First "REAL" Family Vacation - Dec 2007

[Ageout96]

Well, we're back! We've actually been back - and have already booked our next trip

It was a long and exhausting adventure, but we would all do it again tomorrow! We took close to 1,200 pictures which we would gladly subject you to if you lived anywhere close to us!

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CAST OF CHARACTERS (and I mean that literally):

Don (aka Daddy): Don works in the music industry. He is the Product Manager for Pro-Mark which is the #1 drumstick manufacturer in the world. His job is - more or less - designing drumsticks and mallets. He also teaches A LOT of high school drumline and founded an independent winter drumline years ago. (Insert shameless plug here [they are the winning-est drumline is WGI history ... Music City Mystique]) ... But enough about him!
Favorite character: Goofy
Favorite ride: Mickey's Philharmagic
Loves all things Disney. Disney history buff. Official trip photographer #1. Former Goofy CastMember.

Stephanie (aka Mommy): I work for a mega-church in a Houston suburb as a writer/editor and project manager. I've taught dance and color guard for more years than I'll admit - I love anything artsy and dance-y, and can't wait to be a stage mom for my daughter when she gets involved!
Favorite character: Mary Poppins
Favorite ride: Mickey's Philharmagic
Loves all things Disney. Loves looking for "hidden Mickey's" in the park. Official trip photographer #2. Fanatic Disney shopper.

Avery (aka Lightning McQueen): Age 4. Avery is pretty much the perfect child. Easy-going, not hard to please, it's fabulous to watch him experience things as he's very animated with his surprise emotions and at times during this trip will just jump up and down for the sheer reason that he can't come up with the words to explain how excited he is!
Favorite character: Lightning McQueen
Favorite ride: The Monorail and The People Mover (a tie!)
Loves all things Disney. Loved every ride more than the last. Has added Monorail Driver to the list of things he will be when he grows up. Official "ride till I drop" member!

Piper (aka Cinderella): Age 3. Piper is quite the diva. She is very well-behaved, but extremely well spoken for three years old and very opinionated. She was excited about this trip because Avery was excited. Her attention span is usually that of a knat, and she has a bladder the size of a pea. But, she makes our adventures comical, so we love her to death!
Favorite character: Minnie Mouse
Favorite ride: Goofy's Rollercoaster
Hater of all fireworks – big and small. Hater of all loud noises. Loves all things girly-Disney. Lover of all things that Avery loves (with the exception of fireworks and loud noises).

This is us IRL ... UPDATE: WOW, Don has lost 60 pounds since this trip, and I've lost 15 ... It just hit me when I saw this picture that we aren't the Fatty McFat Family anymore. Go us!!!

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Day One: We left our house at 2:50AM. Anyone that knows me (and Piper) knows that sleep is highly valued. I've heard my MIL say before "I only get up this early to have a baby or go on vacation." I live by that motto as well! We boarded the plane at 5:45ish after parking off-site and lugging 4 suitcases, 2 kids, and other various assortments of carry-on "things" into the airport. I was so glad that the kids were awake when we got to our parking site. We absolutely could not have carried them with all of our other stuff!

I called "dibs" on sitting by Piper on the plane the day I found out we were leaving at 5:45AM. She loves to sleep, so I knew that between the two of us – we could make a nest and never miss a wink until we arrived in Orlando. And, as luck would have it, that's EXACTLY what happened. We were both back to sleep before the plane even took off!!! Avery, however, never went back to sleep. He propped himself up in a window seat, got a carton of milk, and watched the sunrise over probably as many as four states!!! Don says that he looked adorable and never missed a beat the whole plane ride. Piper and I took his word for it.

Once we arrived, we boarded the "Magical Express". This is one of those many thousand things that Disney does right. Magical Express was included in our vacation package, and basically means that once you board the plane – Disney does the rest. When our plane landed, we went down to a desk to check in and let the "Magical Express" people know that we had arrived and the next thing we know, we're on a nice charter bus on our way to our hotel. (Disney will get your checked bags for you and deliver them to your room within 3 hours of your arrival.) It was so nice not having to battle with that conveyor belt to find my luggage which always looks like everyone else's!

Once we checked into our hotel (Disney's All Star Movies), we found out that we had gotten our requested area of the hotel – Toy Story: Andy's Room. The best part is that our room was 1) on the first floor; 2) on the corner; and 3) right at the base of Buzz Lightyear's foot. Now, this Buzz Lightyear is not like your typical Buzz – he's a three-story Buzz. Avery was so excited! Piper was so excited! We opened the door to our room and it was definitely "movie themed"! We had Toy Story wallpaper border, comforters with various Disney movie scenes, a Popcorn box lamp, etc. The kids thought it was SUPER cool! It was definitely the beginning of a good hotel experience for us.

By this time, we were ready for lunch and decided to hit the hotel food court. They had a good selection, and the food was very fresh and hot. Everyone was very helpful in assisting us with what came with our lunch (we had the Disney Dining plan) and found out quickly that the dining plan includes A LOT of food! After we finished lunch, we couldn't wait to get a nap!

At 5:45 PM, we had a Photopass photo session at the Grand Floridian Hotel (also on Disney property). I couldn't believe how beautiful the hotel looked with all the decorations and a huge, huge Christmas tree! They also had a full size Gingerbread house. We went all over the grounds for our session – it was almost like a mini-tour! We had some time afterward to walk out to their pier and enjoy the sunset. It was beautiful out there! The highlight ended up being that we had the best seat in the house for the fireworks at the Magic Kingdom. Others must have known this before us, because they had speakers on top of the small building pumping in the music that they play over the speakers at the MK! It was awesome!!!

Here are some photos from the GF session:

We had dinner reservations at Chef Mickey's at 8:00 PM. It was in the Contemporary, so we got to have our first monorail ride! Avery and Piper had become infatuated with the monorails online, so they were thrilled. They had repeated over and over all the monorail colors – they knew them by heart, and couldn't wait to see which one they got to ride. Both kids were beyond thrilled for their first ride to be on Monorail Purple – Piper's favorite!!!

Once we got to the restaurant, we were excited to see that the buffet had lots of selection and that the restaurant wasn't so packed that we couldn't spend time with the characters! That night we saw Mickey, Minnie, Goofy, Donald Duck and Pluto. It was great to knock out five main characters with pictures and autographs before we even stepped into a park!!! Piper was terrified of everyone but Minnie. She ended up sitting in my lap most of the time. As the characters came, she would just tremble. Once they got to our table, I could hold her and take her to them and she would do ok with getting a picture. But, she absolutely WAS NOT going to touch them or allow them to touch her. Avery, my shy child, on the other hand – all but leapt toward them! He loved each and every one. He hugged them, he watched intently as they signed their names in his autograph book – he loved every minute of it!

One of the cutest things about Chef Mickey's is that when the characters enter your area, they play a special song introducing the guests … and since Mickey is the Chef, you wave your napkin in the air as he walks quickly through (just like you were at a 5-star restaurant and the chef came out!) The kids thought that this was hysterical and the funniest thing in the world. I thought that Avery was going to break his wrist at one point he was waving his towel so hard. He was too cute!

As we were leaving, Piper told me that she really wanted to see Mickey one more time … and that she wouldn't be scared. I told her that Mickey wasn't in our section and that if we interrupted another table, then she couldn't change her mind about talking to him because that would be rude. She promised she wouldn't be scared. So, I went and grabbed Mickey in between tables and explained that she had been scared earlier, but wasn't any longer. Mickey shook his head and put up his hand to give her a high-five which she did immediately. Then, he bent down and kissed her on the cheek. She was so happy. She kept saying "Mickey got me a kiss" over and over!

We got back to the room around 11:00 PM. Needless to say, we were all exhausted, and I'd be afraid to even guess who fell asleep first. But it was a great first day and we were definitely ready to hit the ground running the next day!

... more soon!

 

[Ageout96]

I found this on my blog and thought it was interesting ... I'm sure I'll remember more that I did pre-trip as I write this:

Tuesday, November 20, 2007
Lots of lots-ofs

First things first - we leave for Disney in 13 days. I apologize with the continuous countdown, but you only have to endure it for the next two weeks. Then, that will be quickly replaced with the hundreds of photos. See ... it gets better!!! It is a definite toss-up to see who at my house is most excited. Don is beside himself with planning which is a complete change for me who usually has to dominate all things that do with scheduling. I am completely OCD + when it comes to controlling agendas. However, I have had no time to do this and he has taken control beautifully Avery and Piper (thanks to YouTube) know every detail about every ride, every attraction, every parade. They have watched hours upon hours of videos with their dad preparing. I have watched none fearing that it will ruin the first-time experience for me. (I've been there before, but Avery was 6 weeks old and I have no memory of it at all. I can remember riding "It's a Small World" and that really is the only memory I have. Blame it on postpartum!)

-----

I did, however, read all the board topics about preparing and got on-board a little late to do a lot of things that I will do next time. Here are the best things I did:

(1) I bought a 24-pack of bottled water, a case of Pop-Tarts, and a giant bag of peanut M&M's from Staples and had it shipped to our room. Waiting upon arrival. Free shipping

The water we took into the park each day. (I also brought individual packets of Crystal Light mix because I HATE the taste of plain water!) The pop-tarts you can heat in the toasters in the food court of your hotel. Fabulous. I brought snack sized ziploc bags and divided the M&M's into those for quick pick-me ups! Since it was December, it wasn't hot (although it was warm enough for shorts), and nothing ever melted.

(2) I pre-bought all the kids toys. I spent about $60 and bought 7-8 shirts for the kids, 2 Mr. Potato Heads, a Cinderella dress for the BBB, and a load of other little "stuff". $5 shipping was a plus too. The kids were completely satisfied and thought that Mickey brought all of the stuff to their room! We bought very very little (less than $30) souvies in the park!

 

[natcat]

Great start
I would have to agree that Philharmagic is really a great attraction
I'm looking forward to reading more

 

[DisneyFairy66]

how exciting does chef mickeys look!!!!!!!! your kids are gorgous I love your picture session at GF.... cant wait to read more

 

[DisneyFairy66]

how did you set up the photo pass session, I would like to do that.

 

[IATink]

You have a beautiful family! The pictures are all great. Can't wait to read more about your trip!

Congratulations on the weight loss, too!

 

[MousekaMaddi]

great start, keep it coming

 

[Sooze]

Hey Stephanie!!! I'm here!! So happy you're reporting about this trip. Then you can get started on the next one, right?

Congrats on the weight loss... will you post pictures of your new, svelt self?!

Your kids are just beautiful. It's hard to believe Piper is that big already... I remember when she was just a wee one in your belly at camp!!

Ready for more!

 

[Ageout96]

Hi readers ... I feel like I know you all now that I've read your all's reports as well. (Well, Sooze, I do know you IRL ... thanks for the push to do this

ok, folks - Day Two

Thanks for staying with me … Trust me, it get’s interesting before long!

Where were we?

So, we wake up bright-eyed and bushy-tailed – ready to go into the MK for the first time (well, as a family that is!) The weather was a little cool, so we layered on jackets and things that we could shed as the sun came out and the fog burned off.

Don took a couple of bags of Pop-Tarts up to the food court to toast and grab himself a plate of breakfast – he’s not a Pop-Tart kind of guy! He brought that back and they ate while I finished getting each backpack loaded with all the necessities – cameras (two digital cameras and one video cam), extra batteries, extra clothes for each kid, ponchos, snacks, a 50-pound dumbbell … what the heck – we had everything else!

Finally, it was time to take off for the bus stop. Remember that we are staying at All-Star Movies … so we’re out in “no-man’s land”. I was thrilled with our bus service each time. There were a couple of times that it was really crowed, but for the most part it was great. The kids were BEYOND thrilled to be on another Mickey bus …

We got into the park with no problems. It was so easy – lines were short and the CMs were happy and welcoming. We rented a double stroller and were off! As soon as we came out from underneath the pass getting the stroller, I was in heaven. I am the world’s biggest fan of Christmas. The park looked more beautiful than I ever could have imagined … I was thrilled.

We were standing right at the cust of Main Street, and as if planned and sent straight from Jesus – here came Mary Poppins and Burt! MY FAVORITES!!!!!!!!!!! I was the biggest three year old in the park. To heck with my kids, I snatched the autograph book and off I went. She was a ringer for Julie Andrews – I was so impressed

On this day, we have two more people to introduce: Granddaddy and Grandmother Sue. These two belong to Don – his dad and step-mom. They live in the Tampa area, so they drove over to see us and spend a couple of hours. They called Don right as I had my fit over Mary, so they were parking and agreed that we would just stay right in the general area where we were so that we would be easy to find.

That turned out to be completely in our favor – no sooner than we moved to get out of the middle of the street than out came Chicken Little. Avery got out the autograph book and took straight for the line. Piper was still a little apprehensive, so we hung back. I figured I’d give her a little breathing room so she wouldn’t be so overwhelmed.

With Chicken Little out of the way, out came Pinocchio – bingo! FOUR CHARACTERS in less than 20 minutes … this is my kind of place Avery, the old pro, jumped right into line again, this time Piper and I joined him.

Soon, Granddaddy and Grandmother Sue (quite a mouthful for preschoolers to say) were with us and we were off!

We headed for Tomorrow Land first.

Nothing truly monumental happened – lots of rides and new experiences! It was so much fun. There really is nothing like seeing everything through the eyes of a child. We did everything the kids wanted to do … regardless!

I do remember that we ate lunch at Pinocchio Village Haus. It was wonderful!!!! Loved it. We will definitely eat there again. Don and I had Grilled Turkey and Bacon Panini, Don had Figaro Fries, and my in-laws had Chicken Caesar Salad. The kids had Turkey/Cheese wraps and grapes. (I got pretty burnt out on fried foods during this trip, so I think that’s why this meal sticks out to me so much.) It's near IASW and Dumbo rides ...

My kids are nappers … Piper especially. Avery fights it a little more, but he’s usually good for one at some point during the afternoon. We had planned to go until someone broke down and we needed to go back to the room. Well, who wants to leave once you’re inside the park???? Avery never did take a nap that day. Piper slept on Grandmother Sue for about 20 minutes during the train ride. That was it – my nearly 2 hour nappers were good to go … and never melted down a single time … Must have been something in the Disney air, because we can’t even go to Wal-Mart if Piper hasn’t had a nap without her having the throw herself on the floor in the middle of an aisle.

So, off we went – we had no ADRs that day. It was a plus just so we could pace ourselves as needed. The park closed at 9:00 PM on this night, and the SpectroMagic parade was at 8:00. We ate dinner around 6:00 PM, then made our way to a good spot and just relaxed for a while. I think both kids dozed off for a bit in the stroller, but were up in plenty of time for the parade.

I found out during this trip that I am a huge parade freak. I LOVED THEM!!! I guess since I’ve marched in two-gazillion parades with band, etc., I’ve never really gotten to watch one. I loved it! I mean … really loved it. The pictures of this parade don’t even come close to doing it justice. Not even close. I’ll share a couple though …

FIRST TEAR ALERT … FIRST TEAR ALERT:
I’ve already shared that I love love love Mary Poppins. Well, who stops right in front of Piper and shakes her hand – Mary Poppins. Piper didn’t know what to think – she was amazed ☺ And before I even realized it, a little tear fell from my eye. I felt like I was living a DisneyWorld commercial. It was exactly what I pictured the perfect trip to be.

Let me also add briefly, that there were some butts chewed out after this parade. One of the producers/directors/someone very important in a leather Disney jacket and with a radio stood directly to the side of us during about 75% of the parade. He was NOT HAPPY. Too many lights weren’t working – cues were missed – a guy got his jacket stuck in the float: (that’s the producer helping him get it “unstuck”).

Needless to say, he was not nearly as full of the Disney happiness as I was after this parade!

After the parade, we ventured over toward the Castle to see it lit for night. Oh my gosh … I really could have gone home after this day and felt totally fulfilled … IT WAS BEAUTIFUL. These Disney folks just know how to do it right. It was the most breathtaking sight I’ve ever seen. You can’t really describe how gorgeous it looks all lit up. I loved it!

It was a LONG first day and we were all ready for sleep ... Tune in for the next installment when we head to the BBB with Miss Piper

 

[Ageout96]

Here's the info on how to set up at session at the Grand Floridan - some of the things might have changed, but here's the contact number I have from my notes! 407-824-1700.

 

[Tera_&_Gibson]

Don't stop now!! Your kids are adorable! What a fun time! I can't wait for the rest!

 

[PrincessToozie]

Your children are soo cute! Cant wait to find out more of the trip!

 

[Sooze]

Sounds like a perfect Disney Day. I'm so glad everything went so well.

You got to see Chicken Little!?!? I've never seen that guy. Tyson would love it! (and with a name like Tyson, you gotta love the Chicken! )

Thanks for the update! Ready for more!

 

[Ageout96]

We've been working like crazy people on our yard. Us Texas-folk have to do that before summer swings into full gear and it hits 95-degrees everyday. Probably around next week!

Well, here we are at Day Three .... Warning - LOTS O'PICTURES!

This was my favorite day of the trip. Loved it. BBB with Piper, and Don and Avery got to have "boy time" at the MK.

A little background on this. We found the BBB for Piper early on in our planning. We knew that there was NO WAY that we would be able to do something special for her and not for Avery. Thankfully, we soon discovered that our petite little diva wouldn't be tall enough for Splash Mountain or Big Thunder Mountain - two things that we wanted to get Avery on so that he wouldn't develop "coaster fear" - something that just wouldn't work for a Click child. So the plan was born ... Mom and Piper to BBB, Avery and Dad to MK - meet up afterward.

I'll do BoyTime first ... Avery was ecstatic to ride BTM and SM - he was so excited Not only did he ride it (more than once that day) - they rode in the front car the first time! He was a cool kid to say the least ...

(Good job, Don snapping the picture before you sat down!)

Look at how wide Avery's eyes are ...!

And now, for Splash Mountain - good job, again, Don, on thinking to put on the ponchos! No one wants to walk around wet for the rest of the day!

The boys bonded and rode rides over and over again - Avery's choice. It was a masculine good time!

 

[Ageout96]

I could just cuss right now I went to copy a photo and accidentally closed the tab where I had all my BBB post typed and was only entering pictures! Now, I'll have to start all over again ...

Where did I start. Well, I'll go a different route this time -

Piper was excited about the BBB - I was even more excited. I had looked forward to this since the day we booked the trip. Every mother that has a dance background longs for the day when her child can get her hair thrown into a bun and pour on some make-up! I am no exception. And, we are now seasoned pros after having lived through Piper's first dance recital last June. I counted down the days and couldn't wait to see my little dancer live on stage!!! I hung her costume with the greatest care and made sure that her bun, make-up and hair were STELLAR for the big show. I was so over the top that I had Don go backstage with Piper for fear that I would turn into the ultimate stage mom ... the one every teacher dreads. (You can thank me now Miss Jamie.)

Check out these pitiful bows on all the other kids. There moms just didn't get it ...

Anyway, back to the BBB. We had an appointment at DTD - MK was booked. We checked in and were introduced to our Fairy Godmother in Training, Holly. She was incredible. Poor Holly ... I had prayed that she would be able to work with Piper's hair. Here is our before shot:

Piper was cursed with her mom's curly hair, ALTHOUGH Piper's hair is an entirely different consistency than mine ... I love her hair, but for someone that doesn't have naturally curly hair - they can view it as a nightmare. Another thing is that Piper's hair can fool you. It looks like it is above shoulder length ... but be not fooled my friend - it is actually down to the middle of her back. We've never cut or even trimmed it. It just curls right up as it dries until she looks like Shirley Temple. I was praying for Holly.

So, the fun started:

Picking the crown ...

See there is that long hair I was telling you about ...

The make-up - she loved that part

And so we come out with the final product ... (picture in a few moments).

Once you are finished, they call over a Fairy Godmother to inspect you and wave her wand and declare you a Princess. I'll admit it ... right here in cyberspace ... I cried. I think just two tears fell, but I could have dropped to the floor weeping had I not have feared being carried out on a stretcher just like Britney Spears. It was - again - like a Disney commercial. My baby was a princess She was just declared one by a real life Fairy Godmother.

So that was me ...

Piper, however, was completely overwhelmed and extremely confused. I'm sure she was thinking "Mom, we could have done this in the bathroom at home." "Why is my mom crying like a complete looney tune?" "Where am I?" (minding again that she's never been a salon, so she has no idea 'what' the concept of a salon is.)

But, being the kind-of mom that I am, I can't take those cues and just go with the flow. We have a photo session lined up and we have to get there before ... well, I'm not sure before what ... but we had to go right then.

Photo session pics next post!

 

[Ageout96]

Here are the photo session pictures. These were taken at the Downtown Disney Welcome Center. They put the pictures on your photopass card, then you can add all the decorative things to them at home. (We kept a plain copy, then a copy with all the graphics - so we have both!)

not great ... but good enough.


Here are some better ones that I took ...

I have to run now, but I'll post the rest of our day tomorrow ... stay tuned for meeting princesses, riding front seat in the monorail, and all kinds of other cool things!

 

[Sooze]

Just waiting for that update

 

[Ageout96]

So sorry ... Mother's Day ... Girl's Night Out ... Work ... It all got in the most way of the most important thing - updating/finishing this trip report so that I can start a pre-trip on our return visit. Geez ...

All was good with the BBB when I last wrote. I took Piper and boarded a bus to the Poly so that we could grab a monorail to the MK. I called Don and had him meet us at the front gate so that they could ooh and aaah over Piper while I high-fived Avery for being such a brave boy. Then, we'd go to grab a bite at a CS restaurant and go on our way for the day. Well - that was the plan.

Avery took one look at Piper and a little boy I've never seen before (or since) revealed himself. He was so sad. Nothing I could say or do made him feel any better. He was beside himself. We went to that diner, oh you know the one, with a kind-of Cosmic theme ... the name has completely left me. Well, that's where we went for lunch. Avery sat silently the whole time. Piper had to go to the bathroom, so Don went with her. Finally, I said what I didn't want to say ... "Avery, are you sad that Piper got to go to the BBB?" His answer ... all of a sudden, as he bursts into tears ... "I JUST WANT A LITTLE GLITTER TOO!!!!!!" You can only imagine how horrified my husband was to hear about this statement. I'm sure that he still cringes at the thought.
Well, Mr. Sadface got over it, but he was still a little sad for the next few hours.

On our way to ... wherever we wanted to go, we ran into Buzz Lightyear. We stood in line and got about 2 people from him when Avery announced that he didn't want to talk to him. This from the child that has watched Toy Story 1 and 2 more times than he's probably brushed his teeth!!! That's how ticked he was about the glitter. Ok - next kid. No, Piperella won't go if her brother won't go. Granted by this time, we are the next people in line. I look and Don and he says "I'll go." What a trooper!!!

So, I'm hacked off at that whole situation, but I'm over it pretty quickly. Having the wonderful luck that we do, we were able to find three princesses out and doing pictures/greetings/etc. Avery wouldn't have a thing to do with them sad2 and Piper was a little apprehensive, but said that she wanted to see them. After the fact, I think that she was just in awe of them. When you go from never seeing a princess in your life to BAM! Here's three live princesses right in front of you ... she was a little taken aback.

These next ones are some of my favorite pictures from the whole trip! Belle is incredible!!! Here she obviously has a little girl that is a little shy about seeing her "live". She was great!!! Belle came up and took Piper's hand and lead her over to the staging area. She told her how beautiful she looked "just like her friend Cinderella". She got right down on the ground at Piper's level, and asked her what her name was and how old she was (you can see Belle holding up three fingers in one picture) - so animated and completely in the moment with her. It was priceless to me. As we were leaving, Belle asked Avery if he wanted a picture with her. We told her what happened with the glitter and she looked at Avery and said "It's ok to like glitter. Peter Pan likes glitter." Low and behold, if our sweet little Avery didn't show up back on the scene. It was ok to like glitter. He could be Peter Pan (in his mind I'm sure he was thinking "who the heck is Peter Pan?"). But it saved the day and that's all we cared about!

 

[Ageout96]

We continued the rest of the day riding all the favorite rides and having a great time. We planned to go to Downtown Disney for dinner at McDonalds and some shopping. We decided to ride the monorail to the Poly and then take a bus from the Poly to DTD.

As luck would have it, we were able to get in the front seat of the monorail. Avery was ECSTATIC!!!!

A tired little Princess.

Shortly after, we arrived at DTD. I love World of Disney. I'm really not a huge shopper, but I love all the unique things that I can only find at World of Disney. And, really all the DTD stores!!! I love them all.

Avery loved the Lego store:

... and so did his sister!

And, Goofy's Candy Store!

We had a great day. It was so much fun. But, we had now entered the middle of our trip and were worn out. Sleep was much needed. This, if I'm not mistaken, was the night that Avery rolled off the bed - didn't wake up - and continued to roll underneath the bed. Don woke up in the night and couldn't find him in the room. Just before he hit the panic button, he noticed a pair of feet sticking out from under the bed - just like the witch in the wizard of Oz. Now that folks is worn out!!!!