Feeling overwhelmed...newbie in need of advice

[Gillian]

Hi campers!
If you've been following my saga, you know that we have a popup (some kind of coleman/fleetwood, moderate size) but nothing to tow with. We've been shopping for used suvs and it's a little confusing.

I know there are other camping forums, but I can't figure out where to post.

Any advice on the following issues might help clear my head:
-if we need to add a hitch (receiver?) to a truck, where is the best place to go for that? An RV dealer? What about a brake controller? I'm in central NJ but can travel to PA bucks county if anyone is near me
-Is there an easy way to find out which used models had factory towing packages or towing prep packages?

For anyone who tows with a minivan, do you know anything about Hondas? One dealer told me the towing stuff is all added at the dealer and nothing (even engine upgrades) are available from the manufacturer. I can't verify this information.

Shopping for a new used car is bad enough, but having to get it ready to tow is impossible! Luckily DH is finally getting interested, but he knows a lot less than I do!

If you can point me in the right direction, I'd appreciate it.

 

[ftwildernessguy]

There are a lot of places to go for a hitch. Uhaul does it as well as brake controllers. On my Explorer, I bought the receiver from Ford and had the body shop at the dealership put it on since it involved removing the rear bumper. I have put them on myself, which is not a bad job if it bolts to the frame through existing holes. You can also go to RV dealers for this. The electric brake controller can be an easy job on newer vehicles if there is a plug under the dash for it, and it will require you drive around the block a couple of times towing the trailer to adjust it properly. If you want a reputable dealer, I know one in Souderton, PA which may not be far from you - Fretz RV. Family owned and really nice folks - I have dealt with them for years.

I really don't know about Hondas. You are probably talking about relatively light weight towing, minivans usually aren't rated for very heavy weights. You probably will want a transmission cooler, which can be installed after market. Any heavy towing packages which would include limited slip differentials etc are factory installed.

 

[bama_ed]

Gillian,

I tow with a Town & Country Chrysler mini-van with the factory-installed tow package. It has a transmission cooler, compensating shocks so the back doesn't sag, etc. The pop-up you have should have a manufacturer's label on it about what its empty weight is, how much cargo carrying capacity (CCC), and what its total maximum weight should be. That number is the pop-up's Gross Vehicle Weight (GVW) rating a.k.a. GVWR.

Look at the owner's manual of the vehicles you consider buying at look at the towing capacity (consider how many people you will have in the vehicle as more people means less weight you can tow). Certainly the towing capacity of the vehicle should not exceed the GVWR of the camper. Some folks build in a safety margin by saying the GVWR should be 75% or lower of a tow vehicle's capacity.

Only the very lightest pop-ups or small ones can be towed without a factory installed tow package on a mini-van. Pick-ups and some SUVs may have higher normal towing capacities. Just look at the numbers.

Good luck. Bama ED

PS-3 more months till we make it to the Fort again!

 

[bunny]

Try this website- www.rv.net. Go to the Folding Campers section. There is a wealth of information on that site. Personally I would not recommend towing with a minivan. We used to have a Chevrolet Trailblazer and it was great for towing a pop-up. We couldn't even tell it was back there. The Trailblazer has an integrated hitch in the bumper and is already prewired for a brake controller. Chevrolet just starting making the Trailblazer in 2002. I would highly recommend it for towing. We have now moved up to a Chevy Avalanche but only because we got a bigger camper. I would also recommend a Suburban or truck. Vehicles with longer wheelbases are better for towing.

 

[ftwildernessguy]

bama ed brought up a good point re towing capacities. The figure given by any tow vehicle manufacturer includes passengers, trailer and lugage or other stuff you pack. Watch the trailer weights - there is a difference between dry weights (the basic trailer with nothing) and wet weights (trailer plus options plus loaded propane and water tanks). Neither of these include the passengers, so don't forget to add the weight of the kids and the dog. They also don't take into account the incredible amount of stuff we can drag along camping, so add this in too and it adds up FAST. Safest bet - get a tow vehicle rated MUCH higher than the weight you think you are going to pull, then if possible, take the fully loaded trailer plus the kids, dog, aunt Martha, all the luggage and "extras" down to the local truck scales, pay the fee and have everything weighed - if you're over, it gives you an excuse to leave aunt Martha behind. As a rule of thumb, when I buy a trailer, I take the wet weight and add 2000lbs to it to get an estimate of what the actual weight will be. So 4500lb wet weight of Kiwi plus 2000 lbs is 6500lbs. Towing capacity of F150 is 9200lbs with factory tow package. Wow - I can bring 2700lbs of junk with me (or 2700lbs of souveniers back)!

 

[dreaming4disney]

Gillian,
We recently went through a similar dilemma. We are a family of 5 with a dog. We had a Honda Pilot but all we could tow was 3500 lbs. One dealer in Bucks tried to talk us into a small hybrid that weighed approx 2800 lbs. Being newbies to the camping thing, we came close to buying but in the end we didnt feel comfortable being that close to tow max.
We sold our Pilot,bought a Yukon xl that can tow 8000lbs and a hybrid weighing 4500lbs. We drove to FW this past Christmas and after 20 hrs on the road we were very happy we got the bigger tow vehicle. Big tractor trailers passing you will push and pull you all over the road. The safer your set up the more comfortable driving will be.
We also bought our rv through Fretz in PA and only good things to say about them. Maybe you could call a dealer and ask them what a good tow vehicle would be for your pop up. Good service from them now could be a sale for them in the future. Incidently, Fretz told us from the beginning that our Pilot could only tow med to small pop up where as others were pushing us into anything we liked.
Good luck-sorry this is so long

 

[ftwildernessguy]

Gillian,
We also bought our rv through Fretz in PA and only good things to say about them. Maybe you could call a dealer and ask them what a good tow vehicle would be for your pop up. Good service from them now could be a sale for them in the future. Incidently, Fretz told us from the beginning that our Pilot could only tow med to small pop up where as others were pushing us into anything we liked.
Good luck-sorry this is so long

My experience with Fretz, RV has been similar. Service department is great. Steve Fretz didn't try to sell me something I didn't want nor something I couldn't tow. Very low pressure. I have had terrible experiences with sales staff at other dealerships much closer to me - ie stay away from BoatnRV in Hamburg, PA.

 

[Gillian]

Thank you so much for the info! I am going to look up fretz & see how far away they are from us.

Right now we are back to our original stuggle between a good family vehicle and a good towing vehicle. My plan (don't tell DH!) is to upgrade to a hybrid in the future, but I don't know if the TV we buy now will still be around when we have the money for a new TT.

We did see a town & country with the towing pkg but it still requires adding a hitch. And it was a loaded model, with DVD player and stuff, that we don't really need. I'd prefer an Odyssey, because we like Hondas.

 

[Gillian]

Try this website- www.rv.net. Go to the Folding Campers section. There is a wealth of information on that site. Personally I would not recommend towing with a minivan. We used to have a Chevrolet Trailblazer and it was great for towing a pop-up. We couldn't even tell it was back there. The Trailblazer has an integrated hitch in the bumper and is already prewired for a brake controller. Chevrolet just starting making the Trailblazer in 2002. I would highly recommend it for towing. We have now moved up to a Chevy Avalanche but only because we got a bigger camper. I would also recommend a Suburban or truck. Vehicles with longer wheelbases are better for towing.

I have read these things, but DH says no to a truck. I have heard from people who tow popups with minivans that they are very stable, especially compared to mid-sized SUVs. And that's from people who have towed with both.

We did see a used trailblazer on a dealer lot, 2003, but I didn't get to really check it out. The tailpipe was rusty, which didn't give me confidence in the rest of it, you know?

 

[drewc]

Hey Bama Ed,

What has your experience been like towing with the Town and Country? I am in the process of retro-fitting our '05 T&C with a tow package (adding class III hitch, wiring, brake controller, transmission cooler, etc.) as my wife would prefer we use this vehicle for our longer trips with our pop-up. I'm getting a WDH (Reese 400), which I'm told will take care of the load levelling and rear-sag.

I have a fall-back vehicle (my '02 Mountaineer with tow package), but we will be within our tow capacity (3,800lb) and gross combined weight (8,600lb) with the T&C. From the research I've done, it sounds like towing our pop-up (which will be in the 3,200lb range) should be doable, given it's low profile and our hitch and sway control set-up, but I'd love to hear some more real-world towing experience/opinions.

Thanks!

 

[drewc]

Gillian,

I think some of the references to vehicle stability with a pop-up may be influenced by what is being towed. A pop-up usually has a relatively low profile, many are lower to the ground than even a compact car.

A higher profile trailer, such as a hi-brid or a travel trailer will be pushed around more. It will be pushed and tugged by the wake of a semi going by. I used to have a 26ft Class-C mini-motor home and I really got sick of driving that on the highway, because I was constantly fighting the wake or large passing vehicles, compensating then recompensating the wheel to keep in my lane. Talk about white-knuckling - I did not enjoy that.

The other thing that makes pop-ups different is that same low profile presents less frontage, or drag when you are driving. Lighter tow vehicles like mini-vans will probably have a manufacturer's limit for the square footage of frontgage you can have. I would guess that most pop-ups are within those frontage limits, but you would need to measure or check the pop-up specs to be sure.

I've been told that I should not use my mini-van to tow and that I should just use my V6 Mountaineer, as it is a real "tow vehicle". Weight and frame style aside, my two vehicles are actually very similar in specs. My Town and Country has a 3.8 V6 which puts out 215 hp, and 245 ft. pounds of torque at 4,000 RPM. My Mountaineer has a 4.0 V6 which produces 210 hp and 254 ft. pounds of torque at 3,700 RPM. That gives the edge to the Mountaineer, but not exactly by a landslide.

I would ask around about trustworthy RV dealers (as you have here already) and talk with them, especially if they don't have a sale hanging on the discussion. They can help you make sense of all the weights and numbers and give you an idea of what is both safe and a reasonable vehicle.

 

[stillh2o]

When I had my popup I towed it with my Explorer we did add a hitch. It towed the popup great. Want ever tow vehicle you get remember to tow in Drive not in OverDrive.

 

[poohbearwithme]

You might also want to try www.popupexplorer.com. They have a great message board and you can probably talk to people you have the exact model of popup you have. As stated before www.rv.net has a good message board also but it is listed under folding campers. There is also www.popuptimes.com, Popup Times is also a magazine.

 

[bama_ed]

DrewC,

I have had no problems pulling my pop-up with my T&C. I have a Jayco 12 footer. Once I learned how to back the pop-up into a camp site properly that is.

I had bought the vehicle new with the tow package and hitch because we were seriously shopping for pop-up when our old van got rear-ended and totalled. If anything I may be closer to weight limits than I would prefer (about 85% of limit). However, we don't go far from home and don't drag it over mountains.

Our trip to FTW in May will be the longest I've taken the pop-up (600 miles) and the longest thus far has been half that. Doubtless you know that you have to drive differently (no more rapid acceleration) and liken it to having to drive like a trucker not an auto. We have hydraulic brakes on the pop-up so I have no experience with brake controllers. We've never had any sway.

I also added a ProRac bike rack to the front of the camper that I bought through Pop-Up Explorer so we can take the bikes to FTW and whenever we go camping. Putting that much weight on the front means I have to store some stuff internally behind the axle to keep the tongue weight reasonable.

Good Luck!
Bama Ed

PS-When I go to FTW this spring I want to pick up a FTW Chip-n-Dale Spare Tire cover for my pop-up (I already have a FTW door mat/rug). You may want to get one too when you go.....

 

[Big Kahuna]

Gillian...
In one of your replies, you mention the Honda Odessey as something you like. I checked my 2005 Tow ratings guide, and the HONDA Odyssey equipped with a 3.5L V6 engine will tow a maximum of 3500 lbs. I know you mentioned that the one dealer told you that all towing options for Honda' s are installed at the dealership, but this note is listed in my book, and it says
Factory towing package required. The towing package must then be a factory item.

 

[drewc]

Bama Ed,

Thanks very much for the info. I hope you'll post a trip report after your trip in May. I have a trip to FTW planned for next year, and that is about 2,600 miles round trip.

I would be curious to know what kind of highway speeds you are able to maintain with the pop-up, and also what your mileage is like. I think those will be important factors in our decision on what vehicle we'll use most often for towing.

Thanks again.

 

[minkydog]

I pull my pop-up with a GMC Safari V8 mini-van and have had no problems. My mom has had several Chrysler mini-vans equipped with the tow package to pull her pop-up, and now she has tHE honda--loves it! I pulled my pop-up (briefly) with my Chrysler--i don't recommend it When I pull my pop-up I can easily go 55mph, but much over 60 causes some sway. I don't feel safe driving that fast pulling a 1900lb trailer anyway.

 

[bama_ed]

DrewC,

I feel comfortable doing 70 mph with the pop-up behind me. Normally I drive 8-10 mph over the limit without a camper but with that much mass behind me I cool it to 70. Our Jayco pop-up is a high-wall which means it is taller when closed. As a result I can NOT see out my rear view mirror when towing and have to rely on my two side mirrors. It's not a problem but it does require a change in reflexes on my part to look right-left-right and not left-back-right before changing lanes!

Mileage definitely takes a hit towing the pop-up. At 70 mph it is a 4 mile per gallon reduction (from 18-19 to 14-15). So it does make a difference but I don't expect something for nothing. It's a great combination and I will take the first trip this spring to Memphis during spring break to visit Graceland. FTW is in May.

BTW we went to an RV show at our Civic Center this past weekend and climbed in and out of a lot of RVs (all classes), travel trailers, hybrids, pop-ups, and pick-up truck bed trailers. All-in-all, I love my pop-up! It has the right mix for me of low cost, store in the garage, I don't have to have a tow vehicle on steroids, and I still love the feel that I'm still "camping" with the canvas over my head. I hope to keep at it for a long time.

Bama ED

 

[Gillian]

Bama ED thanks for sharing your experience.

Right now we are seriously considering a Town & Country (new, short term lease to see if we like having a minivan) or a used Nissan Pathfinder (because we have been happy with our Nissans in the past and they seem like cabable tow vehicles, plus there are quite a few around now that the new version is out).

We did look at a big, beautiful truck (Dodge Ram 1500 quad cab) and it was so tempting! DH's coworkers had him convinced that he needed a truck. But I wanted to drive it also and then we started to fight, with DH telling me I could take out clients to see houses in a pick up truck!

 

[ktmdad450]

short and to the point. I am a master certified auto tech. DONT tow with the chrysler minivan. the trans WILL NOT hold up. you can have a cooler the size of the radiator, it dosent matter, the clutch packs are just too light of duty. The nissan would be a good choice, so long as the maint records can be produced. as far as the truck goes?, My wife is a realtor, and she shows houses in her 2500 quad cab diesel! nothing beats a truck with four doors for towing.