Filthy Nassau

[rejobako]

You know, I have read many nasty things about Nassau here on this board and I was starting to think like everyone else, just get over to Atlantis.
But before I started reading the posts, not just this thread, I wanted to take that historic tour and walk around and check things out. There's a lot of history in the Bahamas.
After reading your post, I'm back to my original thought. My DH thinks the same way. Being born and raised in The Bronx and traveling around Manhattan often, I don't think Nassau is gonna "shock" me any more than I have already been shocked. In fact, I kinda miss being shocked! Where's the flashers when you're looking for a little excitement?
Thanks for shaking some sense into me, rejobako!

LOL: was I shaking? I was trying for a tap on the shoulder. . .

BTW, the portion of my post that you quoted --talking about the Green Parrot (also known as the hurricane hole), and the News cafe--those places are on Paradise Island; they're just not on the Atlantis property. If you want some of the local color but don't want the Straw Market / Bay Street chaos, you can find a tamer version off-Atlantis property on PI.

But if you're comfortable in the Bronx and Manhattan, you already know how to give pushy people a quick brush-off. You won't have any problems in li'l ol' Nassau.

 

[crisi]

I don't see a lot of die hard Nassau fans. It is a city with a lot of poverty, a lot of traffic. I don't think people on this thread are fans of the fact that the street vendors are poor, that there is drug abuse, homelessness and drunks. I see a thread where people are saying "keep your expectation in line, be prepared for pushy street vendors (we just ignored them and had no problems), and stay safe."

There are nicer places in the world. I've yet to see anyone with a suggestion for one that would be practical for Disney to send the Wonder to. And Nassau in itself can be very nice - the water is turquioise blue and beautiful, Atlantis is more impressive than any Disney hotel. Unfortuntately for those that don't want to be exposed (or let their children be exposed) to city life in the third world, you do have to go through downtown Nassau when you leave the ship.

However, DCL has given you choices. You can stay on the ship - activities continue, pools are empty, kids clubs are open, food is served. You can book an excursion through DCL that will minimize your exposure to the straw market and its environs. Or you can go off on your own, enjoy local color, and take your own risks. You can choose expose yourself your children to a culture and a concept about wealth they are unlikely to get in a prosperous U.S. suburb. DCL also makes a effort to educate you before you get off the ship, via shopping in Nassau seminars and information about Nassau.

 

[wdwoldtimer]

That's how I saw it Crisi. For most people it's an expectation thing.

Sure, visiting a Third World country and getting to know it's people and culture can be a very rewarding and enriching experience. But if you want that you can join the Peace Corps. Most people don't expect and/or don't care for themselves or their kids to see and experience some of the things that go on on Nassau...not while vacationing...especially when it's Disney. For many people a "Disney trip" is an escape from reality. It doesn't mean they are naive country folk who can't handle city life or that they are ignorant spoiled Americans.

 

[crisi]

Agreed, but that is the way it is. Disney cannot change downtown Nassau. And until someone comes up with a viable alternative, its just griping. Don't like it, don't leave the ship.

Here is a map of the Carribean, which shows how limited the options are from the Cape. You can't get to Grand Cayman or Jamaica in one night - you need a day at sea.

http://www.bugbog.com/maps/north_america/caribbean_map.html

Edited to add: Its a kind of griping I find very distasteful. People of wealth (or relative wealth) complaining about poverty and people who live in poverty. And then wanting them to live a life that meets their needs and their priorities.

 

[wdwoldtimer]

Two stops at CC would be great!

 

[crisi]

Two stops at CC would be great!

As I understand it, that isn't possible. For one thing, Disney has its seven day cruise ship coming through, they want to "stress" the island as little as possible - and it takes a day to clean up between cruises. For another thing, my understanding is they have to dock outside the U.S. - and a private island doesn't count - or they can't sail under foriegn registry. No one can afford to sail under U.S. registry. I may be wrong about this, someone who sounded knowledgable about such things has said this here in the past.

 

[debtman7]

I hear cuba is nice this time of year.

No one can afford to sail under U.S. registry. I may be wrong about this, someone who sounded knowledgable about such things has said this here in the past.

There are a few ships that are US regsitered. I couldn't tell you about the cost, but I'm willing to be another reason to do a foreign registry is because the regulations are likely not as strict, and the employment laws are more favorable (sure, your server may make good money with tips, but how much do you think the guy that mops the deck at 2 am makes?)

Ok out of curiosity I looked this up and it seems the lowest level menial jobs on cruise ships pay around $600 a month. That works out to $3.75 an hour if they did a 40 hour work week, but let's face it, these guys are probably doing at least 60 hours, so call it $2.50 an hour. That is well below the minimum wage. Granted, for the type of people who have this job, $2.50 an hour with free room and board is EXTREMELY good, but if the ships were US I'd assume they'd have to comply with minimum wage laws.

 

[jrabbit]

Someone earlier said that "if you get off in Nassau expecting someplace out of EPCOT you're going to be in for a shock." Well that was me. I didn't know what to expect and the way Nassau is wasn't even on my radar. I've had limited exposure to a few large cities in Europe (and even fewer in the US - yep I'm a country hick ) - they didn't phase me but Nassau did.

But here's what I gained out of our Nassau experience: all of DCL's other port stops (eastern and western caribbean cruises) have seemed "normal" to me. Nothing to shocking - not even St. Maarten. Why, because I was had an idea of what was comming. If my first caribbean experience was St. Maarten my feelings towards it would be the same as Nassau's - don't want to go there. I can't wait to get back to St. Maarten - it's a lovely island. Once your expectations are aligned with the reality, you can enjoy where ever you go.

This thread has gotten me thinking. Maybe some day I will return to Nassau, and take in more than the Atlantis and the immediate port area.

BTW - I don't think that people that have posted that they don't enjoy Nassau are gripeing - They are stating their opinions and preferences and experiences. Not many of the posts have been "gripes". Also most people get off of the ship in Nassau otherwise the pools and other public areas wouldn't be so "empty". So DCL is exposing maybe 1500 twice a week to the "real world" outside of their boundaries and control.

 

[Tri-circle-D]

I wonder how many of those who rate Nassau as an awful experience have been to other ports in the Bahamas or the Carribean? I have been on many cruises, and visited many of the ports called on by cruise ships in the Bahamas and the Carribean. There really is not a whole lot of difference in these places. These islands all have very nice places and some not so very nice places. The shopping districts pretty much all have the same kind of junk to sell to us tourists, and you will always find locals eager to make a buck by serving as your tour guide, or braiding your hair, or whatever. Sometimes they are a little aggressive, but almost always they are polite. The people in Nassau are no worse than any where else your cruise ship might stop. I would be interested if anyone can name a port or island in the Bahamas or Carribean where one won't have the exact same experience stepping off a cruise ship.

 

[jclark3]

I wonder how many of those who rate Nassau as an awful experience have been to other ports in the Bahamas or the Carribean? I have been on many cruises, and visited many of the ports called on by cruise ships in the Bahamas and the Carribean. There really is not a whole lot of difference in these places. These islands all have very nice places and some not so very nice places. The shopping districts pretty much all have the same kind of junk to sell to us tourists, and you will always find locals eager to make a buck by serving as your tour guide, or braiding your hair, or whatever. Sometimes they are a little aggressive, but almost always they are polite. The people in Nassau are no worse than any where else your cruise ship might stop. I would be interested if anyone can name a port or island in the Bahamas or Carribean where one won't have the exact same experience stepping off a cruise ship.

I don't know how it is now (I was last there in '94), but there used to be a stark contrast between Grand Cayman and the rest of the Caribbean/Bahamas. It was very clean, no street vendors harrassing you, and VERY expensive.

 

[tchoney]

I wonder how many of those who rate Nassau as an awful experience have been to other ports in the Bahamas or the Carribean? I have been on many cruises, and visited many of the ports called on by cruise ships in the Bahamas and the Carribean.

As I posted earlier, we hated nassau. On our 4 night cruise, we also visited Freeport and had a wonderful experience. It was clean, smelled nice, the people were not pushy, we did not witness people urinating on the sidewalk, we were not asked to purchase drugs. We did visit the straw market, went to the beach, went Kayaking, went on a natural walk, visited scuba diving tunnels and had a picnic lunch. I would recommend Freeport over Nassau anyday!

 

[tchoney]

In defense of Nassau, I would point out that in many countries around the world, urinating on the sidewalk is as common as spitting, and doesn't earn a second glance. The AIDS signs are actually evidence that the Bahamanians are concerned with educating their public; unlike we Americans, the typical islander doesn't have a television or a regular family doctor, and a sign in the Straw Market is probably as effective a deterrent as anything. In any case, I don't share your implication that such a notice should be viewed as offensive in any way. As for the public sale of drugs, that's certainly unfortunate, although that occurs in almost any heavy tourist destination; I've been offered the same kinds of unsolicited transactions everywhere from Paris to Ocho Rios to Las Vegas to Chicago. Finally, we're very lucky to be Americans, because our standard of living is such that piles of garbage on city streets seems out of place. That is not the case everywhere, and I would suggest that you'd be hardpressed to find a cruise ship destination anywhere in the Carribbean that isn't faced with the same challenges.

First let me say that I am extremely familiar with other cultures around the world. I have lived in Germany, Austria, and Amsterdam. I have also visited numerous foreign countries, including 3rd World countries. For a tourist town, urinating on a sidewalk is disqusting, I don't care where you are. Secondly, let me say that I was most disqusted with the prominence of AIDS signs not because of the signs themselves, but because after walking through the town and visiting the straw market with an abundance of dirty, filthy hypodermic needles and other drug paraphanelia for sale, my thought process of what these people were thinking was unclear. Yes, you have this nasty filth that you are selling, obviously using, sharing, etc... and you wonder why your town has to advertise the prominence of AIDS signs? My disgust was with the culture leading to the signs, not the signs themselves. I believe in educating communities, families, children, etc. in All Diseases, AIDS including. Thirdly, I work downtown a very large city. I walk past overpasses everyday that are filled with Homeless people. Hungry, Homeless Men, women and children that have camps of boxes and old dirty stinky blankets, rags for clothes and their food is only the leftovers found in dumpsters at the end of workdays. These people don't beg for money. They don't push to buy drugs. They don't pull on your arms or legs to try and get you to help them. Their makeshift homes don't have garbage pilled up and thrown all over the sidewalks. Poverty is no excuse for nastyness and filth. And, as the child of a once poor single mother on welfare, I am very familiar with being poor and not knowing if you were going to get a next meal.

I do agree with you on the aspect that we are very fortunate to be americans and have the privilage to live in the country that we do. I also respect your opinion and thoughts on Nassau. I just wanted to clarify, why I felt the way I did...

 

[Island_Lauri]

I believe that MOST (not all) people who end up really hating some of the Caribbean Islands are experiencing their ways for the first time and it comes to them as culture shock. People who get off the ships in Jamaica and walk over to the shopping bazzar just outside of the dock often feel the same way about that island. I feel I've been a little more educated in having the priviledge of traveling and visiting some of these beautiful and fascinating Caribbean Islands and let me tell ya, Jamaica is absolutely beautiful. You really need to "see" an island and not just place judgement from one trip to the local tourist trap market. I couldn't believe that people hated Jamaica after visiting there. We saw the mountains and rain forrests, beautiful rolling hills, we learned of their culture, their schools and their money. $1 American is worth like $40 Jamaican. They are making a living the best way they know how. I believe a lot of islanders have come to the conclusion that most tourists are spoilt well off people who don't have any real idea about what goes on in the rest of the world and I believe this is the reason for some of the attitude. There are so many though that are wonderful and gracious. Call me phycho but I'm kind of anxious to see for myself how "agressive" the Bahamians are. We've been through so much of that stuff that it doesn't even phase us anymore and knowing that this is how most of these people feed their families at night, it doesn't bother me to give a little girl singing me a song a dollar or two for her efforts in trying please a vacationing foreigner. I'm hard pressed to think that the agressive behavior of the people of the Bahamas is going to ruin the day for me or that it will even come close to agressiveness of the people of Haiti. I'm sure it will be like child's play. Can't wait to "see" for myself.

I can so relate to this. On our first trip to Jamaica, we stayed at the Jamaica Grande in Ocho Rios and when we first ventured outside of the hotel, it was unnerving. But we met up with some friends that had been to Jamaica before and they introduced us to their local friends who took us away from the tourist areas. We fell in love. We have returned to Jamaica 2 times since -- renting a house in Port Maria instead of staying at a hotel. We can't wait to return again. If we hadn't met up with friends who knew their way around Jamaica, I am not sure that we would have ever returned.

We learned it is all about attitude. If you are kind to people, they are kind back to you. Show them respect and they will show you respect in return.

We took our first Disney Cruise last May - 3 nights. When we docked in Nassau, we didn't leave the ship because we felt that there was so much we wanted to experience on the ship itself. We are going on our 2nd cruise in March and are looking forward to spending the day in Nassau.

 

[madisonsmom]

I agree with you Island Lauri, it is all about attitude. We have frequented Jamaica and on our first trip there we were skeptics about the market, people bombarding you and being seemingly relentess. But it also seemed that as soon as we "lightened" up a bit with the locals they were GREAT to talk to and ALOT of fun! They were full of information and great stories. You really have to look at it from the locals perspective, they live in a 3rd world country, they are not making their money off of locals that live there, hence it is a 3rd world country! They have to take opportunity to make money when it comes, and unfortunately for us that cruise or vacation on their beautiful island, we are the opportunity,

I have yet to goto Nassau but am looking forward to finding some good restaurants to eat at and find som sand to put between my toes!

 

[midnitemist]

We saw Nassau in 2000, we went to Atlantis, they people were nice. Then when we did some walking around some shops the people did get PUSHY and RUDE. We stayed together as a group and were ok. But we didnt walk around for very long, maybe an hour, then back on ship. We have agreed the next time we go Atlantis only or stay on ship.