants, and a few stores.

Surely Disney to be encouraging a 3rd party non-Disney DTD close to Disney property at the same time they are basically rebuilding DTD would be a bad idea?

 

[Planogirl]

It looks like Flamingo Crossing will just be chain hotels. Does that area really need more of those?

As for Universal, there are rumors that they might be looking at buying more land or even doing something with SeaWorld. I can't imagine how they'd handle a fifth gate across I-4 or that they'd get rid of Wet 'n Wild.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

It looks like Flamingo Crossing will just be chain hotels. Does that area really need more of those? As for Universal, there are rumors that they might be looking at buying more land or even doing something with SeaWorld. I can't imagine how they'd handle a fifth gate across I-4 or that they'd get rid of Wet 'n Wild.

Does disney collect fees from any of the other 400 chain hotels in town?

There's your answer

And if universal we're to move on sea world and loosely connect the two... They could pull 50% market share with the right moves. That would reset the scoreboard in Orlando.

 

[Planogirl]

Does disney collect fees from any of the other 400 chain hotels in town?
There's your answer

And if universal we're to move on sea world and loosely connect the two... They could pull 50% market share with the right moves. That would reset the scoreboard in Orlando.

Disney could collect fees but these hotels would likely charge more so what would be the lure for the traveler? I'd rather stay at the Marriott around the corner than pay more (it is a Disney project after all) at a Marriott at this place. At least until I hear that there will be something more.

 

[OldsDr]

'Cause they presently have to ration rides via FP+? If Disney keeps adding rooms they need a place for the additional load to go other than to parks where they are already rationing rides. Lower the crowds/waits at the other parks, MK in particular, and customer satisfaction goes up. Disney coasted for years and squeezed out every penny and now they have competition across town, at Universal, and have to change their business plan.

If there is a 5th gate then thrill rides are what most people think Disney lacks and is the front US is killing them on. Seems like an opportune place to address that and keep teens, and other thrill seekers, on property instead of them going over to US while not upseting the traditionalists in the process. Villains and Heroes seems like a pretty natural theme for a thrill ride oriented park.

Building value suite style hotels, first, to house construction crews for a big build out makes sense.

This makes sense when and only when most people can go to WDW for about 12 days and they have built the existing 4 up to what they could be. Adding attractions at the existing 4 will increase capacity without the added overhead of a completely new park. But when most people only take 5 to 7 days’ worth of vacations having them skip a day at an existing park to go to a new one does not make financial sense. Customer satisfaction can be better served by improving the experience at the current 4 parks.

 

[faneuil]

This makes sense when and only when most people can go to WDW for about 12 days and they have built the existing 4 up to what they could be. Adding attractions at the existing 4 will increase capacity without the added overhead of a completely new park. But when most people only take 5 to 7 days’ worth of vacations having them skip a day at an existing park to go to a new one does not make financial sense. Customer satisfaction can be better served by improving the experience at the current 4 parks.

It actually encourages people to come again because they didn't "see it all". Which, in many respects, is already an issue at WDW - if you include all the non-park things you can do. It's clever of Disney, and for a long time, worked brilliantly well. I'm not so certain it works as well any more.

For the most part, it's Americans who take only a week off at a time. My community has some rental homes, and it's not unheard of for a family from Europe or South America to stay a month.

But I agree, they need to improve the experience in the 4 existing parks before building a 5th.