Finding FP+ very annoying...

I think people were told the wonders of good old FP. The same amount that are being told about FP+ anyway.

I wonder though, if more people are in line now (as so many comment that lines are longer) were those people simply wandering the parks before, waiting for their FP time? How was that a plus for them? Seems contradictory to say more FP+ are being used, yet the standby lines are longer too. What were those people doing before?
 
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I think people were told the wonders of good old FP. The same amount that are being told about FP+ anyway.

I wonder though, if more people are in line now (as so many comment that lines are longer) were those people simply wandering the parks before, waiting for their FP time? How was that a plus for them? Seems contradictory to say more FP+ are being used, yet the standby lines are longer too. What were those people doing before?
I believe they were in line for rides with no Legacy FP: Teacups, POTC, HM, IASW. I don't think they we standing around waiting for their legacy FP's
 
I believe they were in line for rides with no Legacy FP: Teacups, POTC, HM, IASW. I don't think they we standing around waiting for their legacy FP's

Then how are those lines longer now? That is what I mean. People are claiming the lines for those rides are longer now. The only way that is possible is if before they were wandering the parks.
 
Then how are those lines longer now? That is what I mean. People are claiming the lines for those rides are longer now. The only way that is possible is if before they were wandering the parks.

Here's my attempt at explaining what I think Astridia is saying...

Rides that were previously not on the FP system are now experiencing back-ups in the line, resulting in longer standby waits, because those lines are halted to allow FP+ users priority access to the ride.

Think of it like traffic. You can have a lot of cars on the road and the speed may slow somewhat, but as long as things keep moving, it's not too bad. The traffic flows and there's not that long of a wait. But as soon as someone has a fender bender that causes traffic to STOP, the resulting back-up can quickly becoming a miles-long traffic jam with hours of delay.

So, say, 100 people show up and get in line for a ride. When there was no FP for that ride, those 100 people would flow through the line without delay. So, when the next 100 people got in line, there wasn't a back-up. Things kept flowing smoothly. But now, 80 of those 100 people are standing still in the line when the next 100 show up and get in line as the FP users go ahead of them. Then there's still 160 people in line when the next 100 show up to get in line because only 20 at a time are going through the line for every 80 FP users.

The less the standby line moves while FP users are given priority, the more the line backs up and the longer the wait becomes. The same number of people might be getting in the standby line as before, but they used to move more efficiently through the line. Now they are standing still more and waiting longer as a result.

Also, it's helpful to understand whether people mean duration of the wait time or length of physical distance when they say a line is "long." Even a short line will experience a long wait if it doesn't move.
 
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Legacy and Plus are hybrid queueing/capacity/crowd management systems.

With no system in place people just walk around and queue based on mood and visible queue length (and maybe line indicator signs). This is a very inefficient system for multiple reason and should result in major bottle necks and tons of un-used ride capacity.

Legacy was the first step in implementing a more efficient system. Having to physically go to kiosks at the particular ride was just one of the inefficiencies and lack of usage by a large portion of guests made the overall system ineffective (people "in the know" were able to exploit these inefficiencies to our great advantage). The overall system was more efficient than nothing but still allowed (and sometimes created) bottle-necks and there was plenty of un-used capacity (hence why many rides were "walk-on").

Plus is by no means perfect yet but is the next step in a more efficient and effective queueing/capacity/crowd management system. Even as crowds have increased (while ride capacity really has not) many of the headliners have seen decreased wait times and as more people are now aware of the system (thanks to Disney advertising and pushing it much, much more) more guests are queueing in a more efficient manner for more rides. It is more than likely that the AVERAGE guest is touring much more efficiently (because math).

Contrary to what a previous poster said capacity is not an aspect of a capacity management system - it is just one of the variable with which the system has to take into account. The job of the system is to use that capacity in the most efficient manner possible.

Personally I think the next logical phase would be to move to even more of a virtual queueing system. A virtual queue is always going to be more efficient than a physical queue but that increased efficiency does not mean that EVERY guest will like the results. The "in the know" guests will have less inefficiencies that they can exploit to their advantage.
 
I think people were told the wonders of good old FP. The same amount that are being told about FP+ anyway.

I don't agree with this... The numerous emails about fp+, dumbo magnets including fp+ information, fp+ mentioned in practically every piece of snail mail marketing I get from Disney.....that, at least IME, wasn't the case with legacy. The only info I recall receiving from Disney itself about legacy was on park maps once I was already on property. I think Disney has made a pretty clear mission out of reaching more people, prior to their trips, with information on fp+, and I do believe their efforts are having the intended effect of informing more people.
 
I don't agree with this... The numerous emails about fp+, dumbo magnets including fp+ information, fp+ mentioned in practically every piece of snail mail marketing I get from Disney.....that, at least IME, wasn't the case with legacy. The only info I recall receiving from Disney itself about legacy was on park maps once I was already on property. I think Disney has made a pretty clear mission out of reaching more people, prior to their trips, with information on fp+, and I do believe their efforts are having the intended effect of informing more people.
I agree with this, though admittedly, it's just my perception - no numbers to back it up.

I just think people are more likely to look into FP+ given the barrage of commercials and marketing materials.
 
I thought it was funny that a friend who went with me to WDW in Nov. on her first trip just got back from a trip to Disneyland as well. They had a good time but said she wouldn't return to DL until they fix the fast pass system so it matches WDW. She found it too annoying and old fashioned to not be able to select your return times. Just made me laugh with all of the complaints the other direction on here.

We have a trip to the west coast planned within the next 2-3 years, mostly for the national parks and San Diego. I would love to work in a trip to DLR because I loved it when I was there back in 1991, and DH has never been. But, like FP- kept us from going to WDW in the past (no desire to pull a pass to come back hours later, etc.), we won't be heading to DLR with the legacy system.

This was also a problem with the old FP system, you had almost no control over when your next FP would be and if it was for one of the headliners it's quite possible you would have to settle for a late evening or nighttime FP and that was only one at a time.

That's one of the top reasons we refused to go to WDW before now.
 
We have a trip to the west coast planned within the next 2-3 years, mostly for the national parks and San Diego. I would love to work in a trip to DLR because I loved it when I was there back in 1991, and DH has never been. But, like FP- kept us from going to WDW in the past (no desire to pull a pass to come back hours later, etc.), we won't be heading to DLR with the legacy system.

That's one of the top reasons we refused to go to WDW before now.

Haven't you heard? You always had the option to ride standby. :tongue:
 
We recently moved to Fl. in a large part to be close to the parks. We bought APs for the first time and so far have not been able to find any FP for MK checking within our 30 day window. We were looking forward to being able to pop into the park on the spur of the moment but even if we try and plan weeks in advance everything is gone. The old system was much better and did not discriminate against the locals like the new system does.Before if the line was long I would get a FP and come back later. That is no longer an option. I have found all these changes are making me lose my love for the parks. It has become far too complicated. This will probably be our first and last year for APs unless a better system is in place.
 
@CouchTater - you should probably call Disney's Website Support number because that shouldn't be happening. Is it possible your tickets aren't properly connected to your account? We are going in under two weeks, and there are large numbers of FP+ available for loads of things at the MK - we were even able to switch around our 7DMT about four days ago. You won't find Elsa and Anna for parties of more than two at 30 days out, though more may show up closer to the actual day you go as people switch around their plans. But it sounds like there may be a glitch with your passes or account, if you're not finding any FP+ for any MK rides at 30 days out.
 
We recently moved to Fl. in a large part to be close to the parks. We bought APs for the first time and so far have not been able to find any FP for MK checking within our 30 day window. We were looking forward to being able to pop into the park on the spur of the moment but even if we try and plan weeks in advance everything is gone. The old system was much better and did not discriminate against the locals like the new system does.Before if the line was long I would get a FP and come back later. That is no longer an option. I have found all these changes are making me lose my love for the parks. It has become far too complicated. This will probably be our first and last year for APs unless a better system is in place.

I agree in general with your sentiments, but I also wonder what FPs you are having trouble finding availability for at 30 days (or even a couple days).
 
We recently moved to Fl. in a large part to be close to the parks. We bought APs for the first time and so far have not been able to find any FP for MK checking within our 30 day window. We were looking forward to being able to pop into the park on the spur of the moment but even if we try and plan weeks in advance everything is gone. The old system was much better and did not discriminate against the locals like the new system does.Before if the line was long I would get a FP and come back later. That is no longer an option. I have found all these changes are making me lose my love for the parks. It has become far too complicated. This will probably be our first and last year for APs unless a better system is in place.

This does not sound right at all! I would be calling Disney and find out what is going on.
 
We recently moved to Fl. in a large part to be close to the parks. We bought APs for the first time and so far have not been able to find any FP for MK checking within our 30 day window. We were looking forward to being able to pop into the park on the spur of the moment but even if we try and plan weeks in advance everything is gone. The old system was much better and did not discriminate against the locals like the new system does.Before if the line was long I would get a FP and come back later. That is no longer an option. I have found all these changes are making me lose my love for the parks. It has become far too complicated. This will probably be our first and last year for APs unless a better system is in place.

That's very strange. If that were the case, they'd have no way to be offering a 4th FP+ once your 3rd one is used. I haven't seen any reports of people going to get a 4th FP+ and finding nothing, at all, available.
 
Within the next 30 days for two people I cannot find even one time available for Mine Train, Elsa and Anna or either parade. Sure there are FP's for much of the older rides but to not even be able to book one of those I named within the past 30 days and in the next 30 days shows there is an issue with the system. If I am limited to 30 days but others are able to book 60 and 90 days out what chance do I have for the more popular attractions? Sure I can get up early and be there at rope drop but I shouldn't have to. I always stayed offsite before but now as a local I can afford to go down and stay a few nites in a luxury resort now and then and dine in a nice restaurant that I couldn't previously afford. You would think that Disney would care about the locals. We are the ones that will pop into the parks on a whim for dinner or shopping. I have spent more in my last two trips to EPCOT since I have lived here than I did on 10 prior trips as a tourist. And yes my tickets are properly linked.
 
Within the next 30 days for two people I cannot find even one time available for Mine Train, Elsa and Anna or either parade. Sure there are FP's for much of the older rides but to not even be able to book one of those I named within the past 30 days and in the next 30 days shows there is an issue with the system. If I am limited to 30 days but others are able to book 60 and 90 days out what chance do I have for the more popular attractions? Sure I can get up early and be there at rope drop but I shouldn't have to. I always stayed offsite before but now as a local I can afford to go down and stay a few nites in a luxury resort now and then and dine in a nice restaurant that I couldn't previously afford. You would think that Disney would care about the locals. We are the ones that will pop into the parks on a whim for dinner or shopping. I have spent more in my last two trips to EPCOT since I have lived here than I did on 10 prior trips as a tourist. And yes my tickets are properly linked.

That makes more sense.
 
Within the next 30 days for two people I cannot find even one time available for Mine Train, Elsa and Anna or either parade.

And those would be the only things in all of WDW that you should have any trouble with at the 30 day mark. However, if you're willing to check now and then, you'd probably find cancellations now and then.


If I am limited to 30 days but others are able to book 60 and 90 days out what chance do I have for the more popular attractions?

No one that I know of can book 90 days out.

as a local I can afford to go down and stay a few nites in a luxury resort now and then and dine in a nice restaurant that I couldn't previously afford.

If you're staying on site you can book at 60 days.

Local AP's are sold at a discounted price. With that discount, come limitations.
 


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