Fat Acceptance...

As a "pooh" sized gal, I needed to chime in. I am overweight, I have struggled with it most of my life. When I went to my doctor to see if I could get the lap band, I was told no. My blood pressure is great, my blood sugar is normal, my cholestrol is in the perfect range, and all in all I'm in good health. I have no other issues than being overweight. So tell me why am I a burden to you? I eat healthy, I walk everyday and try to keep the stress in my life at a decent level.
Like me for what I am on the inside, not the outside.
 
When I went to my doctor to see if I could get the lap band, I was told no.

Just curious, what was the reason. If it is TMI, it's ok.

It would seem that with no other adverse health factors he/she should not have a reason to decline this....

Did you try to get a second opinion?
 
No more so than joggers with ripped cartlidges, Gym entusist with torn muscles.

That's just not true. Physically fit people within a recommended range of weight access the health care system much less frequently.
 
Fat people take up far more than their half of the bus seat or the Metro seat, yet they only pay one admission, so they are are affecting me with their extra flesh in THAT instance. . . . :confused3

But they are not affecting your health.
OMG! Talk about ignorant rude comments. Then move to another seat if I or some other as you call us fat people are in your way!!! And don't start that nonsence about only paying for one admission, seat or whatever. :headache:

Again so quick to judge others. Shame on you!!

So is the guy spread out over two seats with his bags or practically laying down hurting your health also? :confused:


It is annoying and stressful when a big person takes up more than their share of a seat. You can't move to another seat on a packed airplane. I had to sit next to one on a flight and I'm sure that my stress levels were not good for my health. I think that anyone that size should buy 2 seats. I'd rather take another flight than feel squeezed.
 

It is annoying and stressful when a big person takes up more than their share of a seat. You can't move to another seat on a packed airplane. I had to sit next to one on a flight and I'm sure that my stress levels were not good for my health. I think that anyone that size should buy 2 seats. I'd rather take another flight than feel squeezed.

So, you're not fat I take it? And something that simple affects your stress to the point that it's not good for your health?

:lmao:

See folks, it's not just the fat people who're affecting the health costs in this country. Thanks so much for making the point for us. :rotfl2:

And FTR, I'm annoyed by a lot of things other people do when they're sitting by me -- kid kicking the seat, bad body odor, strong perfume, too loud, too nosy, invading my personal space. But I get over it because it's just part of living in society.

Some of you really need the number of a good therapist. Aren't you afraid you'll blow a gasket being stressed around so many fatties in this world? :lmao:
 
Just curious, what was the reason. If it is TMI, it's ok.

It would seem that with no other adverse health factors he/she should not have a reason to decline this....

Did you try to get a second opinion?

My guess is it's because the poster says she does not have any health problems that are related to weight:

My blood pressure is great, my blood sugar is normal, my cholestrol is in the perfect range, and all in all I'm in good health. I have no other issues than being overweight.

Weight-loss surgeries, like any surgery, have risks. According to the Mayo Clinic gastric bypass surgery has a 1 in 200 to 1 in 300 risk of death! I believe the lap band is significantly less risky--more like 1 in 2000--but still not without risk.

For comparison, I'm finding numbers saying open heart surgery has a 1 in 100 to 5 in 100 risk of death in the 30 days after surgery. Risk of death for a tonsilectomy is more like 1 in 10,000. Risk of death for a C-section is about 1 in 2500.

Because these surgeries do risk death (and can involve serious medical complications short of death) they aren't just handing them out to any fat person on the street. (Though I do suspect that the many people would gladly take a 1 in 200, 1 in 100, 1 in 50, possibly 1 in 10 risk of immediate death so they could stop being fat--I would have taken it for a good part of my childhood/teenage years. Not for any health related reason, of course, since it would be absolutely ridiculous to take a 1 in 10 chance of immediate death just to ward off some potential complications of obesity which would take years to surface. But luckily the medical community won't let you risk your life just because you'd rather be dead than fat.)

I would think one would have to have some serious obesity related health problems to have a 1 in 200 to 1 in 2000 chance of dying in the next month. Thus, as far as I know, merely being fat or obese does *not* make one a candidate for these types of surgeries. One either has to have serious demonstrated obesity-related health problems or have a BMI which is above 40 (obesity starts at 30).

So I don't see why the poster needs a second opinion given that she has no health problems unless she has a BMI significantly above 40. That is standard medical protocol.
 
Be careful who you point a finger at, I have a close friend that always found it very funny that I was fat, and now 5 years later she is as big or one might even say bigger than me and I can't help but feel sorry for her because she had to learn the hard way that sometimes your health such as your thyroid can really play a part in your weight, even if you were once thin and never started overeatting, and still eat what you consider healthy foods.
 
Well it seems that I'm not the only one who lets "little" things annoy them.
 
But luckily the medical community won't let you risk your life just because you'd rather be dead than fat.)

If this is the reason, that makes sense.

Too bad the "Cosmetic Surgery Industry" does not have the same philosophy. (ooops. slight hijack. sorry.)
 
Just to be clear, many figures reporting that fat people are a bane on insurance are based soely on computer models. Let's not even talk about how some of the studies use BMI as a reason for disease in fat people, but then don't explain how skinny people suffer from the same conditions. Furthermore, they don't take into account inflation or technological advances that make all health costs rise, not just those for fat people.

The most recent study of actual living people showed that healthy people who live a long time cost far more than unhealthy people who suffer from things like heart disease or diabetes.
http://medicine.plosjournals.org/pe...ocument&doi=10.1371/journal.pmed.0050029&ct=1
"Although effective obesity prevention leads to a decrease in costs of obesity-related diseases, this decrease is offset by cost increases due to diseases unrelated to obesity in life-years gained. Obesity prevention may be an important and cost-effective way of improving public health, but it is not a cure for increasing health expenditure"
 
This is one of those times when I'm tempted to start a thread expressing my great concern about thin people.......how worried I am for their overall health. After all, I'm certain thin people weather an extended illness far worse than my fat friends.....and I'm absolutely sure thin people suffer from the cold more than me and my fat friends do. I really do worry about all the thin people in the world and I think they and their foolhearty thinness puts a substantial strain on our medical resources.

:p ;) :lmao:
 
Name ONE overweight person who does NOT know that. They know it more than you ever will.

It's asinine and ignorant to assume that anyone with this albatross has no clue, they get told it by society MINUTEly. Not daily, not hourly, every single minute of the day.

Acceptance is not an acceptance of just dealing with it, it's being accepted for being a human being. They may be working on it, they may work on it in the future but they deserve the acceptance of being a human being.

God forbid lets not forget to remind them again so they can straighten up and fly right... :idea:

(donning my flame suit...)

For starters, how about the young women I see often with their muffin tops hanging over their jeans? How about the young women I see with exposed midriffs with bellies hanging out? How about the heavy women I see wearing outfits that are not in the least flattering to their figures. Are these people secretly hating the way they look? I think you'd be surprised that there are some women who are OK with their size. Whatever that may be. Some ethnic groups PREFER bigger.

And no, I don't think society is hounding them every single minute of the day.
 
This is one of those times when I'm tempted to start a thread expressing my great concern about thin people.......how worried I am for their overall health. After all, I'm certain thin people weather an extended illness far worse than my fat friends.....and I'm absolutely sure thin people suffer from the cold more than me and my fat friends do. I really do worry about all the thin people in the world and I think they and their foolhearty thinness puts a substantial strain on our medical resources.

:p ;) :lmao:

Actually, I'm pretty sure some of the recent studies have found that the ideal BMI in terms of longevity is in the current "overweight. So yes, there is some evidence that being "underweight" and "normal" is actually less healthy than being a little bit overweight.

So, if fat-acceptance (you know, treating fat people like people instead of worthless unloveable pieces of crap to be made fun of) is bad, then I suppose thin and normal acceptance must be bad too. Hence, we ought to start treating thin and normal people like we treat fat people in hopes that it will motivate them to gain a few pounds.
 
Actually, I'm pretty sure some of the recent studies have found that the ideal BMI in terms of longevity is in the current "overweight. So yes, there is some evidence that being "underweight" and "normal" is actually less healthy than being a little bit overweight.

So, if fat-acceptance (you know, treating fat people like people instead of worthless unloveable pieces of crap to be made fun of) is bad, then I suppose thin and normal acceptance must be bad too. Hence, we ought to start treating thin and normal people like we treat fat people in hopes that it will motivate them to gain a few pounds.

Actually, that isn't true;
http://healthscience.org/index.php?...u-pt-2&catid=102:jeff-novicks-blog&Itemid=267
written by j.novick
Monday, 21 July 2008 00:00

To continue where we left off in our discussion of body weight, disease risk and longevity...

When studies have tried to factor out these other issues, we see lower disease rates and a lower mortality rate at BMIs in the 18.5 to 22 range, depending on the study & how they grouped the subjects

In the following study, we see that a BMI between 18.5 and 22 may be best for lowering the risk of disease.

"Impact of Overweight on the Risk of Developing Common Chronic Diseases During a 10-Year Period Arch Intern Med. 2001;161:1581-1586

Conclusions: During 10 years of follow-up, the incidence of diabetes, gallstones, hypertension, heart disease, colon cancer, and stroke (men only) increased with degree of overweight in both men and women. Adults who were overweight but not obese (ie, BMI 25.0 to BMI 29.9) were at significantly increased risk of developing numerous health conditions. Moreover, the dose-response relationship between BMI and the risk of developing chronic diseases was evident even among adults in the upper half of the healthy weight range (ie, BMI of 22.0-24.9), suggesting that adults should try to maintain a BMI between 18.5 and 21.9 to minimize their risk of disease.

The above recommendations are especially important as they come from a ten-year follow-up (1986-1996) of middle-aged women in the Nurses' Health Study and men in the Health Professionals Follow-up Study, two very large and respected epidemiological studies.

This large 5 year study found similar results:

Ajani UA, Lotufo PA, Gaziano JM, Lee IM, Spelsberg A, Buring JE, Willett WC, Manson JE. Body mass index and mortality among US male physicians. Ann Epidemiol. 2004 Nov;14(10):731-739. PMID: 15519894

“We analyzed the association between body mass index (BMI) and both all-cause and cause-specific mortality among 85,078 men aged 40 to 84 years from the Physicians' Health Study enrollment cohort. … Among never smokers, in multivariate analyses adjusted for age, alcohol intake, and physical activity, the relative risks of all-cause mortality increased in a stepwise fashion with increasing BMI… Higher levels of BMI were also strongly related to increased risk of cardiovascular mortality, regardless of physical activity level (P for trend, <0.01). CONCLUSIONS: All-cause and cardiovascular mortality was directly related to BMI among middle-aged and elderly men. Advancing age did not attenuate the increased risk of death associated with obesity. Lean men (BMI<20) did not have excess mortality, regardless of age.”

We also see similar recommendatons from the following study...

Pinel JP, Assanand S, Lehman DR. Hunger, eating, and ill health. Am Psychol. 2000 Oct;55(10):1105-16. PMID: 11080830

"Most notably, the results revealed a positive correlation between body-mass index and mortality, with the lowest mortality rate occurring among those nurses with body-mass indices below 19-that is, among those nurses weighing at least 15% below the average weight of U.S. women of a similar age and at least 10% below their recommended weights according to the widely used Metropolitan Life Insurance Company Table of 1983. Furthermore, negative correlations were observed between body-mass index and various measures of health: Diabetes, gall stones, hypertension, and nonfatal myocardial infarction were all less frequent in the leanest nurses than in the normal-weight or overweight nurses. Apparently, the various health advantages of a low body-mass index had not been detected in previous studies (e.g., Tuomilehto et al., 1987) because they had not controlled for cigarette smoking."

A twenty year prospective study found that “Average-adulthood BMI appears to be an appropriate predictor of mortality risk, provided baseline BMI is used as a covariate. Among non-elderly persons, being leaner meant a lower mortality risk, down to the lowest category of leanness in the study: [BMI < 20].”
 
Unless you are 4 feet tall, 140 lbs is *not* "pretty heavy". ;)

That's what I was about to say. At 140 pounds and standing at 5'5 inches, it seems the only way you wouldn't look nice would be if you had zero muscle tone. I met a girl once who was 5'5 and 150 pounds and she was hot, she was pure muscle though, if I had guessed at her weight I would have thought she was 125.

You know what? Some people just don't like fat people, they make them uncomfortable or something. I know fat people who take care of themselves and I know fat people who eat themselves into oblivion. I also know skinny people who don't take care of themselves at all, they just won the gene pool lottery.

I hate these threads because they just make the overweight people who already take care of themselves feel bad, and the people who don't care that they're eating themselves into an early grave still don't care.

There are also medical reasons why some people are overweight, but I don't even want to go there.
 
To clarify from my earlier post. My doctor would not give me the lap band because, I'm heathly. She feels the risks of the surgery are far more dangerous than my weight. She feels that I only want it for cosmetic purposes only. If I am as heathly as the tests say I am, then it would be for cosmetic reasons only. I don't want a 2nd opinion. I'm sure I could find someone to cut on me if I try hard enough.
 
Be careful who you point a finger at, I have a close friend that always found it very funny that I was fat, and now 5 years later she is as big or one might even say bigger than me and I can't help but feel sorry for her because she had to learn the hard way that sometimes your health such as your thyroid can really play a part in your weight, even if you were once thin and never started overeatting, and still eat what you consider healthy foods.

I love karma. When I was a child, I was a little chubby. By today's standards, nobody would have batted an eyelash at me, but up until puberty when I thinned out nicely, I was chubby. I had a cousin who dearly loved to tease me and call me "Jumbo."

Guess who got fat and lost most of his hair in his middle age? :rolleyes1

Normally I wouldn't take the least bit of joy in something like that, but he was downright mean about it. Just hateful. So I can't help myself.
 
Actually, that isn't true;

It all depends on which studies you look at. I believe the one that started the recent controversy over the low end of the overweight category was: Romero-Corral A, Montori VM, Somers VK, et al. Association of bodyweight with total mortality and with cardiovascular events in coronary artery disease: A systematic review of cohort studies. Lancet 2006; 368: 666-678. This was published after the articles you mentioned.

From the abstract:
patients with a low body-mass index (BMI) (ie, <20) had an increased relative risk (RR) for total mortality (RR=1.37 [95% CI 1.32-1.43), and cardiovascular mortality (1.45 [1.16-1.81]), overweight (BMI 25-29.9) had the lowest risk for total mortality (0.87 [0.81-0.94]) and cardiovascular mortality (0.88 [0.75-1.02]) compared with those for people with a normal BMI. Obese patients (BMI 30-35) had no increased risk for total mortality (0.93 [0.85-1.03]) or cardiovascular mortality (0.97 [0.82-1.15]). Patients with severe obesity (> or =35) did not have increased total mortality (1.10 [0.87-1.41]) but they had the highest risk for cardiovascular mortality (1.88 [1.05-3.34]). INTERPRETATION: The better outcomes for cardiovascular and total mortality seen in the overweight and mildly obese groups could not be explained by adjustment for confounding factors. These findings could be explained by the lack of discriminatory power of BMI to differentiate between body fat and lean mass.

I'm not saying this study is right and the others are wrong. (But it is a study that conflicts with the conventional view and it was published in one of the top peer reviewed medical journals. I would think similarly designed studies would be in order to see if this is just a fluke or what.) I'm just saying, depending on what studies you look to, you get a very different picture of things.

For instance, here's an interesting article I just happened to come upon about "normal weight obesity"--http://www.mayoclinic.org/news2008-rst/4738.html.
Normal Weight Obesity: An Emerging Risk Factor for Heart and Metabolic Problems

Thursday, March 27, 2008

PRESENTATION TIME
Tuesday, April 1, 2008, 8 a.m. CDT
American College of Cardiology Annual Scientific Session

CHICAGO — More than half of American adults considered to have normal body weight in America have high body fat percentages — greater than 20 percent for men and 30 percent for women — as well as heart and metabolic disturbances, new Mayo Clinic research shows. The finding conflicts with the widely held belief that maintaining a normal weight automatically guards against disorders such as high levels of circulating blood fats and a tendency to develop metabolic syndrome, which often leads to type 2 diabetes.

The researchers defined "normal weight" by body mass index (BMI). They found that people with normal BMI who had the highest percentage of body fat were also those who had metabolic disturbances linked to heart disease. The researchers use the phrase "normal weight obesity" to describe this new type of patient at risk for metabolism problems and risk factors for heart disease, but who rates as "normal" on standard weight charts. They defined normal weight obesity as a condition of having a normal BMI with high body fat percentage.

I've never even heard this term before. You hear obesity, obesity, BMI, BMI, but this seems to indicate that it isn't just BMI or obesity that matters, but rather percentage of body fat. If we shouldn't accept fat people because it's unhealthy to be fat, then (assuming this research holds up) we shouldn't accept normal sized people who have too high a percentage of body fat either.
 
it isn't just BMI or obesity that matters, but rather percentage of body fat.

I have (anecdotally) always felt this was the most important measurement.

I think BMI is fatally flawed because it only measures weight vs height rather than composition of the body. We have a guy in our department that has about 2 ounces of body fat, benches about 400 pounds (really), but because he is all muscle (which is heavier than fat) and is relatively short, his BMI is close to 30.

He had to get an MD's clearance to actually get his job.
 
I
I've never even heard this term before. You hear obesity, obesity, BMI, BMI, but this seems to indicate that it isn't just BMI or obesity that matters, but rather percentage of body fat. If we shouldn't accept fat people because it's unhealthy to be fat, then (assuming this research holds up) we shouldn't accept normal sized people who have too high a percentage of body fat either.

Normal sized people with a high percentage of abdominal fat are at risk as well. I am bit confused by the verb "shouldn't accept". No one should be "rejected" but we shouldn't pretend that being overweight is healthy when it isn't.
Excess Fat Around the Waist May Increase Death Risk For Women

Women who carry excess fat around their waists were at greater risk of dying early from cancer or heart disease than were women with smaller waistlines, even if they were of normal weight, reported researchers from Harvard and the National Institutes of Health.

Previous studies have shown that the tendency to deposit fat around the waist increases the risk for health problems. The current study is the largest, most comprehensive of its kind undertaken to show that accumulation of abdominal fat can increase the risk of death.

he researchers examined the cause of death for all women who died over the course of the study. In total, 3,507 deaths occurred — of these, 1,748 were due to cancer and 751 were due to heart disease.

The researchers discovered that women with greater waist circumferences were more likely to die prematurely, particularly from heart disease, when compared to women with smaller waists. For example, women with waist size equal to or greater than 35 inches were approximately twice as likely to die of heart disease as were women with a waist size less than 28 inches, regardless of their body mass index. Similarly, women with a waist size equal to or greater than 35 inches also were twice as likely to die of cancer as were women with a waist size less than 28 inches.

Women who had a greater waist circumference and were also obese were at the greatest risk of premature death. Researchers determined if a woman was overweight by calculating her body mass index (BMI), a measure of a person’s weight in relation to height. BMI is used to estimate the proportion of a person’s weight that derives from body fat. A BMI between 18.5 and 24.9 is considered healthy. A BMI of 30.0 - 39.9 is regarded as obese.

Greater waist circumference is a sign of collecting excess fat around one’s midsection, called abdominal obesity. According to the Clinical Guidelines on the Identification, Evaluation and Treatment of Overweight and Obesity in Adults published by NHLBI in cooperation with NIDDK in 1998, a healthy waist limit for women is 35 inches and, for men, 40 inches. Waist circumference is determined by measuring around the waist at the navel line. The NHLBI lists information on waist circumference and BMI at http://www.nhlbi.nih.gov/health/public/heart/obesity/lose_wt/risk.htm

In 2004, over one-half of U.S. adults had abdominal obesity by these standards, said Dr. Zhang.
 


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