FastPass of the Future? Will DVC be a segment?
- Thread starter kathleena
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OneMoreTry
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In the future FastPasses will require a 666 on the forehead.
keishashadow
Proud Redhead...yes, I have some bananas!
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On occasion, the FastPass machine does give out "bonus/extra" fastpasses for the given attraction at a later time. Not sure if they're trying a form of crowd control or whether it's a perc 
With much fanfare, WDW is touting how inexpensive it is to visit on-site (MYW base tickets, AS resorts, etc.). Heck, they're even offering to haul you back & forth "free". A captive audience can't spend any of those vacation dollars off-site.
Call me cynical, but the next shoe to drop will be the new FP system. Remember the demise of early entry and the "replacement character caravan" fiasco?
If the proposed new FP system is based on how much your on-site accommodations cost, I do hope the DVC's are placed in the Deluxe category. I assume they'd also consider in park spending for people staying off site (tickets, meals, purchases, etc.) to even the playing field.
My heart belongs to Disney, BUT it sure was nice to have FOTL @ Universal. It is my understanding that during peak season, the privledge is limited to 1 FOTL for each ride until 3:00 p.m. With standard available discounts, the room rates @ Loews were less expensive than many of the deluxe offerings @ WDW. Especially when you compare points versus their rate for Friday & Saturday nights.
Just when you think you've got WDW all figured out, they throw another curve - does keep things interesting.
With much fanfare, WDW is touting how inexpensive it is to visit on-site (MYW base tickets, AS resorts, etc.). Heck, they're even offering to haul you back & forth "free". A captive audience can't spend any of those vacation dollars off-site.
Call me cynical, but the next shoe to drop will be the new FP system. Remember the demise of early entry and the "replacement character caravan" fiasco?
If the proposed new FP system is based on how much your on-site accommodations cost, I do hope the DVC's are placed in the Deluxe category. I assume they'd also consider in park spending for people staying off site (tickets, meals, purchases, etc.) to even the playing field.
My heart belongs to Disney, BUT it sure was nice to have FOTL @ Universal. It is my understanding that during peak season, the privledge is limited to 1 FOTL for each ride until 3:00 p.m. With standard available discounts, the room rates @ Loews were less expensive than many of the deluxe offerings @ WDW. Especially when you compare points versus their rate for Friday & Saturday nights.
Just when you think you've got WDW all figured out, they throw another curve - does keep things interesting.
I think it is important for a business to consider all angles when considering changes like this. There's nothing inherently faulty about providing priority for certain guests over others. It works very effectively in many cases. I do worry about where we DVC members would land in such a situation. We've always been told that, except for housekeeping, we'll be treated as any other guest in our hotel. I suspect Disney will adhere to that, certain as long as they hope to sell new DVC memberships. It might be worth worrying about if Disney ever stops building DVC resorts.
On the Walt Disney World home page, right now, "Home away from Home" resorts is listed below the Value resorts (in the "Resorts" menu). Same story on the Resorts Overview Page: http://disneyworld.disney.go.com/wdw/resorts/resortOverview?id=ResortOverviewPage
On the Walt Disney World home page, right now, "Home away from Home" resorts is listed below the Value resorts (in the "Resorts" menu). Same story on the Resorts Overview Page: http://disneyworld.disney.go.com/wdw/resorts/resortOverview?id=ResortOverviewPage
Doc and Family
DIS, DVC, and Disney...To Infinity and Beyond...
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- 509
For what it's worth, these types of passes do already exist.
One of my wife's best friends just got back from WDW.
They added on points to their contract--no big deal right?
When the van dropped them back off at the Poly, where they were staying, they got off with another family, who bought points at the SSR de novo.
They mentioned that they had forgotten something at the sales center and went back to get it. They also mentioned that they were on their way out and wanted to know if my friends would be interested in fast passes that were good all day and on every ride. Who would say no? So they said thanks and used them--fast pass line for everything and no one ever collected the tickets from them.
They were a little miffed that the other family was given these to use after their initial purchase, and they were given nothing after their second add-on.
Still, it is all speculation, but with enough evidence of possible credence that it deserves watching, but not excessive worry at this point. I think it may be wise to contact the powers that be at DVC and let them know how we, as members, expect to be included in this IF it does happen.
To exclude DVC would, IMHO, hurt sales tremendously. Why would someone buy into DVC and take frequent trips and spend thousands and thousands of dollars to stand in line while watching the GF, PR, CR guests get the FPs?
True, we are captive--to some extent. But there are a fair number of DVC members who spend a lot of money there. I think it would be better to be proactive and start contacting people at DVC and let them know we expect to be included and treated like Deluxe resort guests, instead of trying to be reactive to change something that we may not like.
I may be way off base, but that's my $0.02 worth. The best defense is a good offense--so let's go on the offensive and start contacting those at DVC who need to hear us.
Have a great day everyone!
One of my wife's best friends just got back from WDW.
They added on points to their contract--no big deal right?
When the van dropped them back off at the Poly, where they were staying, they got off with another family, who bought points at the SSR de novo.
They mentioned that they had forgotten something at the sales center and went back to get it. They also mentioned that they were on their way out and wanted to know if my friends would be interested in fast passes that were good all day and on every ride. Who would say no? So they said thanks and used them--fast pass line for everything and no one ever collected the tickets from them.
They were a little miffed that the other family was given these to use after their initial purchase, and they were given nothing after their second add-on.
Still, it is all speculation, but with enough evidence of possible credence that it deserves watching, but not excessive worry at this point. I think it may be wise to contact the powers that be at DVC and let them know how we, as members, expect to be included in this IF it does happen.
To exclude DVC would, IMHO, hurt sales tremendously. Why would someone buy into DVC and take frequent trips and spend thousands and thousands of dollars to stand in line while watching the GF, PR, CR guests get the FPs?
True, we are captive--to some extent. But there are a fair number of DVC members who spend a lot of money there. I think it would be better to be proactive and start contacting people at DVC and let them know we expect to be included and treated like Deluxe resort guests, instead of trying to be reactive to change something that we may not like.
I may be way off base, but that's my $0.02 worth. The best defense is a good offense--so let's go on the offensive and start contacting those at DVC who need to hear us.
Have a great day everyone!
I can see Disney trying this while the crowds are huge and tourism is great but if/when things slow down, as a cyclical industry like tourism does, the concept may have offended a lot of off-site and value guests.
Everyone pays for an admission ticket and I think everyone should have an equal chance at getting a FP for an attraction. We'd all like to think we're special but for those who really have to save and scrimp to afford a trip to Disney, being able to enjoy those highly desirable attractions may be more meaningful than for those who can say, "OK, I didn't get to ride TOT this trip, I'll come down again in four months and do it." One of the bus drivers told me that Disney has figured that the average family of four spends about $5600 for a week at WDW, and I'm not sure that includes the airfare. That's a lot of money. You ought to be able to get the FP for that.
I don't think that this is what Walt had in mind.
Everyone pays for an admission ticket and I think everyone should have an equal chance at getting a FP for an attraction. We'd all like to think we're special but for those who really have to save and scrimp to afford a trip to Disney, being able to enjoy those highly desirable attractions may be more meaningful than for those who can say, "OK, I didn't get to ride TOT this trip, I'll come down again in four months and do it." One of the bus drivers told me that Disney has figured that the average family of four spends about $5600 for a week at WDW, and I'm not sure that includes the airfare. That's a lot of money. You ought to be able to get the FP for that.
I don't think that this is what Walt had in mind.
Just to keep things in perspective, I don't think anyone is talking about eliminating FastPass altogether for on-site guests. If I understand the source document correctly, those staying at Deluxe resorts might be able to hold multiple FPs at once, or have an almost immediate return time. Meanwhile those at Value resorts would have a system closer to what exists today, with a more distant return time printed on the ticket.
If anything, the ones who stand to lose appear to be those staying off-site. The trade-off is a much better perk for those staying at Deluxe resorts, and a somewhat better perk for those staying at Moderate resorts.
If anything, the ones who stand to lose appear to be those staying off-site. The trade-off is a much better perk for those staying at Deluxe resorts, and a somewhat better perk for those staying at Moderate resorts.
Northern Lights
Mouseketeer
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$5600!!! We have always stayed between 6-8 nights at Deluxe hotels, bought a few pictures, done at least 2 character meals and at least one other nice dinner, spent $200-$300 on souvenirs and have never come close to spending $5000 on a WDW vacation. In fact, we have never spent more than $3200. Either Disney's market study is wrong, or we have been missing out! We are not big drinkers and eaters, and we always have a quick breakfast of cereal bars and fruit (which is what we eat at home plus we can get to the parks at opening easier), so that might help keep our costs down, but $5600 seems way off base.
Back to the original topic, I view FPs as an essential part of my park touring plans. Now, I don't need an all-day FP good for every attraction, the current system works just fine for us. We enjoy leaving the parks in the early afternoon and returning after dinner for a couple of hours. Thus, we use at most 4-5 sets of FP per day, but they are vital to keeping our wait times down to less than 5-10 minutes per attraction.
We bought DVC b/c we wanted to stay at the deluxe resorts w/o having the hassle of finding this or that code, plus we wanted the kitchenette for the baby. We may use the points for a 1BR if we decide to only go once per year, but we will never cook full meals on vacation so we have zero need for a full kitchen (yes, the master suite and laundry room are lovely but we can "rough it" for a week if it means squeezing an extra week of vacation per year). If DVC members were ever relegated to off-site status or value resort status with respect to use of the FP system, we would sell our contract or always rent out the points and stay exclusively at the deluxes.
Now, all that being said, I think this is much ado about nothing at this point. BUT, if Disney is trying to figure out how to beat Universal at its FOTL game, then we could be in trouble. I think Disney tried with the Extra Magic Hours and perhaps they are not seeing the increase in on-site bookings that they thought that might generate. I think ME is also an attempt to increase the on-site bookings. Disney's problem is that they have many more rooms to fill than Universal. Thus, Universal can afford to have a meaningful FOTL pass since there is currently a limited number of on-site guests based on availability. If every Disney on-site guest got a FOTL pass, it might only create a meaningless second queue. I have never stayed at a Universal hotel nor been to a Universal theme park - perhaps when the kids get older but certainly not anytime soon - but it is my understanding that Universal only has 3 hotels and each one is comparable (in terms of price, NOT amenities, etc. as I know some have strong opinions on this) to a deluxe Disney hotel. Point being, if Disney is trying to offer a FOTL type perk to compete with Universal, it does make sense that only the deluxe hotels would receive it.
One question I would like answered though is Disney really having trouble with on-site occupancy? And if so, is it spread amongst all levels of resorts, or at a particular level? Based on my limited experience in trying to book vacations, the deluxe resorts seem to be doing pretty well and if so, I'm not sure we need to worry too much about this situation.
One final editorial comment, I understand Disney's desire to "democratize" the on-site properties with values and moderates, although I think the purpose was to simply capture the business of those staying at the chains and independents just outside the gate. That being said, I know Cadillac tried to "democratize" its luxury lines in the 80's, a strategy that totally backfired and enabled the German and Japanese luxury lines to come onto Cadillac's traditional turf and trounce the pants off of it. When I was a kid, we never stayed at Disney b/c we either couldn't afford it or my parents did not want to pay for the premium. Now, the American car industry doesn't understand that it is the product, stupid. IMO Disney still has a fantastic product - but it can't rest on its laurels. Spruce up those deluxe hotels, ensure the level of Disney customer service remains magical, keep your attractions family based but on the cutting edge of technology (Soarin, Philharmagic, etc.) and people will come. Try to save a few bucks here and there - like building Six Flags, carnival level trash parks like California Adventure, alienate your most loyal customers like DVC members with exclusionary FP gimmicks, and watch yourself become the Cadillac of the theme park entertainment industry.
Back to the original topic, I view FPs as an essential part of my park touring plans. Now, I don't need an all-day FP good for every attraction, the current system works just fine for us. We enjoy leaving the parks in the early afternoon and returning after dinner for a couple of hours. Thus, we use at most 4-5 sets of FP per day, but they are vital to keeping our wait times down to less than 5-10 minutes per attraction.
We bought DVC b/c we wanted to stay at the deluxe resorts w/o having the hassle of finding this or that code, plus we wanted the kitchenette for the baby. We may use the points for a 1BR if we decide to only go once per year, but we will never cook full meals on vacation so we have zero need for a full kitchen (yes, the master suite and laundry room are lovely but we can "rough it" for a week if it means squeezing an extra week of vacation per year). If DVC members were ever relegated to off-site status or value resort status with respect to use of the FP system, we would sell our contract or always rent out the points and stay exclusively at the deluxes.
Now, all that being said, I think this is much ado about nothing at this point. BUT, if Disney is trying to figure out how to beat Universal at its FOTL game, then we could be in trouble. I think Disney tried with the Extra Magic Hours and perhaps they are not seeing the increase in on-site bookings that they thought that might generate. I think ME is also an attempt to increase the on-site bookings. Disney's problem is that they have many more rooms to fill than Universal. Thus, Universal can afford to have a meaningful FOTL pass since there is currently a limited number of on-site guests based on availability. If every Disney on-site guest got a FOTL pass, it might only create a meaningless second queue. I have never stayed at a Universal hotel nor been to a Universal theme park - perhaps when the kids get older but certainly not anytime soon - but it is my understanding that Universal only has 3 hotels and each one is comparable (in terms of price, NOT amenities, etc. as I know some have strong opinions on this) to a deluxe Disney hotel. Point being, if Disney is trying to offer a FOTL type perk to compete with Universal, it does make sense that only the deluxe hotels would receive it.
One question I would like answered though is Disney really having trouble with on-site occupancy? And if so, is it spread amongst all levels of resorts, or at a particular level? Based on my limited experience in trying to book vacations, the deluxe resorts seem to be doing pretty well and if so, I'm not sure we need to worry too much about this situation.
One final editorial comment, I understand Disney's desire to "democratize" the on-site properties with values and moderates, although I think the purpose was to simply capture the business of those staying at the chains and independents just outside the gate. That being said, I know Cadillac tried to "democratize" its luxury lines in the 80's, a strategy that totally backfired and enabled the German and Japanese luxury lines to come onto Cadillac's traditional turf and trounce the pants off of it. When I was a kid, we never stayed at Disney b/c we either couldn't afford it or my parents did not want to pay for the premium. Now, the American car industry doesn't understand that it is the product, stupid. IMO Disney still has a fantastic product - but it can't rest on its laurels. Spruce up those deluxe hotels, ensure the level of Disney customer service remains magical, keep your attractions family based but on the cutting edge of technology (Soarin, Philharmagic, etc.) and people will come. Try to save a few bucks here and there - like building Six Flags, carnival level trash parks like California Adventure, alienate your most loyal customers like DVC members with exclusionary FP gimmicks, and watch yourself become the Cadillac of the theme park entertainment industry.
As Northern Lights alluded to, as far as we know, what Walt had in mind was all deluxe resorts plus the campgrounds -- that's it. The moderates were added to the master plan long after Walt was dead.fkj2 said:
Remember, what Walt had in mind for EPCOT is a far cry from what it is. I don't believe there is much relevance in relying on what Walt had in mind for much of anything, any more. The directors of the Disney Company have an obligation to advance the Disney legacy, not slave themselves to the boundaries of what Walt wanted.
Granny
Yeah, I'm a guy
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- 14,437
I agree with this post 200%.pplasky said:
2nd class citizen is the very phrase I have used to describe visiting Universal parks as an off-site guest.
With Disney resorts at record-setting occupancy rates, I don't see why Disney would want to stir up this hornet nest. I agree that this is probably a rumor at best. At least, that's what I'm hoping.
Granny
Yeah, I'm a guy
- Joined
- Jul 25, 2001
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- 14,437
I agree with this post 200%.pplasky said:
2nd class citizen is the very phrase I have used to describe visiting Universal parks as an off-site guest.
With Disney resorts at record-setting occupancy rates, I don't see why Disney would want to stir up this hornet nest. I agree that this is probably a rumor at best. At least, that's what I'm hoping.
Are you kidding me? I have been going to DL back in the day 1959 !! Do I feel sorry for those that could not go way back then. NO, I don't think so.I also don't feel bad for those that say its a right to go to WDW. Please feel free to flame me. I really don't care anymore. 
Granny
Yeah, I'm a guy
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- 14,437
More than most companies, Disney relies on its goodwill to command the pricing and demand for its products.
I'd hate to be the guy they point to next year and say "So you had to try that ridiculous Fast Pass charging system and screwed up our positive occupancy and park guest numbers!"
There's something to be said for business momentum, and for having the upper hand over competition. To me, this would be a PR disaster.
Granny said:
I wasn't aware that occupancy levels were that high, but even still, occupancy at WDW is always tempered by the necessity for discount programs to actually fill those rooms. I'm sure they'd like nothing more than to be able to decrease the number of rooms offered via discount codes (AP, AAA, etc.)
It highly unlikely that such a change would have that kind of impact, anyway.Granny said:I'd hate to be the guy they point to next year and say "So you had to try that ridiculous Fast Pass charging system and screwed up our positive occupancy and park guest numbers!"
We'll just have to agree to disagree there.Granny said:
Granny said:
I think the key will be how much or little they change the current FastPass system, while expanding it for some guests. There are a lot of examples of perks available to different select groups which don't equate to a "PR disaster":
* Extra Magic Hours available only to Disney resort guests.
* E-Ride Nights available only to Disney resort guests.
* Animal Kingdom tours available only to AKL Concierge guests.
* Concierge lounges available only to Concierge guests.
* Preferential seating at shows and parades included with some trip packages.
* Attraction preview events limited to AP and DVC.
* DVC discounts like the Golf package and AP discount.
* AP holder discount programs.
* Florida resident discount programs.
* DDE card available only to AP holders and residents.
* Instant FastPasses given as perk for DVC tour.
From a purely business standpoint, I think it's a brilliant idea. There's no question that it will cause increases in resort occupancy levels--particularly if FastPass is eliminated or scaled-back for off-site guests.
Whether it is to be a "PR disaster" or not depends on a lot of factors that we are years away from being able to judge.
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