Fireworks from CA Grill

[Cannot_Wait_4Disney]

You are right that this policy is draconian.

I said it may seem draconian, which by the context of the rest of the statement, implied that I don't think it is. But let me add here for the record. that I don't think it truly is. It's only draconian if your purpose is to sneak up there without actually paying for anything and interfere with the enjoyment of the paying guests. I for one, don't mind them doing that at all and applaud the move.

From when it opened until Chef Cliff and its opening GM George left, it did not feel the need to do this. The restaurant was always full and one could go out on either pier to watch the fireworks with no problem. This was also when California Grill was receiving its highest ratings. After service and food quality started to slip, Disney began getting many complaints about this restaurant. Instead of addressing their real problem (food and service quality), Disney has taken the easy route with things like dress codes and credit card guarantees.

CA Grill still gets mostly very good reviews and a few bad ones, just as it always has. There isn't a restaurant in the world that pleases everyone.

In addition, their prime reason for these credit card guarantees is that when people are forced to make a reservation for dinner during their theme park vacation six months earlier, they are much less likely to actually show up without some stick forcing them to do so.

You're not forced to make a ressie at all. Of course you'll be shut out, but nobody forces anyone to pick up the phone and that's your choice. And what stick? You can call and cancel all the way until a couple days before without penalty. So if your plans change, you can change them. Doesn't seem all that bad to me. And if this were the primary reason as you suggest, why doesn't every place in the place require the same?

Which brings me to the following question.
You claim the food isn't all that good.
You claim the service is lousy.
You claim the wine list isn't any good.
In another thread, I assume the last time you attempted to try exactly what you are suggesting others do, you had an awful time and were even according to you, harassed.
You have claimed the view is just ok.
So why in the heck are you even suggesting anyone go there in the first place? And indeed, didn't you say you wouldn't go back? So then why are you continuing to waste your time calling and finding yet more end arounds to get yourself up there for what you say is just an ok view and a horrid experience? And why are you even suggesting others do the same?
+++++++++++

Lets say that I want to see the fireworks from California Grill and maybe have a drink or two....since it seems like the food has gone downhill there. The best way to do this is to make a reservation for exactly when the fireworks begins....arrive 15 mins early....be told that we will be seated in about 30 mins....go up to the bar to get a drink...watch the fireworks from the observation deck...and then just leave with some excuse? (i.e. they are making us wait past our ADR time)

If they're beyond their occupancy limit, you will be stuck downstairs. But if all you're going to do up there is watch the show, it's not worth paying $8 for a glass of wine, and going through the trouble to deceive in order to do so. There are plenty of places you can watch the show that aren't crowded and you don't have to pay a dime to get to if that's all you want. And you're also taking the risk that they may immediately have a seat available. Then what do you do?

That having been said,
Here's some more reviews. 87% of the people are suggesting it.
http://allearsnet.com/reviewpost/showproduct.php?product=162&sort=8&cat=43&page=1
Here's some older ones
http://allearsnet.com/din/rev_cg1.htm

I suggest you try it. We had a wonderful time and a really good meal with one exception I noted in my post above this thread.

 

[Simba's Mom]

As an alternative to d-r-a-g-g-i-n-g out the meal (and therefore tieing up a table), are you allowed to go out on the observation deck if you're finished with your meal? Say you finish at 8:30 and "Wishes" is at 9:00. Rather than ordering a bottle of wine or something so you can stay until 9:00, can you just go out on the observation deck? If so, that would free up the table for someone else.

 

[majortom]

It's only draconian if your purpose is to sneak up there without actually paying for anything and interfere with the enjoyment of the paying guests. I for one, don't mind them doing that at all and applaud the move.

No, if one wants to go up just as I suggested, there is no issue. It is only if one plans to go and then due to circumstances, one cannot make it that one gets charged. This policy has no effect on someone that actually shows up at the restaurant.

You may like planning your life six months in advance, others, especially on vacation do not enjoy that.

You're not forced to make a ressie at all. Of course you'll be shut out, but nobody forces anyone to pick up the phone and that's your choice. And what stick? You can call and cancel all the way until a couple days before without penalty. So if your plans change, you can change them. Doesn't seem all that bad to me.

I guess if you feel that making your vacation plans to the level of where you will eat every meal six months in advance is reasonable, than I can see where you would think that changing plans only two days in advance would be reasonable. Most people on vacation do not want to have to plan to that level of detail. Many (most) fine dining restaurants seem to have no problem with no shows. They do things like calling to reconfirm a day or two in advance or slightly overbooking. Their policy about credit card guarantees began after they switched to a 180 reservation window. This seems to be indicate that they are related. Just to be clear, I feel this policy is draconian for several reasons, the biggest of which is how they treat changes in party size. If one makes a reservation for 3 people and one person gets sick or cannot make it for whatever reason, one is charged $20 for that person (as I have changed from a 4-top to a deuce). If that is not bad enough, if one makes a reservation for 4 people and shows up with 5, their official policy is to charge $80, and then let one stand by for a round table. I would have no problem with expecting one to wait a bit longer if one's table size changes, but charging for that is absurd.

Which brings me to the following question.
You claim the food isn't all that good.
You claim the service is lousy.
You claim the wine list isn't any good.
In another thread, I assume the last time you attempted to try exactly what you are suggesting others do, you had an awful time and were even according to you, harassed.
You have claimed the view is just ok.

I did not do what I was suggesting. I was not there for Wishes, but arrived early for light dinner in the bar. We left well before Wishes began (and, if their service had not been so abysmal that night, would probably have been finished earlier). You might want to check your facts before you post accusations. For the record, that night my colleague and I spent over $100 with tip.

If you would like to read the thread about it rather than speculating incorrectly, it is titled: "Why My Most Recent Experience at California Grill Will Probably Be My Last"

So why in the heck are you even suggesting anyone go there in the first place?

I do not suggest people go there, and in every thread I post, I have recommended against it.

And indeed, didn't you say you wouldn't go back?

I said I am unlikely to return, and I am.

So then why are you continuing to waste your time calling and finding yet more end arounds to get yourself up there for what you say is just an ok view and a horrid experience?

I called to verify what I was saying because I do not post on here (or anywhere else) unless I am sure about my facts. I do not think that watching the fireworks from the outside landings is "horrid", I am less interested in watching the fireworks from inside the restaurant, but even that I just think is not as interesting, not "horrid".

And why are you even suggesting others do the same?

I have suggested that people not waste their evening having a medicore meal in a restaurant with poor service just to watch fireworks. Given that their goal is to watch fireworks from the top of the Contemporary, I have suggested a way to do it that is completely within Disney's policies. You keep saying that I am suggesting that people "sneak" up to the restaurant. I have never said that. I have always suggested that people inform the cast members of exactly what it is they want to do. If one is interested in having a drink or desert in the bar, one should say that. When one books a reservation, one should say that one is interested only in appetizers and/or desert if that is what one plans to do. I do not, nor have I ever advocated lying to a Cast Member.

You may feel that anyone that does not do what you think is appropriate is "sneaking", but that is simply your view. Disney clearly does not share it, as they were clear in their policies.

If they're beyond their occupancy limit, you will be stuck downstairs. But if all you're going to do up there is watch the show, it's not worth paying $8 for a glass of wine, and going through the trouble to deceive in order to do so.

If one has a reservation for that time, one is unlikely to be "stuck downstairs" - is that not what they claim their new policy of moving check in downstairs is supposed to guarantee against?

If their wine is worth $8 a glass, then it should be worth $8 a glass no matter when you have it. Is it your opinion that their wine is not worth $8?

Again, you say that making a reservation with the goal of watching Wishes is "deceitful". Exactly how much do you have to intend to spend before it becomes "honest"? Am I required to order an aperitif, an appetizer, a bottle of wine, an entree, desert, and a desert wine?

There are plenty of places you can watch the show that aren't crowded and you don't have to pay a dime to get to if that's all you want. And you're also taking the risk that they may immediately have a seat available. Then what do you do?

I agree. I do not think it is that special. You and others seem to disagree. One does not have to pay a dime even with a reservation to watch Wishes from California Grill. If they have a seat available right when one arrives, one can take that seat, watch Wishes from there (or walk outside or to the bar for a better view), order the same items as I was suggesting that one order in the bar, pay and then leave.

That having been said,
Here's some more reviews. 87% of the people are suggesting it.
http://allearsnet.com/reviewpost/showproduct.php?product=162&sort=8&cat=43&page=1
Here's some older ones
http://allearsnet.com/din/rev_cg1.htm

You might want to read How to Lie with Statics, your 87% figure is 87% of 15 people, not a statistically significant number. The reviews I was referring to were from professional food critics, not Disney Fans. Even many of those listed as positive are less than glowing. Almost all list as their "Pro" the view and watching Wishes (although as before even this sample is not statistically significant. Here are some quotes only from those reviews that are listed as positive:

However, our server had no knowledge of the wines as she was not yet 21 years old. Most of the lights are no longer dimmed inside the restaurant during WISHES. Thus one really has to go outside on one of the observation decks to appreciate the fireworks. Speakers have been added on the observation decks to enhace the WISHES music. We think one of the best things about the California Grill (watching WISHES and hearing the music while dining)has been diminished. The atmosphere is now "herd them in and get them out quickly."

This time our server was terrible, had a smile pasted on his face but very poor service.

As I have said many times, I think there are many better restaurants both on Disney Property and in greater Orlando.

/carmi

 

[majortom]

Thank you for asking!

I just started a new thread about this, because I find there isnt much much advice for couples w/o kids. I dont want to waste everybody's time in 2 threads, but to answer your question, bluezoo is numero uno on our list. Basically, we like places with great food, no matter the cost. However, I despise paying $100 for a meal thats just average.

Example: if youve been to Vegas, our fav restaurant ever is a place called Rosemary's. It's off the strip...in a strip mall actually....but the food is INCREDIBLE. We tend to places like that rather than the chains that just have a big name attached to them (i.e. Wolfgang Pucks...).

Rosemary's is Chef Michael Jordan's restaurant. He was the opening chef at NOLA (one of Emeril's restaurants in New Orleans, LA). I really like Rosemary's. He and Emeril are still great friends (Emeril has featured Rosemary's on his show).

If you like Rosemary's you will probably like Tchoup Chop and Emeril's Orlando (Chef Michael Jordan opened Emeril's New Orleans Fish House in Las Vegas). There is a great Indian restaurant in the Crossroads shopping center (near TGI Fridays).

I would also recommend Thai City, a really good local Thai restaurant on Sandlake Road.

/carmi

 

[lark]

It really depends on what your goal is. If you want good food and great service, do not expect to get it at California Grill.

The service can be spotty, but I really disagree about the food. I'm not entirely sure who all these people are who are complaining about the California Grill. I suppose pretty much every WDW restaurant has someone who doesn't like the food here on the board (even Boma), but I think you're pretty firmly in the minority here.

I've never had a bad meal there. I've had experiences that were not quite as good as I hoped, but not because of the food. It consistently gets high marks in most of the guidebooks I trust. It's actually, I believe, the only restaurant in WDW that Froemmers compares to a Michelin one-star, and the win selection is outstanding -- frequently winning awards from the Wine Spectator.

 

[majortom]

I've never had a bad meal there. I've had experiences that were not quite as good as I hoped, but not because of the food. It consistently gets high marks in most of the guidebooks I trust. It's actually, I believe, the only restaurant in WDW that Froemmers compares to a Michelin one-star, and the win selection is outstanding -- frequently winning awards from the Wine Spectator.

The resort's showcase restaurant serves cuisine that's the equivalent of the fare at a one-Michelin-star restaurant. Focusing on the lighter specialties for which the Golden State is famous, with many concessions to French palates, the elegant restaurant accommodates both adults and children gracefully. Even French food critics are impressed with oysters prepared with leeks and salmon.

This description of California Grill is not about the one in Florida, but about the one at the Disneyland Hotel at Disneyland Paris.

The Award of Excellence is given to almost 3,000 restaurants in the United States. It just means that one has a selection of over 80 wines (and that one was willing to pay $200 to Wine Spectator). This article talks about how easy it is to get.

"The basic award is not that hard to get," said Thomas Matthews, the executive editor of Wine Spectator. "At that level," Matthews added, "we're trying to bring people into a wine consciousness. We're trying to be as inclusive as possible. If they fail, it means they have done something fundamentally wrong, like not listing vintages."

/carmi

 

[Cannot_Wait_4Disney]

As an alternative to d-r-a-g-g-i-n-g out the meal (and therefore tieing up a table), are you allowed to go out on the observation deck if you're finished with your meal? Say you finish at 8:30 and "Wishes" is at 9:00. Rather than ordering a bottle of wine or something so you can stay until 9:00, can you just go out on the observation deck? If so, that would free up the table for someone else.

I noticed some people were doing just that and so would I if I finished up a little early. So I'm pretty sure you can within limits. But one party next to the windows was d r a g g i n g, it out. I guess they thought the view from the table was better. I thought the view from the deck was fine.

 

[Cannot_Wait_4Disney]

]No, if one wants to go up just as I suggested, there is no issue. It is only if one plans to go and then due to circumstances, one cannot make it that one gets charged. This policy has no effect on someone that actually shows up at the restaurant.

I said they're trying to discourage going up to watch the fireworks and not eating. Their policies reflect that. Take it for what it's worth. That you found another wrinkle doesn't change that condlusion. Do you think they put this policy in so that one can check in at the podium, order nothing, then leave? Or would itbe reasonable to conclude that that loophole was left in for other reasons such as if someone had to leave in an emergency, they wouldn't get charged. Obviously, It's just as reasonable to conclude the latter.

You may like planning your life six months in advance, others, especially on vacation do not enjoy that.

Nobody has to enjoy it.
They open the reservations 6 months in advance first come first serve. If you don't want to do that, that is your choice. For the record, I didn't have my act together at 180 days and could not quite get the times I wanted in places. Others, I could. You don't have to make a single ressie if you don't want to. There are places off the beaten path that are quite good that one doesn't need a ressie for at Disney. If you don't want to plan 6 months ahead, you don't have to. Now are they CA Grill at Fireworks time? No. Are they Chef Mickey's or Cinderella's? No. But you can still find good places to eat right up to the week you go. So the fact is, those that have their act together at 180 days get their pick of the spots. The longer you wait, the less pick you have. Sounds fair to me. Bottom line. I could make no ressies and find somewhere to eat that is both good and isn't booked up. July 4 may be an exception, but I don't go July 4.

I guess if you feel that making your vacation plans to the level of where you will eat every meal six months in advance is reasonable, than I can see where you would think that changing plans only two days in advance would be reasonable.

But I don't have to make them 180 days in advance. For some of the popular places, I'd better make one in the first two weeks. But it's no different than trying to get the perfect room at Yosemite lodge during the prime spring season. I better be calling way in advance if I want it. And if I don't call until I go, I'd better be prepared to stay outside the park in Oakhurst in a fleabag. At least with Disney, you aren't stuck with fleabag quality restaurants if you don't reserve. Maya Grill, Kona, Citricos, I don't like it but Marrakesh. Those are all places you can get into without a ressie at times.. And Two days in advance is no problem for me for the few places that requre it. It's your choice. But you can't eat your cake and have it still there to eat after you're finished.

Their policy about credit card guarantees began after they switched to a 180 reservation window. This seems to be indicate that they are related.

Cinderella's and the Fantasmic Package required one when the window was 90 days. I think Hoop De Doo and the Luau did too but I am not certain of that.
So far, Ca Grill and maybe Akershus have been added. I can't think of any others. So if it's the 180 day thing that is exclusively doing this, then why doesn't every place in the place require it now that it's gone to 180? 9 of my 10 ressies didn't require it. I think it's pretty clear that they do it at places there's a reason to do it, and not just because they wan't to be sticks in the mud with 180 day ressies.

Just to be clear, I feel this policy is draconian for several reasons, the biggest of which is how they treat changes in party size. If one makes a reservation for 3 people and one person gets sick or cannot make it for whatever reason, one is charged $20 for that person (as I have changed from a 4-top to a deuce). If that is not bad enough, if one makes a reservation for 4 people and shows up with 5, their official policy is to charge $80, and then let one stand by for a round table. I would have no problem with expecting one to wait a bit longer if one's table size changes, but charging for that is absurd.

I would agree here. That is a bit over the top. 4 to 5 definitely shouldn't be any add on charge other than the eats charge and 4 to 2 probably shouldn't either except at Cindy's where the food is preplated.

I did not do what I was suggesting. I was not there for Wishes, but arrived early for light dinner in the bar. We left well before Wishes began (and, if their service had not been so abysmal that night, would probably have been finished earlier). You might want to check your facts before you post accusations. For the record, that night my colleague and I spent over $100 with tip.

Where'd that come from? You went up for drinks and some eats at the bar right? You may or may not have had a ressie right? The situation wasn't exactly the same. But it's pretty darn similar. Let's just turn an anthill's worth of difference into the Sierra Nevadas. Although much like Clinton told us, I suppose it depends on your definition of "is."

If you would like to read the thread about it rather than speculating incorrectly, it is titled: "Why My Most Recent Experience at California Grill Will Probably Be My Last"

Oh boy. This is degenerating quickly. Should I have condluded from the thread that you thought the food was great, the service awesome, and the view something other than just ok? Please let me know if I "speculated incorrectly" that you think it stank. I'm sorry in advance if I wildly speculated you didn't like it when you actually totally dug the experience. By the way, I liked the mental gynastics regarding a New York Yankee's hat as a religious item.

Ok that's two in a row you're clearly talking at me rather than to me so no need to continue.

























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[majortom]

Where'd that come from? You went up for drinks and some eats at the bar right?

In another thread, I assume the last time you attempted to try exactly what you are suggesting others do, you had an awful time and were even according to you, harassed.

You may or may not have had a ressie right? The situation wasn't exactly the same. But it's pretty darn similar.

Not similar at all. I wanted to go have a nice light meal. What I am suggesting is that people whose goal is watching fireworks from California grill so do so without wasting an evening on an inferior dining experience.

I was not going for their atmosphere or their view, I was going for their food. In every thread where someone asks about their food I suggest other options.

By the way, I liked the mental gynastics regarding a New York Yankee's hat as a religious item.

A hat (not a Yankees hat, but a Disney baseball hat) worn as a head covering is a religious item. Sorry if your interpretation of our religion does not support that. When you have received rabbinical ordination, have become a member of the Rabbinical Assembly's Law Committee and are able to get them to change their interpretation of Jewish Law, please let me know.

Since you have raised this issue again, I will say what I said before. California Grill has every right to enforce any dress code they wish. Their policy of having guests register downstairs gives them the ability to do that. Once they have admitted a guest continued harassment is either a result of poor training or simple discrimination.

/carmi

 

[magiccouple2004]

it really depends on what you want:

we did wishes on main street 2 years ago and then last year went to cg (our honeymoon) and we didnt enjoy it at all the food was really good it was just hard to hear the music and with all the noise around you it is not really magical so if you want a magical experience maybe go to main street

 

[majortom]

it really depends on what you want:

we did wishes on main street 2 years ago and then last year went to cg (our honeymoon) and we didnt enjoy it at all the food was really good it was just hard to hear the music and with all the noise around you it is not really magical so if you want a magical experience maybe go to main street

For most of my life I have spent the 3rd of July in Chicago watching the fireworks on the lake (downtown fireworks on the 3rd as everyone is off on the 4th, neighborhood fireworks on the 4th). I have watched them from a boat in the harbor, for Grant Park, and from a boat on the lake. My cousin chose to get married on the 4th of July and had her rehearsal dinner on the 3rd in the Signature room (95th floor of the John Hancock building). I remember thinking that while it was the best view I think I have had, it was among the worst experiences. Hearing the booms from close and feeling the crowd's reaction have a big effect on my enjoyment.

I can understand your view, based on my experience.

/carmi